Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 162

Thread: Qatar vs all others

  1. #31
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,706

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    I prefer to rely on Russia, and I think they're opportunistic, treacherous, imperialistic bastards - but at least they're relatively sane, unlike the middle east.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/world/eu...eciting-poetry
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  2. #32
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Relatively. There's a wide margin of bonkers between us and the norm in the middle east. Russia are probably on a par with our far right; basket cases to our eyes, but downright harmless compared with lynchings for blasphemy that have popular support.

  3. #33
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,706

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Relatively. There's a wide margin of bonkers between us and the norm in the middle east. Russia are probably on a par with our far right; basket cases to our eyes, but downright harmless compared with lynchings for blasphemy that have popular support.
    So far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  4. #34
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,332

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Interestingly enough, BBC diplomatic correspondent James Robbins disagrees:


    According to him, the real reason is that Qatar isn't openly hostile to Iran, and tries to have an independent foreign policy instead of doing what Saudi Arabia says.
    That's an interesting point view, no doubt true in its own narrow terms.

    But nothing more than a demonstration of the perils of small nations being silly enough to have pushy foreign policy's:

    http://fpif.org/is_qatars_foreign_policy_sustainable/
    http://www.livemint.com/Politics/dHH...rooted-in.html
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  5. #35

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    As an example of the convoluted foreign policies of the region, recall that Saudi Arabia funded Iran by refining its crude oil for export during the Iran-Iraq war, even as it more directly funded the Iraqi war effort against Iran. (To be fair, a large proportion of the world, including the United States and several European countries, were involved in similar double-dealing during the 80s.)
    Last edited by Montmorency; 06-10-2017 at 15:45.
    Vitiate Man.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  6. #36
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,456

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    From the comments below the video of the 10 year-old boy getting arrested:

    He was not arrested, he was stopped by the police for begging. Not for the Hamlet. His mother exploited the child for money. The person who published the video intentionally wants to confuse and show Russia as a terrible country


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  7. #37
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,706

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    From the comments below the video of the 10 year-old boy getting arrested:



    Comments under the video? Are you serious? Again forgot about troll factory?
    1. The boy was taken to the police department. It is not an arrest, it's detainment. Does it really make any difference? Doesn't it attempt to put a smoke screen over the real issue - the way the police treated a harmless nerdy kid?
    2. The police stated that it was for begging (they needed some justification, didn't they?), but he was not. He was reciting Hamlet's monologue in Arbat street - a place in Moscow traditionally full of artists, performers and other acting people and his STEPmother was filming him. Can it be taken for begging, especially when she was trying to protest the detainment? How come other people with similar activities were not detained on similar charges?
    3. I don't know about the intentions of the person who published the video (neither do "the commentators", don't they?), but it is genuine and it shows the realities of present day Russia. If it doesn't reflect a great credit on the authorities of the said country, is it the fault of the video or its author?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  8. #38

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    It really didn't take a street clip from Gilrandir to show how clueless Pannonian is about the middle east, Russia, and every place outside the UK.

    Even in this thread he has shown zero awareness of the nuance of the issue and the differences between the states involved. They are all the same to him because the templates (that everyone here probably memorized) saved in his brain tell him.

    If you don't know much about what is being talked about, it's better to not post at all. If I posted nonense in the UK thread I may come off the same way.

    Basically the guy has no geopolitical sense typical of most rightwingers lacking the self-awareness.
    Last edited by AE Bravo; 06-11-2017 at 06:40.

  9. #39
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
    It really didn't take a street clip from Gilrandir to show how clueless Pannonian is about the middle east, Russia, and every place outside the UK.

    Even in this thread he has shown zero awareness of the nuance of the issue and the differences between the states involved. They are all the same to him because the templates (that everyone here probably memorized) saved in his brain tell him.

    Of course if I chose not to restrain myself with threads I don't know much about I might come off the same way. You should learn to pipe down and read from the others here who have read up on the details of the thread topic.

    Basically the guy has no geopolitical sense typical of most rightwingers lacking the self-awareness.
    I have an extremely jaded view of the Muslim world, partly from following the various atrocities in the last decade or two, partly from seeing the liberal left in the UK get pinned for Iraq on an endless roll, and partly from following what's going on in Pakistan. That's the Pakistan that was the origin of a fair few of my friends in the past, that was my favourite cricket team in the past, and quite a lot else. Not much different from any other non-anglo culture in the past, just another culture with its own language, food, films, etc. that I loved mixing with. But increasingly its liberal aspects have disappeared, in step with Saudi Arabia's greater influence, and there is a more homogenous "Muslim" culture that identifies with the wrongs suffered by any other Muslim, and propagates the most backward and militant tribal traditions they can find. Up to and including taking action in the UK to address their tribal feuds.

