Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[Zack]

How can you tell with Manasi? She's definitely inconsistent, but I've never seen her scum and she fits with her town trends in French Revolution.

Champ OTOH feels like someone popping in to muddy the waters.

Calling her town in that game isn't really correct, it was a battle royale.

For one, she townread Csargo and could never give an actual reason.

For two, when I subbed in she talked about "the wim train arriving", then showed a total lack of any actual wim, only occasionally popping in to not really say anything.

My thought is she just coasted on people calling her town and her team wasn't in any trouble.

[novice]

The only possible alternative to Csargo is Zack. One of them is lying

How do you know that?

[Zack]

Can monty or someone restate the case on barto?

[novice]

Can monty or someone restate the case on barto?

I can restate my case, can't speak for others:

Third party: Seireikhaan

Deceased town:
Cuthillius - Poisoner
Raith Kemmler
Sooh - Roleblocker
BSmith
Autolycus

Hot takes:

Town, in no particular order:
Logic
Jabbz - Vanilla
Manasi

Leaning town:
Montmorency - Roleblocker
SeveringViper - Roleblocker
Champ

Leaning scum (more or less by PoE):
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto - Poisoner
Csargo
choxorn Zack

Did I miss any claims?

Vote: El Barto for now.

No justification whatsoever. (!)

Not true, see the bold text.

Also:

Counterwagon to Viper. And the poison.
I also don't like how he never misses an opportunity to point out that Monty is tunneling.

So basically the poisoning of Manasi and Process of Elimination. Manasi being scum would undercut both points.

[novice]

I mean, it's the same story, but vice-versa: if Csargo flips town, Zack has to die.

Same question as to Logic: Why can't they both be town?

I think he might have been trying to go for a claim battle. Knowing the night results and seeing my softish claim, he probably reckoned he had little chance of surviving the day anyways.

What's a claim battle?

[Zack]

Same question as to Logic: Why can't they both be town?

Csargo is lying. I know for a fact my action went through so I can't have been roleblocked.

Plus posts like #1400 are basically lolcatting imo. He's been painfully awkward/frozen today, and a good number of his posts are fairly lolcatty. (If you're unfamiliar, on some sites outted wolves would start posting actual lolcat pictures, so "lolcatting" has become a term for a wolf who has been outted and is basically just trolling and messing around.)

What's a claim battle?

Two people are claiming the same thing, one is scum. Most often seen in 9er and 13er cop setups, where wolves will fakeclaim cop and go into a claim battle / thunderdome with the real cop.

[Csargo]

Csargo is lying. I know for a fact my action went through so I can't have been roleblocked.

Plus posts like #1400 are basically lolcatting imo. He's been painfully awkward/frozen today, and a good number of his posts are fairly lolcatty. (If you're unfamiliar, on some sites outted wolves would start posting actual lolcat pictures, so "lolcatting" has become a term for a wolf who has been outted and is basically just trolling and messing around.)


Two people are claiming the same thing, one is scum. Most often seen in 9er and 13er cop setups, where wolves will fakeclaim cop and go into a claim battle / thunderdome with the real cop.

We're both lying. I'd try harder, but I'm tired. I thought 1400 was funny, no? THUNDERDOME!

[novice]

Csargo is lying. I know for a fact my action went through so I can't have been roleblocked.

Ok, that clarifies the situation.
Is it normal to get feedback on role blocks in Pizza's games?

[El Barto]

I'm pretty sure Barto was talking about Csargo, Logic.

If that is indeed the case, I will retract my admonishment of El Barto. But I cannot find the statement made by Csargo that El Barto is referencing.

Here you go, sir:

Barto's probably my favorite player of all time. Well, except Sasaki, but that's not even a fair comparison.

I really hope you aren't all bussing scum who got together for the sole purpose of confusing me into voting how you want. That would be evil.

Evil is the essence of being a mafioso, Monty. I would have thought that even you could spot that.

If Zack wanted to hardclaim, he would have hardclaimed.

Such as here…?

And since I'm more of a standard roleblocker, and already seeing several people with 1x block flip, Monty and Viper claiming 1x blocks was just another box to the sketchy checklist. I figured there had to be some limit to the madness for game balance reasons... three dead 1x blocks + monty + viper + my role seemed like a bit much.

