Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[Cuthillius]

Questioning a contradiction is almost never suboptimal. Questioning contradictions and challenging people is how you play the game, you don't just wait for scum to hand you blatant slips and clear evidence.


Except that likely is what he meant, but it's not what he said:



And when asked by novice, he didn't clarify that was what he meant, but continued to talk about himself:

So I asked him exactly that myself, and he hasn't responded as far as I can see while I'm typing this.

You're answering for him. I hope you understand why you really shouldn't be doing that.

okay

i'll leave you alone then

i've read it multiple times and i'm still not seeing a contradiction, so

[Sooh]

Questioning a contradiction is almost never suboptimal. Questioning contradictions and challenging people is how you play the game, you don't just wait for scum to hand you blatant slips and clear evidence.

It isn't a slip though. Not a game relevant one anyway.

If he forgot that he played with someone recently or didn't, what does that have to do with anything in game? Or are you thinking that scum will pull a "I can't read this guy, because I haven't played with him before/recently"?

Nitpicking about game slips, sure, go ahead! I feel though that those are most often made by townies, because in my experience scums quality check their posts more.

[El Barto]

Nitpicking about game slips, sure, go ahead! I feel though that those are most often made by townies, because in my experience scums quality check their posts more.

We don't?

[seireikhaan]

@seireikhaan
You object to my playstyle, is that it?
How am I on your lawn? Are you sharing a lawn with someone?

I don't share no lawn, it's MY LAWN. YOU GIT YOUR OWN LAWN. And then we won't have no troubles, ya see?

On a more serious note, if you want to get into deep conversations and and analysis on day 1, that's... fine, but I'm not too horribly concerned about that yet tbh. Don't get me wrong I'll check back in on day 2+ and compare notes to days after, but I'm not too hot and bothered yet because it's pretty RNG on whether a mafia gets nailed unless they really mess up. Although, on the playstyle bit, I will note that the people from off-site have a bit of a different interpretation of town play on some level to what I grew up with. I'm a bit more used to *everyone* playing relatively close to the vest, yes, even as town. If someone's triggering your scumdar, maybe you poke around, maybe get them lynched off response, but I've never been a fan of these "here's my list, I think people's X, Y, and Z are innocent, people's A, B, and C are iffy, and people's 1, 2, and 3 are scummy".

[SeveringViper]

D2, D3. At this stage you might not get a response out of me even by voting me.

Alright then.

You should enable using profile pictures as avatars. The instructions are available on the forum page.

Hm, interesting~ ...And I really should get my profile picture a transparent background.

Just leave things be. As I told you, people here don't need to post every thirty seconds or so as in MU.

This is honestly an exaggeration, or have I been posting every 30 seconds? What if I hate that ridiculous pace and focus on talking for the sake of it myself?
The only reason it looks like people are doing that here is because only a few have decided that they don't need to wait a couple phases or so to start meaningful game talk. There is no set time to start getting serious or required rate of posts, and I would 100% say those things represent a stupid and poor mentality, but that works both ways. I want to be made to stop being easily one of the top three posters and not having there be a clear divide between them and the others by other players not waiting to an artificially set time to start getting serious. I don't like being the one who's commenting on everything and trying to start discussion about things that should be discussed. I don't think that's a ridiculous desire.
By saying "calm down and wait for d2!", you're telling me and the others who've been trying to spark activity and respond to things that those efforts and everything they've said means nothing. So you've already taken a position on things anyway.

[SeveringViper]

okay

i'll leave you alone then

i've read it multiple times and i'm still not seeing a contradiction, so

That conversation's over anyway. Any other thoughts or reads?

It isn't a slip though. Not a game relevant one anyway.

If he forgot that he played with someone recently or didn't, what does that have to do with anything in game? Or are you thinking that scum will pull a "I can't read this guy, because I haven't played with him before/recently"?

Nitpicking about game slips, sure, go ahead! I feel though that those are most often made by townies, because in my experience scums quality check their posts more.

My point was not to wait for "game-relevant slips".

That's not what he said and I never thought it was. N/A

That can be true, but how far does it go? If I say anyone who makes a contradictory/strange/suspicious post should be left alone because scum would be more careful about what they post, I'd get nowhere, accomplish nothing and lose. Better to take the risk and push anything, and leave it to the player to convince me they're town. There are times they will, there are times they'll fail and get mislynched, there are times they are scum who can be made to slip from the pressure. But holding back does nothing.