    I'll start thinking of them as separate states once they stop thinking of themselves as Muslims and start thinking of themselves as citizens of their states. As it is, I think of them as blocs, with Iran and any other Shias it can influence as one bloc, and the Saudi alliance as another bloc. I'm not the only one to think that way either, judging by what's going on in the thread subject. It was probably the neocons' mistake that they saw Iraq as its own state, rather than a piece in a multi-bloc puzzle that was better left alone. At the time, I opposed the invasion because I believed in the liberal argument of self determination. Nowadays, I have the same view except that I feel that the region is a hellhole not worth our effort. Muslims will do as Muslims will do, and it's none of our business, and we shouldn't beat ourselves up over how badly they treat each other.

    Now, are you going to chastise me for holding views about other cultures that mean we shouldn't interfere in their affairs? Would you like to argue that we are all part of the same world, and thus we should involve ourselves fully in their affairs as they're also our affairs? What do you think of the Iraq invasion of 2003?

    Members thankful for this post (3):



  10. #40
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,706

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Not much different from any other non-anglo culture in the past, just another culture with its own language, food, films, etc. that I loved mixing with.
    You are deeply mistaken if you see only positive effects of globalization. As I once said, enjoying outlandish food be ready to deal with outlandish diseases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  11. #41
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    You are deeply mistaken if you see only positive effects of globalization. As I once said, enjoying outlandish food be ready to deal with outlandish diseases.
    I'm ok with the risk of Delhi belly if it means trying out different foods from different cultures. Although they'll be getting their ingredients from the local (British) market, so it's more like rummy tummy. But I miss the days when Pakistanis identified themselves as part of the subcontinent, rather than part of the Muslim world as they increasingly do. How much of this change was due to Saudi-funded madrassas, I wonder.

  12. #42
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    10,751

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    I'm ok with the risk of Delhi belly if it means trying out different foods from different cultures. Although they'll be getting their ingredients from the local (British) market, so it's more like rummy tummy. But I miss the days when Pakistanis identified themselves as part of the subcontinent, rather than part of the Muslim world as they increasingly do. How much of this change was due to Saudi-funded madrassas, I wonder.
    And how much of it was Mountbatten not taking the extra time despite the pressure?
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom. -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  13. #43

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian
    I'll start thinking of them as separate states once they stop thinking of themselves as Muslims and start thinking of themselves as citizens of their states. As it is, I think of them as blocs, with Iran and any other Shias it can influence as one bloc, and the Saudi alliance as another bloc. I'm not the only one to think that way either, judging by what's going on in the thread subject. It was probably the neocons' mistake that they saw Iraq as its own state, rather than a piece in a multi-bloc puzzle that was better left alone. At the time, I opposed the invasion because I believed in the liberal argument of self determination. Nowadays, I have the same view except that I feel that the region is a hellhole not worth our effort. Muslims will do as Muslims will do, and it's none of our business, and we shouldn't beat ourselves up over how badly they treat each other.
    Who are you referring to? The states concerning this thread are nationalists and only two in the area have an Islamist national character. Neocons actually prefer your bloc view and disregarded Iraq's lack of democratic traditions, its history, and civil society. I agree with you that it's not worth the western effort because that effort has been severely incompetent. The problem is your militaristic view of a region with over 200 million people, thinking that it's a basket of clone states with the same way of life because of the headlines that grabbed your attention. The homogenous Muslim culture you're talking about has been outweighed by secular nationalism in a number of states there already, but that hasn't really shown itself to be any better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian
    Now, are you going to chastise me for holding views about other cultures that mean we shouldn't interfere in their affairs? Would you like to argue that we are all part of the same world, and thus we should involve ourselves fully in their affairs as they're also our affairs? What do you think of the Iraq invasion of 2003?
    Nope, just that your broadstrokes geopolitical views be expressed where they are relevant and not in a thread concerned with a small scale rift that has nothing to do with your grievances about Islam.

    For a guy who supposedly gave up on Muslims and their world, you sure do like to proffess that you gave up on them at every turn.
    Last edited by AE Bravo; 06-11-2017 at 17:16.

