Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[Csargo]

I'm enjoying this fireworks display. It's playing out beautifully.

[Csargo]

Insert slightly less old, add more cranky.

Vote: seireikhaan

I want to see how cranky he'll get.

[Sooh]

Just for you, Csargo

[novice]

I do have something I'd like to ask, @novice;, are you usually open to placing votes this early/quickly? What and how much do you think should be behind a vote?

Yes, I think you should leave as visible a trail as possible regarding your suspicions and thought processes, and get started as soon as possible. Vote early and often. Ideally you should always have a vote on your top suspect.*

For majority lynch games a bit more care may be required, I don't have much experience with that game type though.

*Generally speaking. There are acceptable exceptions, e.g. when applying pressure to specific players and when trapping.

[SeveringViper]

Not particularly, I don't remember many specifics. I guess I have a (unverbalizable) mental model of what kind of player you are, and if you do something at odds with that I might react. But of course that could then just be an error in my model.

I have you stereotyped, I guess.

A detective with a defined mental model/stereotype of something/someone can be a poor detective, indeed. So you've just said that Sooh can throw off your game. Nice to state that you have preconceptions of her in advance, but how do you plan to deal with that before it can lead to error? Are you just going to let others work on reading her?

[novice]

Please let other people answer for themselves first.

Seconded.

[SeveringViper]

Yes, I think you should leave as visible a trail as possible regarding your suspicions and thought processes, and get started as soon as possible. Vote early and often. Ideally you should always have a vote on your top suspect.*

For majority lynch games a bit more care may be required, I don't have much experience with that game type though.

*Generally speaking. There are acceptable exceptions, e.g. when applying pressure to specific players and when trapping.

Understood.

Oh, also, related to my previous post, you can start talking about Sooh now, I'd like to hear as much from you in regards to a self-admitted potential blind spot/false negative as possible. Discussion corrects blindness and errors.

[Csargo]

Just for you, Csargo

Magnificent!

[novice]

Understood.

Oh, also, related to my previous post, you can start talking about Sooh now, I'd like to hear as much from you in regards to a self-admitted potential blind spot/false negative as possible. Discussion corrects blindness and errors.

A detective with a defined mental model/stereotype of something/someone can be a poor detective, indeed. So you've just said that Sooh can throw off your game. Nice to state that you have preconceptions of her in advance, but how do you plan to deal with that before it can lead to error? Are you just going to let others work on reading her?

I had a long, on point but also witty response typed out and then my browser crashed.
In short I stereotype everyone, and everyone does that. So I'm a bit surprised to be asked to discuss Sooh specifically at this point. Generally you just have to try and compensate for bias in your estimations, and also fall back on more objective evidence such as voting records, power role results and interaction patterns.

The best process, as you allude to, is the scientific one, where you have a group of peers critiquing each other's work. Everybody's biased, but in a collective the biases might cancel out (or not - groupthink is a very real danger). Not so easy of course when the group is infiltrated by scumbags, but still.

I get the feeling my browser is about to crash again so let me share my Sooh reads in the next post.

[El Barto]

I missed this post before.

I've always wanted a big brother <3

The fireworks are there to celebrate, right?

[novice]

Meant to say also that I should probably have described myself as an interrogator and not a detective, as I'm not brilliant at drawing conclusions.

[El Barto]

Meant to say also that I should probably have described myself as an interrogator and not a detective, as I'm not brilliant at drawing conclusions.

Not(ic)ed.

[novice]

I had a long, on point but also witty response typed out and then my browser crashed.

I blame the fireworks...

[novice]

Not(ic)ed.

Zing

[SeveringViper]

I had a long, on point but also witty response typed out and then my browser crashed.
In short I stereotype everyone, and everyone does that. So I'm a bit surprised to be asked to discuss Sooh specifically at this point. Generally you just have to try and compensate for bias in your estimations, and also fall back on more objective evidence such as voting records, power role results and interaction patterns.

The best process, as you allude to, is the scientific one, where you have a group of peers critiquing each other's work. Everybody's biased, but in a collective the biases might cancel out (or not - groupthink is a very real danger). Not so easy of course when the group is infiltrated by scumbags, but still.

I get the feeling my browser is about to crash again so let me share my Sooh reads in the next post.

I asked about Sooh specifically because she's the only one you've mentioned knowing long enough to have developed a full mental model of how she acts/plays that can bias you, and she's already started posting and doing things that can be read.

Shame about your browser, but hopefully it doesn't delay your posting too much.

[El Barto]

I get the feeling my browser is about to crash again so let me share my Sooh reads in the next post.

...