I wonder how many poisoners there really are as well.

Also, since there are 10 players left and we didn't get a "this might be lylo" warning from Pizza, there's either less than four wolves and/or some third party. I think the latter is unlikely given it's a fairly small game and khaan was already a neutral. Two would be too few considering game size and all these powers running around.

So Csargo has two partners.

Remember the commandment: thou shalt not metagame in vain.

Can monty or someone restate the case on barto?

What case?

[Montmorency]

Can monty or someone restate the case on barto?

I'm just going to sum up D2 activity from Manasi, Csargo, and Barto for now. This is the first half of D2.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

D2 begins; Sooh makes case against Raith, Barto responds:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is compelling enough for me to feel sorely tempted to follow you on this vote. But it would then enable you to vote for me based on the same justification, which would be most vexing.

Conundra such as this one make life interesting.

Tell me a story Barto.

makes a few small comments about various things, interacts with GH and Sooh. Comments on his won playstyle:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Given that, when I am assigned a role in these games of the Innocent alignment, I tend to behave as a quasi-survivor, I wouldn't be too much against that.
Furthermore, it has often been pointed out that a Survivor can be forced to act as if his or her alignment were Innocent rather than Neutral.

Manasi arrives, says hi, and Barto asks how she is doing. Manasi responds to Barto, and also to GH about her reads:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hi. I'm very tired. I've only slightly skimmed what's happened since the day has started. How are you? Have you had a good day? What'd you have for dinner?

[to GH]

Meh. Nothing has really changed.

Surprised khaan was enough of a factor to anyone but I could have just inherently been skimming over their posts. Good survivor lynch I guess rip 3P.

Shocked you got RB'd though, I thought you were a villager all day yesterday and still think that today. I really don't wanna call SV a wolf though.

But I'm ecstatic to call Monty one.

My reads haven't really changed much. I've only really skimmed though so idk.

Csargo is disappointed that Barto did not tell him a story. Barto talks a lot about dinner and meaningless things, has this to say to Csargo about wanting to vote him D1:

I do apologise. What, then were you, my good friend whom I would have voted for yesterday had Snerk not asked the public to vote for GeneralHankerchief, asking for?

Csargo tells Barto he can still vote for him, repeats request for a story. Asks Sooh why she doesn't like him, asks Manasi why she doesn't like Monty.

Csargo asks Choxorn why he thought Khaan was a higher-priority lynch than Monty. Csargo leans town on Sooh, contradicts her impression of him D1. Csargo starts Choxorn wagon, condemns Monty wagon (by BSmith, Auto, and Viper). Asks Viper to clarify reactions toward people. Defends Monty's vote on GH, saying GH needs pressure.

When Sooh tells Viper there could be more than one blocker in the game, Csargo makes faces:

Finally, with one-third of the day gone, Manasi claims to have been poisoned:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oh nice.

I was poisoned last night.



I blame cuth.


Someone halp.

Manasi claims death by EOD without antidote.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

See, you say that, but I need to know before I die.

Because I will die at EOD.


And I'm LOCK VILLA.

GH asks Manasi why she didn't claim earlier, the first to ask. Csargo returns:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ATPG is going to slap you no matter what you do, cannot escape.

Logic did Monty strike a nerve?

Gh votes auto, noted. Why auto over BSmith? Their mo's are basically the same.

Csargo calls auto a "stoic lurker". Fishes for clever insight on GH from Monty.

After Logic and Sooh echo GH's question about why Manasi didn't claim earlier, Manasi replies that this is "angly" and she just didn't see the host's notification:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah I uh.

Fuck this is angly.

I'll just say that in the French Revolution game I was invited to a separate quicktopic where I received the invitation via PM on this site and didn't see it until a full 24 hours later.

I need to enable email notifications or something zzz.

Plz donut be disappointed mom and dad plz.

Csargo and Barto respond, with Barto making his poisoning/vTown claim and shading Manasi for not revealing earlier; Barto also votes Champ:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So you're saying you didn't see it? Lolwut?

Plz donut talk about donuts, I'm hungry...