  14. #44
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
    Who are you referring to? The states concerning this thread are nationalists and only two in the area have an Islamist national character. Neocons actually prefer your bloc view and disregarded Iraq's lack of democratic traditions, its history, and civil society. I agree with you that it's not worth the western effort because that effort has been severely incompetent. The problem is your militaristic view of a region with over 200 million people, thinking that it's a basket of clone states with the same way of life because of the headlines that grabbed your attention. The homogenous Muslim culture you're talking about has been outweighed by secular nationalism in a number of states there already, but that hasn't really shown itself to be any better.

    Nope, just that your broadstrokes geopolitical views be expressed where they are relevant and not in a thread concerned with a small scale rift that has nothing to do with your grievances about Islam.

    For a guy who supposedly gave up on Muslims and their world, you sure do like to proffess that you gave up on them at every turn.
    Are we obliged to think well of the region and say they're jolly decent people and so on?

    And in Pakistan, someone has been sentenced to death for blasphemy, posting something on Facebook. And a while back, some university lecturers accused one of their students of blasphemy, resulting in a mob beating said student to death. And let's not forget a few years back, when a couple of high profile politicians who argued against the blasphemy law were assassinated, and their killers subsequently treated as martyrs (even here in the UK). And talking about the UK, how about that guy in Glasgow who was killed for being an ahmadiyya?

    If you disagree with broadstrokes, and want to distinguish between individual states, note the guy born of Libyan parents, who got upset by US bombings in Syria, and thus decided to kill kids in Manchester. Why did a Brit of Libyan descent get upset at what's happening in Syria? What did the Syrians have in common with him, if, as you say, the individual states have separate interests? And if he was upset at American actions, why did he take it out on British kids? If the Muslim states are individual and separate, are we westerners an indistinguishable bloc whose deaths are as good as one anothers?

    And in any case, why aren't we allowed to hold opinions about other countries that result in us having less to do with them? Plenty of people around the world hate Britain. That's their right. Why isn't this right reciprocated? Why are they allowed to dislike us, but we're not allowed to dislike them back?

  15. #45
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,456

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Comments under the video? Are you serious? Again forgot about troll factory?
    1. The boy was taken to the police department. It is not an arrest, it's detainment. Does it really make any difference? Doesn't it attempt to put a smoke screen over the real issue - the way the police treated a harmless nerdy kid?
    2. The police stated that it was for begging (they needed some justification, didn't they?), but he was not. He was reciting Hamlet's monologue in Arbat street - a place in Moscow traditionally full of artists, performers and other acting people and his STEPmother was filming him. Can it be taken for begging, especially when she was trying to protest the detainment? How come other people with similar activities were not detained on similar charges?
    3. I don't know about the intentions of the person who published the video (neither do "the commentators", don't they?), but it is genuine and it shows the realities of present day Russia. If it doesn't reflect a great credit on the authorities of the said country, is it the fault of the video or its author?
    For a troll factory, a single comment on a comment seems a little light, though I didn't read all the comments.
    When the police arrest him, the boy has a yellow bag or hat or whatever that he may have put in front of him to collect money. The part of the video that shows him reciting is so far zoomed in that the surroundings cannot be seen, it tells us nothing other than that he was talking about something. That I don't understand what they're all saying in Russian is not helping either way.

    If you say other artists there were not arrested for similar things, perhaps that is because they weren't begging? Also everyone who ever heard about Cinderella knows that evil step mothers make their step children work hard. Of course she was protesting since she will have to work herself if she can't send the boy anymore.

    And why would you expect me to believe everything anti-Putin at face value and assume "troll factory" every time someone says it's made up? That's like creating one's own echo chamber.
    Last edited by Husar; 06-11-2017 at 22:40.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  16. #46
    Intifadah Member Drish's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Kebabylon
    Posts
    816

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    So apparently, there is concern in the Gulf countries that a coalition of Saud, United Arab Emirates, and Egypt will invade Qatar very soon.

    Then of course, this happened:

    “Turkish troops are coming to Qatar for the sake of the security of the entire region,” Qatari Foreign Minister Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani said in Doha on June 8 while briefing the press on the recent crisis.

    In addition, Turkish gendarmes will train Qatari forces, approved under another deal between the two countries’ interior ministries in December 2015.
    "The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."


    I only defended myself and the honor of my family - Nazanin

  17. #47
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,706

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    I'm ok with the risk of Delhi belly if it means trying out different foods from different cultures. Although they'll be getting their ingredients from the local (British) market, so it's more like rummy tummy.
    I don't mean the diseases obtained AFTER EATING outlandish food. I figuratively referred to negative sides of bringing a large amount of people from all corners of the world to another country - from aggressive culture to, well, actual diseases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    For a troll factory, a single comment on a comment seems a little light, though I didn't read all the comments.
    When the police arrest him, the boy has a yellow bag or hat or whatever that he may have put in front of him to collect money. The part of the video that shows him reciting is so far zoomed in that the surroundings cannot be seen, it tells us nothing other than that he was talking about something. That I don't understand what they're all saying in Russian is not helping either way.

