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Thread: Qatar vs all others

  1. #61
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    The saudis don't have as cool a city as Doha. That's what this is about.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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  2. #62

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    What separates Qatar from the other gulf states so much that this would happen? Here in the US, it was being reported that the shunning was because of al jazerras liberal reporting. I can't imagine that's the only reason.
    As a first in the area the reasons are out there for the public to see and in an official capacity too.

    - AJ coverage of Yemen
    - Inciting 2011 Arab Spring movements in neighboring states
    - Relationship with Iran
    - Housing Brotherhood members and wanted criminals from nearby states
    - "Lack of commitment" in Yemen
    - Funding Hamas

    The straw that broke the camel's back was the hostage situation in Iraq where they paid a ransom, and a series of events before that involving literally planeloads of cash landing illegally in Iraq.
    https://www.ft.com/content/dd033082-...91d43?mhq5j=e2

    In depth article about it.

  3. #63
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    I will have to make time to read that, thank you.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  4. #64
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
    As a first in the area the reasons are out there for the public to see and in an official capacity too.

    - AJ coverage of Yemen
    - Inciting 2011 Arab Spring movements in neighboring states
    - Relationship with Iran
    - Housing Brotherhood members and wanted criminals from nearby states
    - "Lack of commitment" in Yemen
    - Funding Hamas

    The straw that broke the camel's back was the hostage situation in Iraq where they paid a ransom, and a series of events before that involving literally planeloads of cash landing illegally in Iraq.
    https://www.ft.com/content/dd033082-...91d43?mhq5j=e2

    In depth article about it.
    Western liberals thought this was a great thing. More freedom and democracy is good for the west in particular and the world in general!

  5. #65
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    We had the gastronomy in the past without the aggressive religion. Go back 25 years and Islam wasn't an issue in the UK.
    That is the way with foreign culture penetration. It starts with food. Then when the locals are familiar with it and even begin to to like it - you find that you are inside a China town.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    And you're the one who mentioned it was his stepmother, am I to assume you're a liar?
    You doubted all the rest of my information on the issue yet believed that the woman was his stepmother. Isn't it a strange way to pick the trustworthy facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    The point was that it's hard to know what happened for sure, at least for me.
    Yet you do have an explanation for yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    That Russian police are rather brutal is not news, it's an integral part of the wonderfully colourful Russian culture.
    Not only the police. It is noteworthy the Russian ombudsman for civil rights (or for children's rights, don't remember exactly) was totally on the side of the police.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  6. #66
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    That is the way with foreign culture penetration. It starts with food. Then when the locals are familiar with it and even begin to to like it - you find that you are inside a China town.
    Not much problem with that. Soho Chinatown is an excellent centre for Asian groceries and ingredients. I go quite often to restock on ramen and stuff. 5-10 minutes in either direction to Trafalgar Square and Oxford Street, with Leicester Square next door, so it's a convenient meeting place too, grabbing a bite from one of the nearby food shops while I wait. And if you're of that bent, Shaftesbury Avenue aka the West End is on the other side of Chinatown, so you can literally cross the road and have your pick of the big theatres. I've heard that 30 years ago Chinatown was even more of a centre for Asian culture, but most of that seems to have been assimilated into the semi-mainstream, with Chinatown itself mainly a centre for food. Good food though.

  7. #67
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Not much problem with that. Soho Chinatown is an excellent centre for Asian groceries and ingredients. I go quite often to restock on ramen and stuff. 5-10 minutes in either direction to Trafalgar Square and Oxford Street, with Leicester Square next door, so it's a convenient meeting place too, grabbing a bite from one of the nearby food shops while I wait. And if you're of that bent, Shaftesbury Avenue aka the West End is on the other side of Chinatown, so you can literally cross the road and have your pick of the big theatres. I've heard that 30 years ago Chinatown was even more of a centre for Asian culture, but most of that seems to have been assimilated into the semi-mainstream, with Chinatown itself mainly a centre for food. Good food though.
    China town is an example showing how ethnic neighborhoods develop. I doubt if you would find "Syria town" as much agreeable, though you may no doubt like the food.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  8. #68
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    China town is an example showing how ethnic neighborhoods develop. I doubt if you would find "Syria town" as much agreeable, though you may no doubt like the food.
    Chinatown and the Anglo-Chinese community is a typical example of how ethnic groups develop in the UK. Starting with an alien first generation, subsequent generations are born into the host nation and are largely indistinguishable culturally from the host culture (at least on the street). The host culture takes on aspects of the guest culture.

    If only Muslim culture was the same. I certainly used to think Pakistani culture was the same. The problem is it's not, uniquely among the guest cultures in the UK. And sadly, it didn't used to be the case, as there was quite a bit of friendly mixing of cultures in the 90s.

  9. #69
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Pakistan was a mistake to begin with.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
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  10. #70
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Pakistan was a mistake to begin with.
    There was a time, certainly among cricket fans, when Pakistan were the team/country to look to. Spinners, tapeball, gully cricket, everything Pakistan was fashionable. When I thought of Muslims, I thought of "Pakistan zindabad", not "Allahu Akbar".