I'll tell you the story that I poisoned Manasi last night with a one-off ability. Now I am, for all intents and purposes, what the gaming populace knows as a ‘vanilla townie’. I find it extremely odd that Manasi did not immediately request for help.


What a strange coincidence.

Oh yes, you may. I find it acceptable for now, especially as a Day One case. I bow to you.



You leave me with no option but to Vote: Champ.

Manasi-Barto chain, small talk; Barto tells Manasi he would heal her if he could:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah I'm not the most alert.

:/

THANKS BARTO

You are most welcome.

Can you uh

Can you fix it plz

If I had such a capability I would consider it. However, as I have already stated, I have no abilities remaining.

[Montmorency]

And notice how we are both voting Csargo. Which Monsieur d'Montmorency still refuses to do.

I voted him a while ago.

Same question as to Logic: Why can't they both be town?

I mentioned the possibility earlier while planning to vote Zack on Csargo's claim, scenario that Csargo was telling the truth but that the Zack block was NAI because Mafia independently decided not to kill that night.

I considered it to be relatively unlikely, and same for the tables turned between Csargo and Zack. One of them is definitely scum IMO.

[El Barto]

Yes, yes, we know, Csargo. We are bound to lynch Zack if you are revealed to be town. Yes.

I'm just going to sum up D2 activity from Manasi, Csargo, and Barto for now.

What? Seriously, Monty, this is not last year's game. You need not pretend to be after me while not voting me any longer.

I voted him a while ago.

Ach! *downs a slug* We need a newer vote tally than the one I have.

[Montmorency]

Barto-Csargo-Manasi, second half of D2:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Novice asks barto why he poisoned Manasi, and seeing barto's comment that he would be willing to cure Manasi if he had an antidote, novice also asks if Barto has changed his mind on Manasi needing to be poisoned/die. Barto gives a kind of shallow response:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, (she?) needn't to be poisoned again, as one dose is supposed to do the trick.

We either have a helpful townie come forth and save Manasi, leaving us with three cleared players of the Innocent persuasion, including myself, or we rid ourselves of a player who cannot be bothered to notice the messages from our beloved Game Master (Manasi is misrepresenting her situation).

Manasi avers that she isn't misrepresenting anything, check FrenchRev, she is bad with private messages. Barto reveals that Manasi will actually die at the end of night, and so was lying about EOD death; congratulates novice on noticing that he breadcrumbed a claim in this aforementioned post:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ah-ha.

Very well, I might be persuaded to vote for Raith Kemmler. We have time.

How are things going with you, my good lady?

Barto expanding on his contradiction of Manasi's understanding of her death timing, talks about cooking and food again:

I must amend the above statement. Manasi claimed that her death was due to happen at the end of the current Day phase (D2 in the vernacular) when it is actually due to happen at the end of the coming Night phase (N2 in the vernacular). I am sorry that I did not clarify this before, and my only excuse for such an oversight is that I was engaged in preparing a sauce based on tomatoes (well, mostly tomatoes) for accompanying some pasta al dente for a meal, and I have only now extricated myself from the straps of the cook's apron.

Barto claims to be playing seriously, and notes that he acted to prevent people from concluding that Cuth had poisoned Manasi; also responds to Viper's criticism of Barto assuming that someone curing Manasi would clear Manasi, Barto, and the 3rd player:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I made full disclosure of my use of my ability to start providing information. For once, I am playing seriously. I might even befriend Seymour Skinner. Firstly, my information, and there being at least two known poisoners on the town side, makes the existence of multiple wielders of the roleblock ability also possible.

Also, I had to prevent the misconception that our now dead poisoner had, for some reason, attacked Manasi from arising. That would have also polluted discussion.

[to Viper]

I must admit that it is only a hypothesis. A small network of innocents might be my gift to the town and a not insignificant contribution to our eventual victory. That, or a botherseome accumulation of fæces.

Barto again pushes the possibility of duplicate roles wrt his own Poison (given Cuth flipped with a Poison shot). Barto has made this point several times already:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

After a perusal of the posts earlier in this phase, I can point out the following exchanges:
Severing Viper made the following post:

Which then gave rise to the following exchanges:

and then

It would be a strong possibility that Sooh is right and there are multiple copies of each ability distributed among the players.