    If you say other artists there were not arrested for similar things, perhaps that is because they weren't begging? Also everyone who ever heard about Cinderella knows that evil step mothers make their step children work hard. Of course she was protesting since she will have to work herself if she can't send the boy anymore.

    And why would you expect me to believe everything anti-Putin at face value and assume "troll factory" every time someone says it's made up?
    But you believed one single comment? Even if he was begging - is it the way policemen should treat harmless kids?

    But I guess you are resorting to playing devils advocate just for the plain fun of it. And if you really mean it - well, you are entitiled to believe what you like. It seems it is easier for you to believe in cruel stepmothers (that it was not his mother you somehow believed without any additional proofs, didn't you?) than in groundlessly cruel law inforcement bodies in Russia.

    I wish you could follow a furious internet discussion of the accident. By Russians, that is - for you to be absolutely sure it wasn't anti-Putin lip service by disgruntled Ukrainians.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 06-12-2017 at 10:40.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  18. #48
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I don't mean the diseases obtained AFTER EATING outlandish food. I figuratively referred to negative sides of bringing a large amount of people from all corners of the world to another country - from aggressive culture to, well, actual diseases.
    Much of post-medieval English/British history is shaped by foreign foods and other stuff. Take the British Empire for instance, which came about because of the trade of an addictive substance between Britain and China.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Tea.

  19. #49
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,706

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Much of post-medieval English/British history is shaped by foreign foods and other stuff. Take the British Empire for instance, which came about because of the trade of an addictive substance between Britain and China.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Tea.
    So you will have to put up with this "other stuff" if you want to continue your gastronomic trips to Soho. One can't have only the best of other cultures without facing unintended adverse consequences of importing them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  20. #50
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    So you will have to put up with this "other stuff" if you want to continue your gastronomic trips to Soho. One can't have only the best of other cultures without facing unintended adverse consequences of importing them.
    We had the gastronomy in the past without the aggressive religion. Go back 25 years and Islam wasn't an issue in the UK. Just another religion in a country which did not want "windows into the souls of men". Even now, other cultures pose nowhere near the same problems as modern Islamism.

    It's a pity that Pakistan is no longer defined by subcontinental culture: food, cricket, music, films, etc. AFAIK there was a fair bit of crossover between Indian (Hindi?) street slang and Urdu. Instead, Pakistan is increasingly defined by Islam, and the most extreme interpretations of it at that. I used to admire the more devout Muslims in the Pakistan team. I now think they're indicative of more poisonous trends in their society. Rather than religion inspiring wide boys to clean up their lives, now people are afraid to criticise religion in society, as open criticism results in lynchings.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 06-12-2017 at 12:39.

  21. #51
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,456

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    But you believed one single comment? Even if he was begging - is it the way policemen should treat harmless kids?

    But I guess you are resorting to playing devils advocate just for the plain fun of it. And if you really mean it - well, you are entitiled to believe what you like. It seems it is easier for you to believe in cruel stepmothers (that it was not his mother you somehow believed without any additional proofs, didn't you?) than in groundlessly cruel law inforcement bodies in Russia.

    I wish you could follow a furious internet discussion of the accident. By Russians, that is - for you to be absolutely sure it wasn't anti-Putin lip service by disgruntled Ukrainians.
    Believe is a strong word, if the shrugging smiley signals a belief to you, you might want to take a class on interpreting expressions.
    Israeli policemen shoot kids because kids ain't harmless and Israel are the Good Guys™.

    And you're the one who mentioned it was his stepmother, am I to assume you're a liar?

    The point was that it's hard to know what happened for sure, at least for me. That Russian police are rather brutal is not news, it's an integral part of the wonderfully colourful Russian culture. If we can be allies with Saudi Arabia, where his (step-)mother wouldn't even be allowed to drive a car, then that is surely not an argument against loving Russia.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  22. #52
    Intifadah Member Drish's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Kebabylon
    Posts
    816

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Can we change the title of this thread to Qatar and maybe Turkey (except Turkey won’t quarrel with Saud), and perhaps supported by Iran vs Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Sisi’s Egypt – featuring US military personnel on both sides – also featuring special guest star the amazing silent Pakistan - also also featuring spicy food and kids in Russia?
    Last edited by Drish; 06-12-2017 at 13:39. Reason: Sorry, too much covfefe today!
    "The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."


