Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

what is with you and liberals this game

Some Hard Rock Cafe show character.

[El Barto]

No, but you are, at least, right, about me being quite a character.

[Manasi]

How is his scum game then?

Sorry about talking around you, I'll try not to. It happens when you expect others to only be around in bursts, I suppose. I tend to only address people directly when they have a more constant thread presence. My bad.

Appreciate it

Can u RDS list manasi

Doesn't that mean reads

Not until I get back to Kamil's and even then idk if I'll be awake/have a computer

[Jabbz]

These are the only times Jabbz interacts with or mentions Csargo all game. It's especially worth noting because he gives a fairly sizeable impressions post earlier on (here) that doesn't mention him at all.

This is disingenuous at best. I don't talk about most people this game, as my level of interaction has been exceedingly low. Further, in that post I only mention 5 people, out of the 13 in game at that moment. This is my problem with your arguments to date, you are forcing facts to fit your narrative, rather than shaping your narrative around the facts. Town has no need to do that.

[Jabbz]

Thoughts on Zack/Csargo/Monty?

Zack I read as town. I wasn't overly impressed with Choxorn's case, but I also wasn't overly bothered by it. It was day 1 (I think?) and not much was substantial. Zack's play however has rung heavily town. He seems calm and collected, and appears to be following leads wherever they go, as opposed to having a destination in mind already and following whatever gets you there. To me that is good town behavior.

Csargo I know has been under heavy scrutiny, but to be honest I've not followed the arguments against him as thoroughly as I should have. He's on my list to ISO, and I will likely get to him soon.

Monty I'm hedging scummy against, but I have a hard time articulating the why of it, even to myself. Something just feels off about his engagements. I know that's not a helpful answer, but it's what I've got.

[Jabbz]

Can monty or someone restate the case on barto?

My case on Barto is that he is failing to engage arguments in responses to his claims, and cherry picking in order to keep his vote on low hanging fruit (me). Someone who is genuinely looking for scum looks at all the arguments, not just ones that allow you to keep viewing the world the way you want to, especially when the fact that you missed those arguments is pointed out to you repeatedly. It's just scummy behavior.

[El Barto]

This is disingenuous at best. I don't talk about most people this game, as my level of interaction has been exceedingly low. Further, in that post I only mention 5 people, out of the 13 in game at that moment. This is my problem with your arguments to date, you are forcing facts to fit your narrative, rather than shaping your narrative around the facts. Town has no need to do that.

(…) Monty I'm hedging scummy against, but I have a hard time articulating the why of it, even to myself. Something just feels off about his engagements. I know that's not a helpful answer, but it's what I've got.

Well, if you want to compensate for your admittedly low level of interaction, you could compare Monty's behaviour during this game to that in his last mafia one (we were partners, with atpg subbing in for our final third mafiosa.

My case on Barto is that he is failing to engage arguments in responses to his claims, and cherry picking in order to keep his vote on low hanging fruit (me). Someone who is genuinely looking for scum looks at all the arguments, not just ones that allow you to keep viewing the world the way you want to, especially when the fact that you missed those arguments is pointed out to you repeatedly. It's just scummy behavior.

Besides the fact that I am not voting for you anymore, Jabbz, we can say that summy behaviour is what I do most often as town.

[Jabbz]

Well, if you want to compensate for your admittedly low level of interaction, you could compare Monty's behaviour during this game to that in his last mafia one (we were partners, with atpg subbing in for our final third mafiosa.

WTF? I don't have time to engage this game as much as I'd like, so your solution is for me to read an entire other game? That doesn't make sense in any way shape or form.

Besides the fact that I am not voting for you anymore, Jabbz, we can say that summy behaviour is what I do most often as town.

Well given that my vote isn't based on OMGUS, it doesn't matter much whether you're voting for me. As to scummy behavior, if that's your town game that sucks, but I'm working with what I have this game.

[El Barto]

WTF? I don't have time to engage this game as much as I'd like, so your solution is for me to read an entire other game? That doesn't make sense in any way shape or form.

If you have the time, read the post-game commentary (the last 1 or 2 pages). It will do you good.

