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  1. #1

    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    So in a game with Self-meta analysis, meta analysis, and analysis of one's self meta. I'm just kind of trying to muddle through the white noise. It's probably very useful to those here.

    That being said a couple of things did stand out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    Oh, I forgot about something critical. Vote: Csargo. It really looks like you are trying to powerwolf from my perspective, and while I may end up voting a townie who just wants to try hard, hit a scum, soar high, and then get shot down by scum, I feel like this kind of early aggressive pushing is more commonly seen from scum on this forum.
    In a vacuum that I currently find myself in this has been the scummiest single post I've seen so far. I know it was addressed later as DP trying to say that he was trying to prove that he was thinking about it and was pre-thinking of arguments and counter points, which I still think is a bad explanation for the post. If he just stopped with the discussion about him being a powerwolf, and the forum meta read, I would have been fine. Maybe attributing to what I think when I'm scum is unfair, but pre planning answers to arguments is not something I tend to do if my intentions are good. Also a pre-emptive NK analysis seems suspect too.

    In the end it did feel like DP put a lot of thought into this post, but more thought then was necessary.

    Here's something to break up the post and to separate the thoughts.



    The second thing that stands out to me is Barto's pressure of me and subsequent ignorance of it, even after I addressed it in a non-commital, half confrontational way. Early pressure and votes seem to be a rather important part of the meta here. So I kind of have a question that i hope doesn't get lost in this wall of text that's forming. With new players, how likely is a null read lynch likely to happen? Is it kind of a courtesy policy to not lynch a new player in that situation?

    If the answer is yes to this question, would a town not reroll for pressure? Further if Bart is scum, it's an easy vote to place knowing it won't get much traction and likely little information, but still appears like he's participating by deliberately picking a weak vote on a not likely to be lynched target.

    If he kept pressuring me after my response I'd feel better about this interaction. Playing the helpful townie explaining how the pressure works here, asking if I'm just not going to respond to pressure, are just two options I would have liked to have seen among many. There's a precedent for players not responding to early pressure that has already been stated in thread, but with no meta to read on me there's no way he'd know this. Instead of pushing more, he ignores the interaction entirely then votes for low hanging fruit with some built-in cover. (The Cover being CSARGO and ASTPG who I have slight town reads for different reasons...ASTPG mainly for his insistence that he was going to bed and then not actually going to bed and still posting in thread).

    SOOOOOOO

    Vote: El Barto

    With Bart voting for him, I think DP is likely telling the truth about being unable to participate and just made a bad post (from my perspective), and Barto is trying to cash in on the opportunity to get in some low information participation votes early.

  2. #2
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredwood View Post
    So I kind of have a question that i hope doesn't get lost in this wall of text that's forming. With new players, how likely is a null read lynch likely to happen? Is it kind of a courtesy policy to not lynch a new player in that situation?

    If the answer is yes to this question, would a town not reroll for pressure?
    I'm not that at home on this forum, but I would venture that the answer is "sort of". It's like on most forums I guess, in that people try to give the new guy a chance, but when it comes down to it they end up as the default lynch anyway. That's how it is on RealmsBeyond at least, where I've played most of my games.

  3. #3

    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by novice View Post
    I'm not that at home on this forum, but I would venture that the answer is "sort of". It's like on most forums I guess, in that people try to give the new guy a chance, but when it comes down to it they end up as the default lynch anyway. That's how it is on RealmsBeyond at least, where I've played most of my games.
    So as the basis for my read, does him rolling a random new guy for pressure give you any useful information? Do you think the answer is enough for me to reassess my read?

    As for Cuth: I'm a stickler for misrepresentation usually but Cut's post didn't ping me as misrepresentation when I read it. I'll grant that I didn't look back at Monty and DP's interaction though.

  4. #4
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]



    Sup.
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  5. #5
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Ok after sleep and a quick re-read of the whole game, these are my contrarian thoughts.

    What is so towny about Jowy? Help me out here. I'm not seeing it. Lot of people saying Jowy is townie but I didn't see anything alignment indicative to me. So someone knows something about Jowy that I don't. Sell me if you're selling.
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    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Ok after sleep and a quick re-read of the whole game, these are my contrarian thoughts.