    I only defended myself and the honor of my family - Nazanin

    Member thankful for this post:

    Husar 


  23. #53

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    I'd like some of the veterans to chime in here. Am I crazy or does Pannonian tend to argue against himself? The discussion was shifted away from hotspots towards the states concerned with this topic yet he keeps bringing them up like I am supposed to be accountable to all these traumatized countries neither I nor the parties in the subject of this topic have much in common with.

    I just want to know if I'm wasting my time responding here. Not interested in arguing in circles.

    Libya, Syria, Pakistan, what's your point? Am I supposed to blame Britain for Trump using the attacks in the UK as an opportunity to influence its immigration laws?

    Yes Pakistan is a hellhole but why is the Gulf made up of a massive Pakistani migrant population? Use your common sense. Not everybody fleeing Islamism goes to the UK.
    Last edited by AE Bravo; 06-12-2017 at 22:59.

  24. #54
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
    I'd like some of the veterans to chime in here. Am I crazy or does Pannonian tend to argue against himself? The discussion was shifted away from hotspots towards the states concerned with this topic yet he keeps bringing them up like I am supposed to be accountable to all these traumatized countries neither I nor the parties in the subject of this topic have much in common with.

    I just want to know if I'm wasting my time responding here. Not interested in arguing in circles.

    Libya, Syria, Pakistan, what's your point? Am I supposed to blame Britain for Trump using the attacks in the UK as an opportunity to influence its immigration laws?
    Blame? All I'm asking for is for the UK to have less to do with these countries that primarily identify themselves as Muslim, as we've had problems with people who identify themselves as Muslim over the Britain that they live in. Or aren't we allowed to have less to do with other countries now?

    Hell, the UK voted in 2016 to regain control of its borders, at the risk of a significant economic price. Should we harden our borders with the EU, but leave the border open for Muslim countries as Showtime plainly thinks we should?

  25. #55

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    That is not what I think at all. I agree with you that the UK should not involve itself into any mess abroad.

  26. #56
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
    That is not what I think at all. I agree with you that the UK should not involve itself into any mess abroad.
    And should we be allowed to govern our own borders as we wish?

  27. #57

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Absolutely, but that will discredit the faux liberal pretext to foreign policy and I'm afraid many don't realize that.

    Personally, I really don't care about the Muslims in the UK. UK can do with them as it wishes but don't think that they can send them back here - not happening, this is their mess. As far as I'm concerned the UK is a haven for terrorism and sorry they will not be allowed to re-export this due to the damage they have already done in the ME. You obviously have a population with severe grievances and if you choose to absolve your poor governance of any responsibility by blaming a religion, I couldn't care less. You can say Islam this and that all you want but you will find that these serial killers will not disappear as the country has a history of serial killing anyway, unlike other countries.

    The point is that you lack knowledge of the geopolitical reality of the ME. Your stance on intervention is a seperate issue. My problem was your inability to differentiate between societies where Islamism is prominent and where it is relegated or extinguished.
    Last edited by AE Bravo; 06-13-2017 at 00:29.

  28. #58
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,281

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    What separates Qatar from the other gulf states so much that this would happen? Here in the US, it was being reported that the shunning was because of al jazerras liberal reporting. I can't imagine that's the only reason.
    I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest. -Thoreau

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  29. #59
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    What separates Qatar from the other gulf states so much that this would happen? Here in the US, it was being reported that the shunning was because of al jazerras liberal reporting. I can't imagine that's the only reason.
    It might be indicative of an outlook independent from the Saudis, who want to assert their hegemony.

  30. #60
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,702

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
    Absolutely, but that will discredit the faux liberal pretext to foreign policy and I'm afraid many don't realize that.

    Personally, I really don't care about the Muslims in the UK. UK can do with them as it wishes but don't think that they can send them back here - not happening, this is their mess. As far as I'm concerned the UK is a haven for terrorism and sorry they will not be allowed to re-export this due to the damage they have already done in the ME. You obviously have a population with severe grievances and if you choose to absolve your poor governance of any responsibility by blaming a religion, I couldn't care less. You can say Islam this and that all you want but you will find that these serial killers will not disappear as the country has a history of serial killing anyway, unlike other countries.

    The point is that you lack knowledge of the geopolitical reality of the ME. Your stance on intervention is a seperate issue. My problem was your inability to differentiate between societies where Islamism is prominent and where it is relegated or extinguished.
    Islamism can emerge in societies where it was not previously evident. See Pakistan, which has historically been the UK's main source of Muslim migrants.

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO