Qatar vs all others

**Pannonian** · 06-12-2017, 23:03

Originally Posted by Showtime

I'd like some of the veterans to chime in here. Am I crazy or does Pannonian tend to argue against himself? The discussion was shifted away from hotspots towards the states concerned with this topic yet he keeps bringing them up like I am supposed to be accountable to all these traumatized countries neither I nor the parties in the subject of this topic have much in common with.

I just want to know if I'm wasting my time responding here. Not interested in arguing in circles.

Libya, Syria, Pakistan, what's your point? Am I supposed to blame Britain for Trump using the attacks in the UK as an opportunity to influence its immigration laws?

Blame? All I'm asking for is for the UK to have less to do with these countries that primarily identify themselves as Muslim, as we've had problems with people who identify themselves as Muslim over the Britain that they live in. Or aren't we allowed to have less to do with other countries now?

Hell, the UK voted in 2016 to regain control of its borders, at the risk of a significant economic price. Should we harden our borders with the EU, but leave the border open for Muslim countries as Showtime plainly thinks we should?

**AE Bravo** · 06-12-2017, 23:19

That is not what I think at all. I agree with you that the UK should not involve itself into any mess abroad.

**Pannonian** · 06-12-2017, 23:51

Originally Posted by Showtime

That is not what I think at all. I agree with you that the UK should not involve itself into any mess abroad.

And should we be allowed to govern our own borders as we wish?

**AE Bravo** · 06-13-2017, 00:16

Absolutely, but that will discredit the faux liberal pretext to foreign policy and I'm afraid many don't realize that.

Personally, I really don't care about the Muslims in the UK. UK can do with them as it wishes but don't think that they can send them back here - not happening, this is their mess. As far as I'm concerned the UK is a haven for terrorism and sorry they will not be allowed to re-export this due to the damage they have already done in the ME. You obviously have a population with severe grievances and if you choose to absolve your poor governance of any responsibility by blaming a religion, I couldn't care less. You can say Islam this and that all you want but you will find that these serial killers will not disappear as the country has a history of serial killing anyway, unlike other countries.

The point is that you lack knowledge of the geopolitical reality of the ME. Your stance on intervention is a seperate issue. My problem was your inability to differentiate between societies where Islamism is prominent and where it is relegated or extinguished.

**Strike For The South** · 06-13-2017, 05:14

What separates Qatar from the other gulf states so much that this would happen? Here in the US, it was being reported that the shunning was because of al jazerras liberal reporting. I can't imagine that's the only reason.

**Pannonian** · 06-13-2017, 05:19

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

What separates Qatar from the other gulf states so much that this would happen? Here in the US, it was being reported that the shunning was because of al jazerras liberal reporting. I can't imagine that's the only reason.

It might be indicative of an outlook independent from the Saudis, who want to assert their hegemony.

**Strike For The South** · 06-13-2017, 05:23

The saudis don't have as cool a city as Doha. That's what this is about.

**AE Bravo** · 06-13-2017, 05:34

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

What separates Qatar from the other gulf states so much that this would happen? Here in the US, it was being reported that the shunning was because of al jazerras liberal reporting. I can't imagine that's the only reason.

As a first in the area the reasons are out there for the public to see and in an official capacity too.

- AJ coverage of Yemen
- Inciting 2011 Arab Spring movements in neighboring states
- Relationship with Iran
- Housing Brotherhood members and wanted criminals from nearby states
- "Lack of commitment" in Yemen
- Funding Hamas

The straw that broke the camel's back was the hostage situation in Iraq where they paid a ransom, and a series of events before that involving literally planeloads of cash landing illegally in Iraq.
https://www.ft.com/content/dd033082-...91d43?mhq5j=e2

In depth article about it.

**Strike For The South** · 06-13-2017, 05:42

I will have to make time to read that, thank you.

**Pannonian** · 06-13-2017, 06:03

Originally Posted by Showtime

As a first in the area the reasons are out there for the public to see and in an official capacity too.

- AJ coverage of Yemen
- Inciting 2011 Arab Spring movements in neighboring states
- Relationship with Iran
- Housing Brotherhood members and wanted criminals from nearby states
- "Lack of commitment" in Yemen
- Funding Hamas

The straw that broke the camel's back was the hostage situation in Iraq where they paid a ransom, and a series of events before that involving literally planeloads of cash landing illegally in Iraq.
https://www.ft.com/content/dd033082-...91d43?mhq5j=e2

In depth article about it.

Western liberals thought this was a great thing. More freedom and democracy is good for the west in particular and the world in general!

**Pannonian** · 06-13-2017, 05:23

Originally Posted by Showtime

Absolutely, but that will discredit the faux liberal pretext to foreign policy and I'm afraid many don't realize that.

Personally, I really don't care about the Muslims in the UK. UK can do with them as it wishes but don't think that they can send them back here - not happening, this is their mess. As far as I'm concerned the UK is a haven for terrorism and sorry they will not be allowed to re-export this due to the damage they have already done in the ME. You obviously have a population with severe grievances and if you choose to absolve your poor governance of any responsibility by blaming a religion, I couldn't care less. You can say Islam this and that all you want but you will find that these serial killers will not disappear as the country has a history of serial killing anyway, unlike other countries.

The point is that you lack knowledge of the geopolitical reality of the ME. Your stance on intervention is a seperate issue. My problem was your inability to differentiate between societies where Islamism is prominent and where it is relegated or extinguished.

Islamism can emerge in societies where it was not previously evident. See Pakistan, which has historically been the UK's main source of Muslim migrants.