[SeveringViper]

I don't share no lawn, it's MY LAWN. YOU GIT YOUR OWN LAWN. And then we won't have no troubles, ya see?

On a more serious note, if you want to get into deep conversations and and analysis on day 1, that's... fine, but I'm not too horribly concerned about that yet tbh. Don't get me wrong I'll check back in on day 2+ and compare notes to days after, but I'm not too hot and bothered yet because it's pretty RNG on whether a mafia gets nailed unless they really mess up. Although, on the playstyle bit, I will note that the people from off-site have a bit of a different interpretation of town play on some level to what I grew up with. I'm a bit more used to *everyone* playing relatively close to the vest, yes, even as town. If someone's triggering your scumdar, maybe you poke around, maybe get them lynched off response, but I've never been a fan of these "here's my list, I think people's X, Y, and Z are innocent, people's A, B, and C are iffy, and people's 1, 2, and 3 are scummy".

I agree.
d1 is the point of lowest info, and a correct lynch is often luck (and due to a lucky screwup). That's not my point and not why I want more people to get involved now. I want more people to get serious because there has been discussion already and there are things people can and should think about and comment on. I'm not too fussed about the lynch either, my vote is still on GH because I'm not completely satisfied with what he's said and done, but it's still a judgement based on a small amount of data that could well be wrong. But I have absolutely no regrets even if it is a mislynch, because d1 is a c***shoot, yet town should not sit on their rear and wait for some anticipated time of better info. There is what to discuss now, and it's because of novice taking the initiative and starting serious discussion right away d1 that GH has something that's making people vote him and there's been plenty of discussion to read and form thoughts on/from. Why wait?

[Raith Kemmler]

Laptop has taken ill. Will be a bit harder to post outside home. PSA, as I hate my phone for this.

Last 9ish hours have been slow though. Manasi in with no thoughts on anyone, which is kind of surprising to me.
Monty, Choxorn, Csargo and Autolycus about where I would expect them to be at this time in the game. A few joke/poke votes and a lean or two on players. GH's fairly long first post had some odd conclusions that I hope he can get back to.

I currently feel quite good about Novice and Severing Viper. Both are slight town leans. El Barto too, but I suspect I feel that way just because I enjoy playing with him. No solid reasons yet.

Elaborate on Csargo and Monty? Autolycus seems normal enough for day 1. No lean. Could maybe vote towards Chox.

I can (vaguely) remember three games. First game I was town, followed a few mislynches led by scum pizza, then got mislynched by him. Town lost. Second game I was scum and we won with three scum and three town remaining, and me being widely townread almost until the end. Third game I subbed in as town on day three, tunneled on scum pizza, and got nightkilled quickly. You'd need to read the games for more details.

Sorry if I come across as a killjoy, I'm enjoying the game and find myself smiling while playing it.

More curious about the how of GH's reasoning than the game details. But thanks.

‘Theory’ is not a verb and ‘rational’ is not a noun, but that's Lisa's shtick. What is this ‘shoot in midgame if no wolves caught’ thing?

No one likes a pedent. Yes, pedEnt.

welp ded thread


anyway, all i did was ctrl f my name.

You guys need to talk about me more that was boring.

Haven't seen a post from Manasi I like. Not shady so much as empty filler. But said she's sick, so will wait to pass judgement.

Anyone have a vote count? Will manually do it in a few hours otherwise.

[Cuthillius]

That conversation's over anyway. Any other thoughts or reads?.

not at this point, no

[SeveringViper]

Anyone have a vote count? Will manually do it in a few hours otherwise.

Just made one myself, pretty sure I got everything:

Novice - 3: GH, seireikhaan, Montmorency
Montmorency - 2: autolycus
Manasi - 2: Choxorn
GH - 3: SV, novice, Barto
Sooh - 1: Raith
Raith - 1: Logic
Seireikhaan - 1: Csargo

I don't think you unvoted before changing btw, @novice;, and that's a requirement for it to count.

not at this point, no

Ok.

[novice]

I don't share no lawn, it's MY LAWN. YOU GIT YOUR OWN LAWN. And then we won't have no troubles, ya see?