Barto draws attention to Monty implying that he would cure Manasi in exchange for loyalty. Manasi returns, whines about dying, says timing of claim doesn't matter, and that her PM only said she would be poisoned and that poisonings on her home forum take final effect at EOD:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So we're just gonna let me die?

Okay.

Why does it matter when I said I was going to die?

The PM just said I was poisoned.

NOT

"You have been poisoned and will perish in 72 hours good luck friend godspeed."

It just said I was poisoned.


If anyone has an antidote I would be greatly appreciative, because just letting me die is a horrendous idea.

The way I usually play with poisoners is that at the end of the DAY PHASE is when the poison runs out.

Why are you being so rude and dismissive Barto?

Barto confronts Manasi about timing again, leaves thread:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The question which you claim to be unimportant, name ‘when I said I was going to die?’ can be interpreted in two ways. Both are important.

If you mean the moment that you actually made the post in which you claimed you were going to die, then it matters because you are either not paying attention or you spent some time consulting with your mafia partners whether they had the antidote.

If you mean why the moment of your upcoming death matters, then it is relevant because either you are not paying attention (again) or you were deliberately lying. First you were going to die at a specified time. Now you claim it to be an unspecified one. Please make up your mind.

I am off to watch a film.
I said, good day.

Csargo pops in to call Barto his favorite players, other than Sasaki. Complains that BSmith is discussing trivial stuff w novice/Logic, leaving Csargo nothing to work with.

Csargo makes very interesting post about "dangerous", "serious" Barto:

This is the most dangerous Barto. Generally his tone is somewhere in between, this is far more serious than I would expect. We'll see what happens, but it is cause for concern imo. Though I wouldn't call it inherently scummy, more observation is needed.

Csargo's last posts of the day, leaves his vote on Choxorn because he is scummiest ITT, then returns EOD to ask for leadership, refuses my request to save Choxorn:

Probably won't be around much EoD, because of work. Still think Chox is the scummiest player itt, so I'm leaving my vote on him.

I'm here, lead me!

Why?

Did you not see this?

Manasi's last post of day comes at EOD; she votes Raith after feeling less solid on Choxorn, though understanding GH's case on him, and notes that GH-Sooh-novice-Logic are her top town reads:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Feeling less good about voting on Chox. I kinda get where GH is on why he scum reads him but I do feel kinda uncomfortable voting there.

I wonder which out of my 5 posts day 1 was very suspicious. Would love to know.

Really would urge you all to look at Barto after my flip because there was virtually no reason to poison someone completely random.

Zz z z z z z z .

GH/Sooh/Novice/logic still sitting pretty strong in my village cirlce.


Sorry, long phases make me kinda zone out for more time than I'd like to admit.

Vote: Raith Kemmler

Barto says a bunch of stuff at EOD, but I'm not going to go through it, sorry. Maybe tomorrow.

[Montmorency]

What? Seriously, Monty, this is not last year's game. You need not pretend to be after me while not voting me any longer.

What's that?

Csargo is lying. I know for a fact my action went through so I can't have been roleblocked.

Plus posts like #1400 are basically lolcatting imo. He's been painfully awkward/frozen today, and a good number of his posts are fairly lolcatty. (If you're unfamiliar, on some sites outted wolves would start posting actual lolcat pictures, so "lolcatting" has become a term for a wolf who has been outted and is basically just trolling and messing around.)


Two people are claiming the same thing, one is scum. Most often seen in 9er and 13er cop setups, where wolves will fakeclaim cop and go into a claim battle / thunderdome with the real cop.

Are you saying you did something other than block? If you did block, technically wrt actions it's the same as you having been blocked by that person, other than the possibility of dual actions.

[Zack]

For what it's worth, in my experience poisoning is something that's announced publicly (eg "x has been poisoned and will die at end of day if not healed").

So inb4 this was all just performance art, it never actually happened, and both are scum.

[Zack]

why did manasi vote viper over barto yesterday?

[Jabbz]

Can monty or someone restate the case on barto?

My case on Barto is that he is failing to engage arguments in responses to his claims, and cherry picking in order to keep his vote on low hanging fruit (me). Someone who is genuinely looking for scum looks at all the arguments, not just ones that allow you to keep viewing the world the way you want to, especially when the fact that you missed those arguments is pointed out to you repeatedly. It's just scummy behavior.

