Policing In America

[Strike For The South]

1. Police in America are poorly trained
2. Police in America are over armed
3. Policing in America overly focuses their efforts upon the black community
4. When taking into account 1 & 2, 3 becomes pretty deadly

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/u...tile.html?_r=0

So a couple of days ago the Castile trail came to an end. The Jury acquitted Officer Yanez on the charge of manslaughter. It appears that Yanez panicked and shot Castile because he thought Castile was reaching for his weapon. This is a bunch of horse shit. Castile was licensed to carry, and informed the officer of his weapon. Yanez lost control when Castile reached for his drivers license, as instructed. He made no efforts to diffuse the situation.

Of course the usual suspects are out in force. Castile may or may not have been using marijuana. There is also a rumor making the rounds that Castiles weapon was on his lap, which is totally false.

The NRA has basically had rift within itself. Despite the window dressing, the power brokers within that organization are hardcore law and order types who will back local police departments. They will set up a defense fund if you shoot someone in the back, but not if you get shot by a cop. Some lower level members have pointed out this hypocrisy and yet we still have crickets.

There is a systemic problem with policing in America. Local police departments have too much leeway and too little over sight. This affects all Americans negatively. However, Black Americans are killed by the police are more than double their share of the population. This is not a problem that affects all of us equally.

[a completely inoffensive name]

It's a problem that can only be rectified by the local communities themselves. The Federal Government cannot (logistically) oversee every police department in the country.

Yanez is simply a continuation of Rodney King. Willful deference to law and order at all costs. The reasoning behind this among American society is complex and steeped in lingering racism, and I am afraid that positive reforms will likely continue to arrive as a last minute reflex to racial riots.

[Sarmatian]

Why haven't you mentioned the legal system as a problem? There are two separate issues here - the first deals with how stop this from happening in the future, and the second with how to make sure justice is served when it does happen.

I don't remember a single case when a police officer was convicted. Usually, they're not even charged.

[Beskar]

In the UK, there is a lot tradition of community policing. I believe Clinton tried introducing it in 1994 to the USA. Has it had a positive effect or is it still not fully implemented?

[Pannonian]

In the UK, there is a lot tradition of community policing. I believe Clinton tried introducing it in 1994 to the USA. Has it had a positive effect or is it still not fully implemented?

Would community police be that much better when the locality is awash in guns? If there's a high probability of encountering guns on your patrol, I'd imagine any police patrol would be on edge somewhat. There are lots of policing ideas that are possible here but not in the US because we don't have a gun culture.

[Beskar]

Would community police be that much better when the locality is awash in guns? If there's a high probability of encountering guns on your patrol, I'd imagine any police patrol would be on edge somewhat. There are lots of policing ideas that are possible here but not in the US because we don't have a gun culture.

There is examples of it within the Free Syrian holdings. They intentionally do not have guns and it they get a warm response with the locals.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39458062

Unless you are suggesting that the USA is worse than war-torn Syria in midst of a civil war...

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why haven't you mentioned the legal system as a problem? There are two separate issues here - the first deals with how stop this from happening in the future, and the second with how to make sure justice is served when it does happen.

I don't remember a single case when a police officer was convicted. Usually, they're not even charged.

What can the legal system do when juries acquit police officers who are on camera pumping unarmed black men full of bullets?
Either you do away with juries or you must reform the heart of American culture.

[Montmorency]

Why haven't you mentioned the legal system as a problem? There are two separate issues here - the first deals with how stop this from happening in the future, and the second with how to make sure justice is served when it does happen.

I don't remember a single case when a police officer was convicted. Usually, they're not even charged.

What can the legal system do when juries acquit police officers who are on camera pumping unarmed black men full of bullets?
Either you do away with juries or you must reform the heart of American culture.

Isn't this a consequence of the special immunities and authorities invested into the police? Often we can say in egregious cases like Castile's the officers failed to act according to training and guidelines, but these do not have normal legal force.

It usually takes the involvement of outright premeditated killing or profound organized corruption to convict an officer, whether on murder/manslaughter or other crimes. It's also why juries almost never even indict - the nature of the act by a police officer does not tend toward lawbreaking.