  11. #71
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    There was a time, certainly among cricket fans, when Pakistan were the team/country to look to. Spinners, tapeball, gully cricket, everything Pakistan was fashionable. When I thought of Muslims, I thought of "Pakistan zindabad", not "Allahu Akbar".
    I am too young to remember that, what comes to mind I think when I think of Pakistan is kidnappers, extremists, murders, terrorists and pedophiles.

    Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq can rot in hell.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
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  12. #72
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The host culture takes on aspects of the guest culture.
    This is more the way i would like it to work, rather than what we see in practice.

    There are three broad ways of doing things:

    One extreme - normative multiculturalism with parallel communities. (Britain)
    The other extreme - you are french¬!!!! with ghettoes for those that haven't become french enough. (France)
    A happy medium - the melting pot - if 10% of the pop are immigrants, the natives become 10% foriegn and the immigrants 90% american. (USA)

    That is obviously simplifying things greatly, but i think both Britain and France could do with a closer look at the melting pot idea.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 06-13-2017 at 20:56.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  13. #73
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    This is more the way i would like it to work, rather than what we see in practice.

    There are three broad ways of doing things:

    One extreme - normative multiculturalism with parallel communities. (Britain)
    The other extreme - you are french¬!!!! with ghettoes for those that haven't become french enough. (France)
    A happy medium - the melting pot - if 10% of the pop are immigrants, the natives become 10% foriegn and the immigrants 90% american. (USA)

    That is obviously simplifying things greatly, but i think both Britain and France could do with a closer look at the melting pot idea.
    Have other non-Muslim cultures strengthened their parallel communities in the UK? AFAIK it's only the older members who are distinctively "other", and even they see themselves as guests in a host country. It's mostly been a hodgepodge fusion that existing Brits then claim is uniquely and typically British. Take out the Muslim issue, and there are hardly any cultural problems with the other cultures.

  14. #74
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    That is obviously simplifying things greatly, but i think both Britain and France could do with a closer look at the melting pot idea.
    So, your idea of great success is for immigrants to destroy the locals, confiscate their lands, put them in ghettos, signed whatever treaties you want as you have no intention to keep your word anyway... Interesting...
    The big flaw in your reasoning is both France and England, in their own way, have adsorbed immigration waves in the past. It is not perfect, but we will do the same again.
    As the idea of ghettos, I have to laugh... Problem is lack of jobs, urberisation and cuts, not "ghettos" which exists only in newspapers (and in some minds who dream to have populations to exploit), as shown in some reports from fox News that had to apologise later for them.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  15. #75
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    So, your idea of great success is for immigrants to destroy the locals, confiscate their lands, put them in ghettos, signed whatever treaties you want as you have no intention to keep your word anyway... Interesting...
    The big flaw in your reasoning is both France and England, in their own way, have adsorbed immigration waves in the past. It is not perfect, but we will do the same again.
    As the idea of ghettos, I have to laugh... Problem is lack of jobs, urberisation and cuts, not "ghettos" which exists only in newspapers (and in some minds who dream to have populations to exploit), as shown in some reports from fox News that had to apologise later for them.
    Read up on British Pakistanis. Not opinion pieces from white liberals. Actual descriptions by British Pakistanis of what's going on. Ghettoes are forming, not from social deprivation, or British marginalisation, but from ultra conservatives keeping their culture "pure". You're a Pratchett fan. Read Thud! and his other stories that feature deep delvers. That's a pretty good description of what's going on with the ultra conservative Muslims in the UK. Going by the French scale, translated to Islam, they're extreme far right. Goodness knows why you're trying to defend them.

  16. #76
    Intifadah Member Dâriűsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    In other news: Qatar has withdrawn its peacekeeping troops from the Djibouti/Eritrean border.

    By the way, here is a fun experiment for anyone who can read Arabic. Try going onto, for instance, UAE’s al-Arabiya and do a comparison on their English versus Arabic Qatar topics. In English they often lambast Qatar for their close ties to Hamas, Ikhwan, and Iran. In Arabic, they often criticize Qatar for their close relationship to Israel as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Pakistan was a mistake to begin with.
    Unlike British colonialism.
    "The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."


    I only defended myself and the honor of my family” - Nazanin

  17. #77
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Qararians will drink heavenly milk?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-milk-supplies
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  18. #78
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Qararians will drink heavenly milk?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-milk-supplies
    It's a pity they're haram, or we could have flying pigs as well.

  19. #79
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Unlike British colonialism.
    The only mistake made was forcing us to end it early. We could have a world of hong kongs instead of a pile of zimbabwes.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 06-14-2017 at 11:41.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


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  20. #80
    Intifadah Member Dâriűsh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    The only mistake made was forcing us to end it early. We could have a world of hong kongs instead of a pile of zimbabwes.
    Amazing.
    "The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."


