Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

Originally Posted by El Barto

How are things going with you, my good lady?

For the record: El Barto alluding to the poisoning early today.

Originally Posted by autolycus

Wait, you blocked GH last night, someone died, so now you want him lynched?
And now you want a scanner to claim?

Vote:Montmorency

I agree with GH that this vote doesn't leave the best impression. Quick to jump straight to voting when the obvious logical fallacy that Autolycus read from Monty's post should signal a need for clarification more than it should signal scummy intent. Also, Monty has been calling for scanners to claim since his opening post.

Originally Posted by Montmorency

I don't know what's going on. Just tell me who scans type.

Or Vote: novice gets it.

Originally Posted by novice

How would that clear any of the players involved?

*reads the bolded*

Oh, ok. The poison only kills townies, or something?

No, no, my good sir; it is, quite more simply, that Manasi is scheduled to die at the end of Night Two, not Day one as she's claimed.

Originally Posted by Manasi

I'm not misrepresenting anything.

You can check french rev if you want.

I literally suck at looking at private messages.

As you prove time and again.

Originally Posted by novice

For the record: El Barto alluding to the poisoning early today.

I am glad that somebody noticed. Yes, I was trying to draw Manasi out.

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Barto's claim is a dangerous one. Now Barto needs to be killed at night - but then, if he's town, that defeats the purpose. But if he doesn't die, well what if the Mafia had a higher-priority target?

And with Cuth, it might be easier to believe one character with 2 delayed day-vigs rather than two characters with one. We are Pokemon, after all, and with so much variety why should there be two poison-types exactly?

Don't count Barto out on this claim.

Why should he need to be killed at night now that he has claimed to be powerless? Scum have higher-priority targets in anyone that still can use their role ability.

Why should there be three roleblockers?

Who is doing that?

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Manasi survives. Or are they all in on it and announcing it to the world early game?

She survives and X claims to be her savior. Where's the proof that it was them?
Say Y counterclaims X on that, who do you trust?
It really doesn't do much on its own, does it?

Originally Posted by El Barto

No, no, my good sir; it is, quite more simply, that Manasi is scheduled to die at the end of Night Two, not Day one as she's claimed.

As El Barto would say: !

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

Why should he need to be killed at night now that he has claimed to be powerless? Scum have higher-priority targets in anyone that still can use their role ability.

Why should there be three roleblockers?

Who is doing that?

Exactly. A perfectly plausible position - among others. You see?

Roleblock, as far as Mafia goes, is pretty generic. Delayed vig is rarer, and Poison is type-dependent for the flavor, so two townie delayed-killing shots, both poison-type is in my mind less likely than one poison-type townie with two delayed-killing shots. Or maybe Barto wants to throw down and make things spicy. That's why his claim that Manasi misreported the details of the effect is so noteworthy and needs to be explored. See below...

It's a caution.

She survives and X claims to be her savior. Where's the proof that it was them?
Say Y counterclaims X on that, who do you trust?
It really doesn't do much on its own, does it?

None, but at that layer it becomes an increasingly-risky play for scum, unless they are all scum, in which case the entire team just outed themselves for a very unclear benefit.

But as per my caution, mechanically it is not really clearing for anyone in particular since Manasi could be scum affected, Barto could be scum covering for their kill, or the rescuer could be scum themselves. Certain combinations are less likely than others, however.

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Exactly. A perfectly plausible position - among others. You see?

I'm afraid I don't, what are you trying to say?

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Roleblock, as far as Mafia goes, is pretty generic. Delayed vig is rarer, and Poison is type-dependent for the flavor, so two townie delayed-killing shots, both poison-type is in my mind less likely than one poison-type townie with two delayed-killing shots. Or maybe Barto wants to throw down and make things spicy. That's why his claim that Manasi misreported the details of the effect is so noteworthy and needs to be explored. See below...

Fair enough. But Cuth already flipped as poisoner, so by this reasoning, Barto is now a suspect, yes?
The issue of her claimed misrepresentation is interesting, but let me add another point, why would she deliberately lie about how long she has and risk being exposed like this?

Originally Posted by Montmorency

It's a caution.