On a more serious note, if you want to get into deep conversations and and analysis on day 1, that's... fine, but I'm not too horribly concerned about that yet tbh. Don't get me wrong I'll check back in on day 2+ and compare notes to days after, but I'm not too hot and bothered yet because it's pretty RNG on whether a mafia gets nailed unless they really mess up. Although, on the playstyle bit, I will note that the people from off-site have a bit of a different interpretation of town play on some level to what I grew up with. I'm a bit more used to *everyone* playing relatively close to the vest, yes, even as town. If someone's triggering your scumdar, maybe you poke around, maybe get them lynched off response, but I've never been a fan of these "here's my list, I think people's X, Y, and Z are innocent, people's A, B, and C are iffy, and people's 1, 2, and 3 are scummy".

Of course, someone has to make sure there's something to check back in on from day 1 when day 3 comes around.

I'm not that bothered either with regards to who hangs, but I would like to get some information out of it. So let's chat.

Is your vote on me
A) A pressure vote
B) A random joke
C) A random crapshoot, where all things being equal, you might as well lynch a play style you're unfamiliar with
D) A serious vote based on scumtells hidden under your vest

If A or B, do you see it turning into C, or would you rather move the vote to another player? If D, could you open your vest?

Do you have opinions on any of the other kids on the lawn? Viper, Sooh, Raith and Cuthilius, for example?

[novice]

I don't think you unvoted before changing btw, @novice;, and that's a requirement for it to count.

Thanks. That's not a requirement on this forum though.

[SeveringViper]

Thanks. That's not a requirement on this forum though.

Checked and standing corrected. Got confused when I saw someone unvote while looking through the votes.

[Sooh]

Elaborate on Csargo and Monty? Autolycus seems normal enough for day 1. No lean. Could maybe vote towards Chox.

There is nothing in particular to note, that was sort of the point. I usually end up having no lean on the majority of the players here at the Org, because I don't understand how people get leans from 3 posts with one sentence in each. All I'm saying is that those players seem like what I would expect from them here.

[seireikhaan]

Of course, someone has to make sure there's something to check back in on from day 1 when day 3 comes around.

I'm not that bothered either with regards to who hangs, but I would like to get some information out of it. So let's chat.

Is your vote on me
A) A pressure vote
B) A random joke
C) A random crapshoot, where all things being equal, you might as well lynch a play style you're unfamiliar with
D) A serious vote based on scumtells hidden under your vest

If A or B, do you see it turning into C, or would you rather move the vote to another player? If D, could you open your vest?

Do you have opinions on any of the other kids on the lawn? Viper, Sooh, Raith and Cuthilius, for example?

Mostly B, bit of A. As for moving to another player, we'll see. Vest is closed for business atm.

[GeneralHankerchief]

What did you mean by "my first thought"? I'd like to see your response before I unvote.

By "my first thought" I meant it was my first thought. It was the first thing that jumped out at me when I was catching up with the first glut of posts in the thread.

GH, in what way was I pushing it though?

And when you say that Sooh and Viper are not aligned, and you mean exactly that, that excludes them towning together also, right?

You kept going back to it, but on second thought I guess that could just be a natural extension of people responding to you and you furthering the conversation, which is stupid now that I look back on it.

Generally when people/myself say "not aligned" that strictly refers to "they're not mafia together".

I feel like half of the interactions people have been making with me/half the case on me has come down to pedantics, which is a dumb reason to lynch someone but then again I suppose I'm overdue to eat rope so que sera sera. Will try to put down some sick reads in the meantime.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Scratch that, it looks like half the entire thread right now is built off pedantic arguments.

Hot take: Someone involved in the later argument (the whole Logic, Playground/Org thing) is scum, saw the earlier pedantic argument and decided it would be good to get in one of his/her own.

[Raith Kemmler]

There is nothing in particular to note, that was sort of the point. I usually end up having no lean on the majority of the players here at the Org, because I don't understand how people get leans from 3 posts with one sentence in each. All I'm saying is that those players seem like what I would expect from them here.

Lemme rephrase. What does Evil! Csargo and Monty look like? Open question to anyone.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Insert slightly less old, add more cranky.

Csargo used taunt! It's a critical hit!
seireikhaan's anger point activated!