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  21. #81
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    The British Empire is second only to Rome when it came to producing viable successor states.

    You want national self loathing, bother a guardian columnist. Or a German.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 06-14-2017 at 18:29.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
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  22. #82

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Don't you think it's pathetic (and third worldly) to have these wet dreams about the jolly old British empire guvna.

    They enslaved the globe for a tea fix, slaughtered tens of thousands of defenseless Africans to test the maxim gun, and forcefed the Chinese drugs against their own will to say the least.

    It's an inglorious history of stolen valor, bad teeth, and no showers. It would be better if you admired the high culture associated with the time period of your history rather than the severe injustices that haunt it to this day.

  23. #83
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    They enslaved the globe for a tea fix, slaughtered tens of thousands of defenseless Africans to test the maxim gun, and forcefed the Chinese drugs against their own will to say the least.
    Don't you think it's pathetic to be so jealous of another's laurel strewn national legacy that you produce blatant fabrications to slander a state that already has plenty of blood in it's past to deny sainthood?

    Or do you actually believe the first two tall tales truly transpired?
    Last edited by Greyblades; 06-14-2017 at 18:53.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
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  24. #84

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    The British Empire is second only to Rome when it came to producing viable successor states.

    You want national self loathing, bother a guardian columnist. Or a German.
    Which are the successor states of the Roman Empire you identify, and what successor states of the British Empire are there other than the United Kingdom?
    Vitiate Man.

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  25. #85
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Which are the successor states of the Roman Empire you identify, and what successor states of the British Empire are there other than the United Kingdom?
    Latin speaking states and English speaking states? AFAIK you live in one of them.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Latin speaking states and English speaking states? AFAIK you live in one of them.
    If you count most of Europe as comprising Roman successor states, then it's not clear which criteria could designate the United States as a "successor" state. Do you think of the Commonwealth as successors?

    Russia, for instance, is considered a successor to the Soviet Union because it assumed most of the legal designations and obligations of the defunct Union, and was itself the most significant component of the Union.
    Vitiate Man.

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  27. #87
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    If you count most of Europe as comprising Roman successor states, then it's not clear which criteria could designate the United States as a "successor" state. Do you think of the Commonwealth as successors?

    Russia, for instance, is considered a successor to the Soviet Union because it assumed most of the legal designations and obligations of the defunct Union, and was itself the most significant component of the Union.
    You're probably talking different definitions of successor state. Your definition admits only one successor state, and there can be no successor as the original still exists. GB's definition follows the example of the Alexandrian successors, which descended from and developed from the Alexandrian original. Or more specifically, the Roman successors, which claimed cultural and spiritual descent from the original even as they were cut loose.

  28. #88
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
    Don't you think it's pathetic (and third worldly) to have these wet dreams about the jolly old British empire guvna.
    His knowledge of British colonial rule starts and ends with Hong Kong.

    Somalia, Egypt, Ghana, Uganda, Pakistan, Burma, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Tanzania, Jamaica, Botswana, Kenya, Nigeria, Cameroon, Sierra Leone, India, Guyana...

    His knowledge is rather limited in general, so don't be too surprised when he drops a line like that.

  29. #89

    Default Re: Qatar vs all others

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    You're probably talking different definitions of successor state. Your definition admits only one successor state, and there can be no successor as the original still exists. GB's definition follows the example of the Alexandrian successors, which descended from and developed from the Alexandrian original. Or more specifically, the Roman successors, which claimed cultural and spiritual descent from the original even as they were cut loose.
    Not at all: the Soviet Union has numerous successors, for its numerous republics. The successor relationship is specifically one of direct territorial, legal, and administrative descent. The Diadochoi were constituted exactly from the administrative extent of Alexander's empire. Rule or influence at some point is not what describes a successor.

    Roman successors - do you mean contemporarily, or the modern world? The former, the Eastern Empire is the obvious successor, along with the various Gothic and Frankish fiefdoms. Certainly important in European history, but not appropriate to discuss in our terms of "successful state". The latter, we could just as well call Egypt, Turkey, Russia and the UK Roman successors if we're going by even the most distant cultural relationship.

    Bottom line, a successor should probably be succeeding something. If you mean Anglophone countries, just say Anglophone countries.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 06-14-2017 at 20:23.
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  30. #90
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    His knowledge of British colonial rule starts and ends with Hong Kong.

    Somalia, Egypt, Ghana, Uganda, Pakistan, Burma, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Tanzania, Jamaica, Botswana, Kenya, Nigeria, Cameroon, Sierra Leone, India, Guyana...

    His knowledge is rather limited in general, so don't be too surprised when he drops a line like that.
    Out of that list, Somalia was half Italian (which the former British bit wants independence from), Cameroon half French (as CamFranglais is the language of choice), Indonesia used to be called the Dutch East Indies, so the British rule there lasted as long as the British rule in Vietnam (aka French Indochina).

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