Police need some level of immunity or different standards to do their normal work effectively, and I don't know to say what changes in that respect should be applied to the current order specifically.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Isn't this a consequence of the special immunities and authorities invested into the police? Often we can say in egregious cases like Castile's the officers failed to act according to training and guidelines, but these do not have normal legal force.

It usually takes the involvement of outright premeditated killing or profound organized corruption to convict an officer, whether on murder/manslaughter or other crimes. It's also why juries almost never even indict - the nature of the act by a police officer does not tend toward lawbreaking.

Police need some level of immunity or different standards to do their normal work effectively, and I don't know to say what changes in that respect should be applied to the current order specifically.

At even the highest levels, immunity has limitations. Contrary to Nixon just because the president does it, does not mean its legal. Now, someone like Strike would have a better knowledge of what the current limitations are for police, but I think common sense could be applied here that police obviously have a wide discretion to use various levels of force up to an including lethal granted that certain conditions don't apply.

What those conditions would be would need to be hammered out by people with a lot more knowledge of how police operate in the field and legal experts.

[Sarmatian]

What can the legal system do when juries acquit police officers who are on camera pumping unarmed black men full of bullets?
Either you do away with juries or you must reform the heart of American culture.

That is certainly one possibility. I'm not going to say I have the answer right here, but it isn't identified as problem. That's what I find weird.

I remember an article I read that juries in US have convicted in over 80% of cases, while judges have done it in around 50%. Juries over-convict, but when it comes to police officers, they almost never convict. Jury system appears to be what is allowing racism and other issues to linger in America.

It might be one possible solution (removing juries) from a wider selection, but no one can work on a solution until the problem is acknowledged.

[a completely inoffensive name]

...

[Fragony]

Drugs is pretty universal, but gang-culture is not (you could bring up motorgangs of course), but in general gang-culture is more of a black thing. I can't take these Black life Muppets and social-justice millenials very serious

[Husar]

Define "gang culture".
Is it comparable to Durch culture or is it the equivalent of cheese culture?
Does everyone in a community have it, is it a sub-culture and where and which people do have it?

[Fragony]

Do we make raps about cheese?

[Idaho]

[Strike For The South]

I meant to post this in the Charlottesville thread but it is locked.

153 years ago today Robert Edward Lee surrendered to Ulysses S Grant at Appomattox, the civil war ended, and the Republic was restored.


It would be another 99 for Black Americans to receive their full rights (on paper). It is the nations greatest black mark and it is the fulcrum upon which all domestic policy still turns. From redlining to police violence, there are vestiges of the salve state that continue to work all around us. Vestiges that we should work to end. A great first step is listening, don't interrupt, just listen. A great second step is reflection.

America is disconcerting and uncertain times. Uncertainty can lead to fear. Fear makes people want control. That desire for control manifests itself in pain and hatred. It is difficult to excise fear, but we must try.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Drugs is pretty universal, but gang-culture is not (you could bring up motorgangs of course), but in general gang-culture is more of a black thing. I can't take these Black life Muppets and social-justice millenials very serious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York

[Fragony]

19th century America, that changes the debate completily! Suddenly todays problems just dissapeares *poof*

Might seem clever to you but I think it's dumb. It's the same as assuming that Germany never changed and are all closet nazi's. Today is now. Problems are now. By all means take the vaccination called political correctness and relativation if reality disturbs you too much

Awesome movie by the way

[Husar]

19th century America, that changes the debate completily! Suddenly todays problems just dissapeares *poof*

Might seem clever to you but I think it's dumb. It's the same as assuming that Germany never changed and are all closet nazi's. Today is now. Problems are now. By all means take the vaccination called political correctness and relativation if reality disturbs you too much

Awesome movie by the way

Why?

[Sarmatian]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York

Thank you very much. Now I have to watch that again.

[Fragony]

Thank you very much. Now I have to watch that again.

Absolutily a must, Butcher Bill is an awesome villain, truly scary