Back in my day we didn't have fancy schmancy things like "role reveals" or "information". We voted for people because they ate spicy meatballs and liked it! Nowadays everyone wants to push and shove and pull and prostrate. All you need to solve mafia is your gut and your heart and the Truth!

Vote: Novice for being on my lawn.

I don't share no lawn, it's MY LAWN. YOU GIT YOUR OWN LAWN. And then we won't have no troubles, ya see?

On a more serious note, if you want to get into deep conversations and and analysis on day 1, that's... fine, but I'm not too horribly concerned about that yet tbh. Don't get me wrong I'll check back in on day 2+ and compare notes to days after, but I'm not too hot and bothered yet because it's pretty RNG on whether a mafia gets nailed unless they really mess up. Although, on the playstyle bit, I will note that the people from off-site have a bit of a different interpretation of town play on some level to what I grew up with. I'm a bit more used to *everyone* playing relatively close to the vest, yes, even as town. If someone's triggering your scumdar, maybe you poke around, maybe get them lynched off response, but I've never been a fan of these "here's my list, I think people's X, Y, and Z are innocent, people's A, B, and C are iffy, and people's 1, 2, and 3 are scummy".

Mostly B, bit of A. As for moving to another player, we'll see. Vest is closed for business atm.

khaan hasn't done a character schtick yet to start the game which is mildly concerning.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Lemme rephrase. What does Evil! Csargo and Monty look like? Open question to anyone.

Csargo doesn't really have a traditional range as scum, a lot of it depends on the individual game factors and his own ability to invest a lot of RL time, etc. Follow him logically, look at his reads/see if they match up with the gamestate, try to construct worlds where he's scum and see if they make sense - all the usual mafia hunting techniques, do that more than look for individual quirks IMO.

I have a hard time reading Monty.

Why those two, OOC?

[seireikhaan]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

khaan hasn't done a character schtick yet to start the game which is mildly concerning.

Got tired of people wanting to lynch me for rp'ing.

[El Barto]

And we don't get to know which Pokemanz we are, anyway, except that Askthepizzagary is probably laughing at us somewhere in a fjord.

[Sooh]

And we don't get to know which Pokemanz we are, anyway, except that Askthepizzagary is probably laughing at us somewhere in a fjord.

I'll keep you posted.

[Sooh]

g'night guys

[Jabbz]

That's sort of what I got from it, yes. I was a bit confused by Viper's insistence that you said you knew my play well.

That is what I got out of it as well. Seemed to be reaching a bit much, though it is day 1, so there isn't a lot to shoot for.

[Jabbz]

How many tiles?

1920 tiles.

[El Barto]

I'll keep you posted.

Excellent.

1920 tiles.

Hexagonal or diamond-shaped? African or European?

[Jabbz]

African Triangles.

[Jabbz]

Caught up finally, but still don't have a whole lot of time. I can say from what I've seen that SeveringViper style bothers me. There is a high post volume and they do seem to be engaging, which hints town to me. At the same time, the arguments being made seem to be more shallow shots than meaningful. Basically makes it a crapshoot, but for day one you can't hope for much more than that in my opinion.

[SeveringViper]

I feel like half of the interactions people have been making with me/half the case on me has come down to pedantics, which is a dumb reason to lynch someone but then again I suppose I'm overdue to eat rope so que sera sera. Will try to put down some sick reads in the meantime.

Unvote Go on, this game needs some of that.

Scratch that, it looks like half the entire thread right now is built off pedantic arguments.

Hot take: Someone involved in the later argument (the whole Logic, Playground/Org thing) is scum, saw the earlier pedantic argument and decided it would be good to get in one of his/her own.

Those "pedantic arguments" were:
A. The few active players pursuing anything they could.
B. 99% me. What do you say?

Are you locking in the novice vote?

Caught up finally, but still don't have a whole lot of time. I can say from what I've seen that SeveringViper style bothers me. There is a high post volume and they do seem to be engaging, which hints town to me. At the same time, the arguments being made seem to be more shallow shots than meaningful. Basically makes it a crapshoot, but for day one you can't hope for much more than that in my opinion.

This...is disappointingly shallow itself. I think we've all well established that d1 is a c***shoot and there's little to work with, now do you have anything to add? What do you think of the others that talked?