[novice]

Appreciate it

You forgot to answer this though:

How is his scum game then?

I thought you wanted to chat... :/
Seriously though I'd rather hear your reads in general. Unless you have some unique insight into Zack.

[Zack]

This post makes me strongly suspect logic is vanilla town, based on the phrasing of my role pm.

I'd be pretty surprised if mafia didn't have access to some sort of vanilla town Role PM. Given personal experience with past Pizza games, and this:

9. Mafia's info
The mafia will know who they are and have powers they can safely claim. Try to brute force my game, and prepare for disappointment. They'll always have more info than you.

[Zack]

Look, you don't need to be as poisonous as an Arbok.

Reminder that Barto hinted at his role pretty early D1. Then claimed the poisoning on Manasi when it could easily have been blamed on Cuth.

If Barto's a wolf, that seems extremely reckless.

[Zack]

Though Csargo voted Viper over Barto, their interactions seem vaguely w/w, and in the QT link GH posted, Barto and Pizza discuss Barto breadcrumbing his wolf vig and then claiming it (in visor's small mafia game).

[Zack]

Don't forget this either.

Monty looks least bad out of these votes because of consistency.

[Zack]

Barto and Csargo both tried to push Champ, who I lean towards being a scapegoat rather than a wolf.

[Zack]

Tally as of post 972:

Lynch votes
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency, Logic)
2 votes: Champ (BSmith, Csargo)
2 votes: Montmorency (Zack, novice)
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto, GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz)
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Since there's no posting at night I'll do one of those cheesy "If I'm killed" speeches now.

Given the split votes right now there must be some scum in the danger zone. The split might look comfortable for scum because town is so disorganized, but it's also highly volatile and thus uncomfortable for scum (thanks to Pizza for teaching me this).

Remember this tally and subsequent vote switches when analyzing today.

Are we just ignoring the fact that auto came in with that readlist with 2 scum leans and then voted BSmith? Is that not as weird as I think it is?

Unvote: Champ, Vote:autolycus

I'm just going to blindly trust Zack on Champ I guess, plus he was here and posted so seems good.

Why are we still discussing Monty's case on GH? It's bad, I thought that was already established. Discussing it further doesn't make it more or less bad. I don't know what to say at this point really.

Zack's stock is on the rise it seems.

All this time I thought Csargo was so insistent on Auto cfd to save Monty.

Maybe he was trying to save Jabbz.

[Zack]

SV has been entirely forgettable the last two days as well, after his D1 post bonanza.

still confused why viper went all in on me for shading him and placed all his trust in csargo...

[Montmorency]

Reminder that Barto hinted at his role pretty early D1. Then claimed the poisoning on Manasi when it could easily have been blamed on Cuth.

If Barto's a wolf, that seems extremely reckless.

I asked him about it earlier in this round. He claims it wasn't breadcrumbing, that he wouldn't crumb a power before he used it.

[Zack]

I took the thunderbolt to signify Zack replacing Choxorn, no?

i guess this was some sort of awkward attempt at deflecting attention away from it? Find it kinda hard to believe wolf csargo would actually believe this, even if it was a vigkill or something that the mafia didn't do.

[Jabbz]

I'd be pretty surprised if mafia didn't have access to some sort of vanilla town Role PM. Given personal experience with past Pizza games, and this:

You're ignoring the clarification later where I talk about mindset and context.

[Jabbz]

Well I'm not sure I'm going to be around at EOD, so I'll throw my vote out now. It doesn't really seem to matter given that there is little chance CSargo isn't swinging. I still think Barto and GHC are the likely scum, and I'll stand by that. Vote: El Barto

In before someone says I'm trying to save CSargo. He's ahead by 5 votes, nothing I do could change that with 2h left.

[Zack]

Well I'm not sure I'm going to be around at EOD, so I'll throw my vote out now. It doesn't really seem to matter given that there is little chance CSargo isn't swinging. I still think Barto and GHC are the likely scum, and I'll stand by that. Vote: El Barto

In before someone says I'm trying to save CSargo. He's ahead by 5 votes, nothing I do could change that with 2h left.

Why GH? I think he is completely out of my POE.