Alright then.

Originally Posted by Montmorency

None, but at that layer it becomes an increasingly-risky play for scum, unless they are all scum, in which case the entire team just outed themselves for a very unclear benefit.

But as per my caution, mechanically it is not really clearing for anyone in particular since Manasi could be scum affected, Barto could be scum covering for their kill, or the rescuer could be scum themselves. Certain combinations are less likely than others, however.

See, the last paragraph is my point. It can be any combination, and Barto saying all three would be cleared is just off.

Originally Posted by novice

Really?

Yes.

Originally Posted by novice

You were voting blind in earnest?

Yes.

Originally Posted by novice

Didn't you fear that would do more harm than good?

No. It’s day one. The only person I care about not dying is me.

Originally Posted by novice

Or would you have rerolled some results, so it wasn't really random?

My name was on the list too, so I suppose I might have re-rolled if my number came up. But maybe not. Wouldn’t have re-rolled anyone else though.

Originally Posted by novice

Why bother with an excel sheet at all, wouldn't it be simpler to just pick a scummy-sounding post and vote that person?

Because I hadn’t read any of the thread, and excel was a way to make my choice truly random. I was hoping to get caught up before EOD and potentially change my vote, but I wasn’t able to make that happen.

Originally Posted by Jabbz

For that to apply here you would have to know the individual was a survivor BEFORE you killed him, which I find unlikely.

Well, sure. But even if I didn’t know, I’d rather have killed/lynched a townie than a neutral third party.

Originally Posted by BSmith

Well, sure. But even if I didn’t know, I’d rather have killed/lynched a townie than a neutral third party.

But why?

At the very least, a townie shares your win condition. A neutral has his or her own win condition, and if the opportunity arises to for them to win by making you lose, they will take it.

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Originally Posted by El Barto

No, no, my good sir; it is, quite more simply, that Manasi is scheduled to die at the end of Night Two, not Day one as she's claimed.

As El Barto would say: !

I must amend the above statement. Manasi claimed that her death was due to happen at the end of the current Day phase (D2 in the vernacular) when it is actually due to happen at the end of the coming Night phase (N2 in the vernacular). I am sorry that I did not clarify this before, and my only excuse for such an oversight is that I was engaged in preparing a sauce based on tomatoes (well, mostly tomatoes) for accompanying some pasta al dente for a meal, and I have only now extricated myself from the straps of the cook's apron.

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

Fair enough. But Cuth already flipped as poisoner, so by this reasoning, Barto is now a suspect, yes?
The issue of her claimed misrepresentation is interesting, but let me add another point, why would she deliberately lie about how long she has and risk being exposed like this?

I made full disclosure of my use of my ability to start providing information. For once, I am playing seriously. I might even befriend Seymour Skinner. Firstly, my information, and there being at least two known poisoners on the town side, makes the existence of multiple wielders of the roleblock ability also possible.

Also, I had to prevent the misconception that our now dead poisoner had, for some reason, attacked Manasi from arising. That would have also polluted discussion.

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

See, the last paragraph is my point. It can be any combination, and Barto saying all three would be cleared is just off.

I must admit that it is only a hypothesis. A small network of innocents might be my gift to the town and a not insignificant contribution to our eventual victory. That, or a botherseome accumulation of fæces.

Originally Posted by Logic

But why?

At the very least, a townie shares your win condition. A neutral has his or her own win condition, and if the opportunity arises to for them to win by making you lose, they will take it.

I think we're mixed up. I am talking from a hypothetical scum perspective. Not a townie one. As a townie I'd rather leave a neutral survivor alone as well to focus on scumhunting.

After a perusal of the posts earlier in this phase, I can point out the following exchanges:
Severing Viper made the following post:

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

Not my claim. Role, not target.

Which then gave rise to the following exchanges:

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

Originally Posted by Choxorn

So... what are you claiming, exactly?

Might as well.

Mont claimed 1x RB. I am 1x RB.

and then

Originally Posted by Csargo

Originally Posted by Sooh

SV, imagine for a second that there are more than one blocker this game.

It would be a strong possibility that Sooh is right and there are multiple copies of each ability distributed among the players.