[El Barto]

This is disingenuous at best. I don't talk about most people this game, as my level of interaction has been exceedingly low. Further, in that post I only mention 5 people, out of the 13 in game at that moment. This is my problem with your arguments to date, you are forcing facts to fit your narrative, rather than shaping your narrative around the facts. Town has no need to do that.

(…) Monty I'm hedging scummy against, but I have a hard time articulating the why of it, even to myself. Something just feels off about his engagements. I know that's not a helpful answer, but it's what I've got.

Well, if you want to compensate for your admittedly low level of interaction, you could compare Monty's behaviour during this game to that in his last mafia one (we were partners, with atpg subbing in for our final third mafiosa.

My case on Barto is that he is failing to engage arguments in responses to his claims, and cherry picking in order to keep his vote on low hanging fruit (me). Someone who is genuinely looking for scum looks at all the arguments, not just ones that allow you to keep viewing the world the way you want to, especially when the fact that you missed those arguments is pointed out to you repeatedly. It's just scummy behavior.

Besides the fact that I am not voting for you anymore, Jabbz, we can say that summy behaviour is what I do most often as town.

[Jabbz]

Well, if you want to compensate for your admittedly low level of interaction, you could compare Monty's behaviour during this game to that in his last mafia one (we were partners, with atpg subbing in for our final third mafiosa.

WTF? I don't have time to engage this game as much as I'd like, so your solution is for me to read an entire other game? That doesn't make sense in any way shape or form.

Besides the fact that I am not voting for you anymore, Jabbz, we can say that summy behaviour is what I do most often as town.

Well given that my vote isn't based on OMGUS, it doesn't matter much whether you're voting for me. As to scummy behavior, if that's your town game that sucks, but I'm working with what I have this game.

[El Barto]

WTF? I don't have time to engage this game as much as I'd like, so your solution is for me to read an entire other game? That doesn't make sense in any way shape or form.

If you have the time, read the post-game commentary (the last 1 or 2 pages). It will do you good.

[novice]

OH BABY ZCAK'S HERE THE WIM TRAIN HAS ARRIVED

For two, when I subbed in she talked about "the wim train arriving", then showed a total lack of any actual wim, only occasionally popping in to not really say anything.

Yes, but she was clearly talking about you providing the wim, not her.

My thought is she just coasted on people calling her town and her team wasn't in any trouble.

Possible.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I stand by my statement about logic. I find it unlikely that scum would make the connection I did to his post or would have come up with his post in the first place. Combined with a lack of negative feels from him so far this game, I feel safe putting him 98% town.

If you want an official vote just say that and one of us can point it out to ATPG.

All reads subject to change after iso reads in the upcoming day, but this is where I view things currently.

Lock Town
Logic

Likely Town
Manasi

Unsure in no particular order
Novice
Csargo
Zack choxorn

Possible Scum
Champ
Montmorency

Scum, El Barto more sure than GHC
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto

These are the only times Jabbz interacts with or mentions Csargo all game. It's especially worth noting because he gives a fairly sizeable impressions post earlier on (here) that doesn't mention him at all.

[El Barto]

(…) These are the only times Jabbz interacts with or mentions Csargo all game. It's especially worth noting because he gives a fairly sizeable impressions post earlier on (here) that doesn't mention him at all.

And notice how we are both voting Csargo. Which Monsieur d'Montmorency still refuses to do.

[Jabbz]

These are the only times Jabbz interacts with or mentions Csargo all game. It's especially worth noting because he gives a fairly sizeable impressions post earlier on (here) that doesn't mention him at all.

This is disingenuous at best. I don't talk about most people this game, as my level of interaction has been exceedingly low. Further, in that post I only mention 5 people, out of the 13 in game at that moment. This is my problem with your arguments to date, you are forcing facts to fit your narrative, rather than shaping your narrative around the facts. Town has no need to do that.

[Zack]

Yes, but she was clearly talking about you providing the wim, not her.

Disagree.

tfw I've already doubled my postcount in the game within the first 45 minutes of this day.

Zack

[novice]

Disagree.

Okay, it's more open to nterpretation than I thought, then. Let's let Manasi address this then.