[Zack]

I asked him about it earlier in this round. He claims it wasn't breadcrumbing, that he wouldn't crumb a power before he used it.

hmm

what are your reads at now?

[Zack]

If that is indeed the case, I will retract my admonishment of El Barto. But I cannot find the statement made by Csargo that El Barto is referencing.

@Logic

Barto's probably my favorite player of all time. Well, except Sasaki, but that's not even a fair comparison.

[Jabbz]

Why GH? I think he is completely out of my POE.

Very similar lines. He cherry picks arguments rather than chasing down the facts. Scum does that, town doesn't. You don't have to agree with my arguments, that's an important part of the game. But choosing to ignore arguments that don't allow you to support your narrative makes your narrative look fishy as heck.

[Montmorency]

hmm

what are your reads at now?

If hope we can agree at least on Barto lunch for tomorrow. Jabbz is still too high for lynch. Can't analyses presently

[Zack]

If hope we can agree at least on Barto lunch for tomorrow. Jabbz is still too high for lynch. Can't analyses presently

I don't get why you have Jabbz high at all?

[El Barto]

I think you will find me quite indigestible, Monsieur d'Montmorency. Also, your conjugation is hurtfully wrong.

[Zack]

I'm out for the day and expect to be killed tonight, so I'll leave a big post probably no one will care about once I'm dead.

----

My role is actually a little different than what I was claiming and hinting at. I'm not a standard roleblocker - instead I have 2x super roleblock (the target is blocked for three nights instead of just one).

choxorn never used an ability.

On N3, I used one on Monty. Didn't seem to be any interruption in nightkills, though considering Monty was under lot of heat, he probably wouldn't have been the one doing nightkills anyway unless his partners were in worse spots.

On N4, I used the other on Csargo. I know he's lying about blocking me because I received confirmation that Csargo was blocked last night and the subsequent two nights.

From Csargo and Monty's reactions, Monty seemed completely unaware that he was blocked at any point in time or that Csargo was blocked. Csargo's response to my softclaim made it clear that he was in fact the one whose nightkill was stopped. It was theoretically possible that Monty tried to do the kill for the wolves last night while he was still blocked and that's why it failed (though I don't know how likely that scenario is, depending on what Pizza tells the people targeted by my ability), but Csargo essentially confirmed that was not the case.

I have nothing left, I'm spent unfortunately.

----

Zack - Me. I'm town.

Csargo - Wolf. Blocked and no nightkill. Lied about roleblocking me last night. Lolcatting.

----

Novice - Very likely town. Active, prodding, top poster. He mentioned in Tokens, where he was a wolf, he was townread all game and survived to the end. I looked and saw he had less than a third as many posts in that game as he does here, so didn't bother looking into it further just for paranoid tinfoil.

Montmorency - Likely town. I think his reaction earlier today went past the point of performance art. I do have some pause for how Csargo and Monty have interacted all game, but I think Monty's just town.

GeneralHankerchief - Likely town. Spew looks good for him. Plus he looks town and I don't buy any of the arguments that have been used against him.

Champ - Lean town. He feels like a scapegoat. His posts are within his town range and I can see some of things that could indicate town mindset. It's all so absurdly low effort that I can't give any more confidence than this.

Logic - Null. Not sure how to feel about this slot. Some of his posts I've liked, some I haven't been so crazy about.

Manasi - POE. Don't like the pop in / pop out thing, it's something I've seen her do as a wolf - where she'll pop in to say hey what's up, then not really say anything and leave, repeat. She has not had the WIM she claimed.

El Barto - POE. This has been done to death. On re-read a lot of his posts rub me the wrong way. On actually looking into that one QT, claiming the poison seems in his wheelhouse. Don't forget what GH said about Barto bussing/distancing either, it's true - his thing with Jabbz is not clearing in any way.

Jabbz - POE. Kind of underwhelming all game (I don't want to hear about time constraints, this is a quality issue not quantity). He hasn't seemed overly concerned with hunting, and his GH push falls really flat. His treatment of Logic is bizarre, and being so confident about it with no paranoia is off. I think GH has made good points here.

----

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[El Barto]

I'd like to thank you for that, Zack. Especially the imagery.