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Scan for me, and I shall grant you the gift of life, and death to your enemies.

Originally Posted by Manasi

u gonna feed me an antidote or what

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Sure, we'll figure it out. You'll have nothing to worry about.

The above is one more exchange I would like to bring together for more lucid minds to analyse. Good day, sirs.

So we're just gonna let me die?

Okay.

Why does it matter when I said I was going to die?

The PM just said I was poisoned.

NOT

"You have been poisoned and will perish in 72 hours good luck friend godspeed."

It just said I was poisoned.


If anyone has an antidote I would be greatly appreciative, because just letting me die is a horrendous idea.

Originally Posted by Manasi

Why does it matter when I said I was going to die?

The PM just said I was poisoned.

NOT

"You have been poisoned and will perish in 72 hours good luck friend godspeed."

It just said I was poisoned.

The question which you claim to be unimportant, name ‘when I said I was going to die?’ can be interpreted in two ways. Both are important.

If you mean the moment that you actually made the post in which you claimed you were going to die, then it matters because you are either not paying attention or you spent some time consulting with your mafia partners whether they had the antidote.

If you mean why the moment of your upcoming death matters, then it is relevant because either you are not paying attention (again) or you were deliberately lying. First you were going to die at a specified time. Now you claim it to be an unspecified one. Please make up your mind.

I am off to watch a film.
I said, good day.

Barto's probably my favorite player of all time. Well, except Sasaki, but that's not even a fair comparison.

BSmith discussing trivial stuff w novice/Logic, at least give me something to work with geez.

Errata: In the first line of post #615 it should read ‘namely’, not ‘name’.

Now, good day.

Originally Posted by Manasi

So we're just gonna let me die?

Okay.

Why does it matter when I said I was going to die?

The PM just said I was poisoned.

NOT

"You have been poisoned and will perish in 72 hours good luck friend godspeed."

It just said I was poisoned.


If anyone has an antidote I would be greatly appreciative, because just letting me die is a horrendous idea.

I have a strong suspicion that anyone that could do something about it, would.

I don't think anyone has an antidote just yet, if they exist at all.

The way I usually play with poisoners is that at the end of the DAY PHASE is when the poison runs out.

Why are you being so rude and dismissive Barto?

Player list, for the benefit of my vote counter:

• Logic
• Montmorency alias Monty
• BSmith
• GeneralHankerchief alias gh alias general alias hanky alias generalhandkerchief alias GeneralHandkerchief alias generalhankerchief
• El Barto alias Bart
• Champ
• Jabbz
• Manasi
• SeveringViper alias SV alias Viper alias Severing
• Novice
• Csargo
• Autolycus alias Auto
• choxorn alias Chox
• Cuthillius alias Cuth
• seireikhaan alias Khaan alias khan
• Raith Kemmler alias RK alias Raith alias Kemmler
• Sooh

Day one tally with voting history:

Lynch votes
6 votes: seireikhaan (Csargo, GeneralHankerchief, novice, Cuthillius, Choxorn, Raith Kemmler)
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus, BSmith, Logic, SeveringViper)
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (El Barto, Sooh)
2 votes: choxorn (Manasi, seireikhaan)
1 votes: Manasi (Champ)
1 votes: Severing Viper (Montmorency)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Originally Posted by Raith Kemmler

Sooh

Originally Posted by Logic

Raith Kemmler

Originally Posted by novice

Raith Kemmler

Originally Posted by Choxorn

Novice

Originally Posted by El Barto

GeneralHankerchief

Originally Posted by Csargo

seireikhaan

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

novice

Originally Posted by seireikhaan

Novice

Originally Posted by autolycus

Montmorency

Originally Posted by Choxorn

Manasi

Originally Posted by Montmorency

novice

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

GeneralHankerchief

Originally Posted by novice

GeneralHankerchief

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

Unvote

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

Unvote

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Severing Viper

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

seireikhaan

Originally Posted by BSmith

Montmorency

Originally Posted by novice

seireikhaan

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

Jabbz

Originally Posted by Logic

Montmorency

Originally Posted by Sooh

GeneralHankerchief

Originally Posted by Choxorn

Champ

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

choxorn

Originally Posted by seireikhaan

Montmorency

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

choxorn

Originally Posted by Champ

Manasi

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

seireikhaan

Originally Posted by Manasi

choxorn

Originally Posted by seireikhaan

choxorn

Originally Posted by Choxorn

seireikhaan

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

Montmorency

Originally Posted by Raith Kemmler

seireikhaan

Also Jabbz voted Choxorn, which the plugin didn't count because of a missing :