[SeveringViper]

Meant to say also that I should probably have described myself as an interrogator and not a detective, as I'm not brilliant at drawing conclusions.

I second Barto, those are fairly dissimilar things to confuse.

[novice]

About Sooh. I stereotype her as the helpful, observing type, who (tries to) facilitate discussion, gathers evidence, and follows up with good insights later, not having too many strong opinions, but also rarely being wrong. Does not drive the lynch.

So she's on schedule so far but has a lot to live up to later...

That really sounds like a ridiculous stereotype now that I type it out. How does it fit, Sooh?

What is your read on Sooh, Viper?

[novice]

I second Barto, those are fairly dissimilar things to confuse.

That's not what Barto said.

[GeneralHankerchief]

So, my first thought was that novice is a bit scummy for pushing the "everyone needs to give me your own descriptions of your playstyles" thing just a bit too hard, especially as he's been on this forum before and I don't recall him doing it when he was truly new (and town) to boot. There's a couple posts in there about ideal town strategy, etc, but that's pretty easy to fake as scum.

Sooh and Viper probably not aligned.

Vote: novice

[novice]

Look, you don't need to be as poisonous as an Arbok.

Poisonous snakes are only a problem to people planning to eat them.

[novice]

So, my first thought was that novice is a bit scummy for pushing the "everyone needs to give me your own descriptions of your playstyles" thing just a bit too hard, especially as he's been on this forum before and I don't recall him doing it when he was truly new (and town) to boot. There's a couple posts in there about ideal town strategy, etc, but that's pretty easy to fake as scum.

Sooh and Viper probably not aligned.

Vote: novice

What was your second thought?

[GeneralHankerchief]

What was your second thought?

"Sooh and Viper probably not aligned."

[SeveringViper]

About Sooh. I stereotype her as the helpful, observing type, who (tries to) facilitate discussion, gathers evidence, and follows up with good insights later, not having too many strong opinions, but also rarely being wrong. Does not drive the lynch.

So she's on schedule so far but has a lot to live up to later...

That really sounds like a ridiculous stereotype now that I type it out. How does it fit, Sooh?

What is your read on Sooh, Viper?

So far, I'd agree about helpful and trying to start discussion, as her stepping in to react to what she read as my potential inexperience/lack of knowledge. She did show she puts importance on analysis and evidence when she mentioned looking forward to when I'd actually analyze things. I can't say I like her ignoring the questions I've asked in saying that, or that it still looks like she went out of her way to answer for you.

Probably, I just didn't think much about it.

^Also that she's that type of player. :P

If she is the more quiet/passive but accurate type, I'd admit I like that, but we'll see.

[SeveringViper]

That's not what Barto said.

He only said "Not(ic)ed". Granted, I'm interpreting that, but why are you saying my interpretation is wrong?

[Sooh]

About Sooh. I stereotype her as the helpful, observing type, who (tries to) facilitate discussion, gathers evidence, and follows up with good insights later, not having too many strong opinions, but also rarely being wrong. Does not drive the lynch.

So she's on schedule so far but has a lot to live up to later...

That really sounds like a ridiculous stereotype now that I type it out. How does it fit, Sooh?

What is your read on Sooh, Viper?

I mean, I can link you to a post describing my play made by someone I play with regularly, though it is a few months old.
What I do notice though is that you don't really describe any difference in terms of my town or scum play, but I'm not sure how many of either we have played together. Other than that it's sort of just a description of my personality.

[SeveringViper]

"Sooh and Viper probably not aligned."

Your second thought on novice was that I and Sooh are probably not aligned?

[Sooh]

Sooh and Viper probably not aligned.

Why would you say that? Is it unthinkable to you that we're both town already? Who is the scum then?

[Sooh]

I can't say I like her ignoring the questions I've asked in saying that, or that it still looks like she went out of her way to answer for you.

What did I miss?

[novice]

So, my first thought was that novice is a bit scummy for pushing the "everyone needs to give me your own descriptions of your playstyles" thing just a bit too hard, especially as he's been on this forum before and I don't recall him doing it when he was truly new (and town) to boot. There's a couple posts in there about ideal town strategy, etc, but that's pretty easy to fake as scum.

Because, GH, I haven't pushed that thing at all. I asked politely, once, in the opening post. The only post where I'm even close to pushing it is in post 45 in a direct response to Viper, and there I said that it was mainly a conversation starter. A multitude of players ignored my request without me complaining. I'm even voting for Raith Kemmler because he answered my request!

I've never played with these players before:
Logic
Champ
Manasi
SeveringViper
Csargo (I don't think?)
Autolycus
Raith Kemmler

So I figured it was a reasonable conversation starter. Which also might draw a scummy vote like the one you just made.