• Raith Kemmler alias Raith Kemmle

Tally as of post 624:

Lynch votes
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus, SeveringViper, BSmith, Logic)
2 votes: choxorn (Csargo, novice)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency)
1 votes: Raith Kemmler (Sooh)
1 votes: Autolycus (GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: Champ (El Barto)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Originally Posted by Montmorency

GeneralHankerchief

Originally Posted by Sooh

Raith Kemmler

Originally Posted by autolycus

Montmorency

Originally Posted by SeveringViper

Montmorency

Originally Posted by BSmith

Montmorency

Originally Posted by Csargo

choxorn

Originally Posted by novice

choxorn

Originally Posted by Logic

Montmorency

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Originally Posted by El Barto

Champ

Post 326:

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

SeveringViper: By my count, khaan's played with everybody here (however briefly in some instances) except Champ. We'll throw Manasi and Logic in there too I guess because French Rev was a factional game and doesn't really fit in. Not really enough to get self-conscious about IMO.

novice: Re: your section of me in your longer post above, I was going to argue that your conclusion w/r/t your read of me is correct, but I feel like your reasons for reading me as such are bad, so I'm not sure what to do with you at the moment? but then I realized that most of the bones I had to pick with it were playstyle differences and thus not actual bad arguments.

Champ: As mentioned in a different post, khaan doesn't play games on other sites.

Post 327:

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Another thing I want to make note of is in Champ's catchup just a few posts above this one, he jumps from my case on khaan (made earlier this morning US time) to commenting about my "pedantics" line (made last night US time), which strikes me as a bit unnatural way of catching up with the thread.

Originally Posted by El Barto

I will note posts #326 and #327 for tomorrow. :)

What was it you wanted to look at today?

Originally Posted by El Barto

Also, I'm totally voting for Champ tomorrow.

Why?

And I still don't understand why you poisoned Manasi, El Barto. You don't seem to suspect her at all on day one, and if you were definitely voting for Champ, wouldn't he be a better target?

Raith Kemmler, Autolycus and Champ are some of the people I would love to hear more from.

Oh yeah, and BSmith.

Somehow I feel like I have gotten more from both Jabbz and Logic with less posts than Champ.

Yeah I think your Raith vote is OK. Choxorn, RK and Autolycus are all plausible lynches today. El Barto has a towny tone but I don't understand his thinking, his actions just seem antitown to me.

Originally Posted by Logic

But why?

At the very least, a townie shares your win condition. A neutral has his or her own win condition, and if the opportunity arises to for them to win by making you lose, they will take it.

Townies have to lose, by definition. Survivors don't. Of course it's a risk, but as the most fundamental risk is to the Survivor, live-and-let-live is a valid mutual strategy to pursue. In Futuramafia, the Mafia spent a whole day at the endgame trying to use blatant innuendo to make a claimed Survivor vote the way they wanted, but the Survivor proved obstinate and drove a lynch of scum. So the Mafia NKed him with extreme prejudice, and the Survivor lost. Mafia won next phase. If the Survivor had pursued a better strategy, he would have won with Mafia the same day, most of his VCs fulfilled.

Originally Posted by El Barto

I must amend the above statement. Manasi claimed that her death was due to happen at the end of the current Day phase (D2 in the vernacular) when it is actually due to happen at the end of the coming Night phase (N2 in the vernacular). I am sorry that I did not clarify this before, and my only excuse for such an oversight is that I was engaged in preparing a sauce based on tomatoes (well, mostly tomatoes) for accompanying some pasta al dente for a meal, and I have only now extricated myself from the straps of the cook's apron.

Any spicy meatballs?