    What is so towny about Jowy? Help me out here. I'm not seeing it. Lot of people saying Jowy is townie but I didn't see anything alignment indicative to me. So someone knows something about Jowy that I don't. Sell me if you're selling.
    I think I actually agree with this statement. I only gave him a single town point for keeping to his meta, which really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, and I would like to see more from him at this stage.

  7. #7
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Tally as of post 360

    Tally as of post 360:

    Lynch votes
    3 votes: Dp101 (Csargo, Askthepizzaguy, El Barto)
    2 votes: El Barto (crimson_snow, Fredwood)
    1 votes: Autolycus (Jowy)
    1 votes: Manasi (Champ)
    1 votes: Novice (autolycus)
    1 votes: Winston Hughes (Logic)
    1 votes: Champ (Manasi)
    1 votes: Sooh (BSmith)
    1 votes: No Lynch (Montmorency)
    1 votes: Csargo (Dp101)
    1 votes: monty (Cuthillius)
    1 votes: Cuthilius (novice)

    Voting history:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    Manasi
    Quote Originally Posted by Manasi View Post
    Champ
    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    No Lynch
    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Fredwood
    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    Dp101
    Quote Originally Posted by crimson_snow View Post
    No Lynch
    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Askthepizzaguy
    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    crimson_snow
    Quote Originally Posted by crimson_snow View Post
    Askthepizzaguy
    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Novice
    Quote Originally Posted by autolycus View Post
    Novice
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic View Post
    Winston Hughes
    Quote Originally Posted by Jowy View Post
    Autolycus
    Quote Originally Posted by BSmith View Post
    Sooh
    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    Manasi
    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    El barto
    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    ATPG
    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    Dp101
    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    dp101
    Quote Originally Posted by crimson_snow View Post
    Cuthillius
    Quote Originally Posted by crimson_snow View Post
    El Barto
    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Dp101
    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    Csargo
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuthillius View Post
    monty
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredwood View Post
    El Barto
    Quote Originally Posted by novice View Post
    Cuthilius

  8. #8
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    What is so towny about Jowy? Help me out here. I'm not seeing it. Lot of people saying Jowy is townie but I didn't see anything alignment indicative to me.
    For me it's that he's interacting intelligently with the thread. Maybe it shouldn't be alignment indicative, but it's giving me warm fuzzy feelings.

    What's so scummy about Jowy?

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by novice View Post
    For me it's that he's interacting intelligently with the thread. Maybe it shouldn't be alignment indicative, but it's giving me warm fuzzy feelings.

    What's so scummy about Jowy?
    He has a wolfy agenda and a small footprint. His process is also badly conflicting with his actual pushes.
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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    My feeling about csargo was that I liked his methods and style and risk-taking this game, but I cannot say he's especially towny.

    In fact, if dp101 is town especially, I feel like csargo could be taking advantage of my friendly posture towards him in recent games, knowing that I am a csargo fan and want to see him town well.

    At least, that's the unspoken vibe I'm getting.

    I don't have a specifically scum read on him, no case, I just feel a bit taken for a ride, as a good possibility.
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  11. #11
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Feel better about Cuth but no strong lean yet. He's not out of any zone.

    Monty, no bet. His process and reads across games seem ass-backwards to me, and he's not revealing a lot about himself this game.

    So, he'll always be tough to read. But I don't have a scum lean there.
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  12. #12
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Not comfortable with Novice, not comfortable with Fredwood. Will re-read both.
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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Not going to get on Winston's case yet or Sooh's or Auto's or BSmith's for not posting much yet.

    This game and this site too casual to press on that kind of thing, so enjoy your free round. I want to see a process I can understand, and 4 townies and a scum lean by midday D2 from each of you. 2 townies a day is not hard to find.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    My feeling about csargo was that I liked his methods and style and risk-taking this game, but I cannot say he's especially towny.

    In fact, if dp101 is town especially, I feel like csargo could be taking advantage of my friendly posture towards him in recent games, knowing that I am a csargo fan and want to see him town well.

    At least, that's the unspoken vibe I'm getting.

    I don't have a specifically scum read on him, no case, I just feel a bit taken for a ride, as a good possibility.
    I genuinely think Dp is scum, so I make no apologies for pushing/voting him. If I'm wrong, then so be it, but I don't think I am. I also hate the theories pushed by C_S/novice just fyi. This is D1, and the pressure Dp has been under is moderate, but not terribly severe I don't think. Not enough to make a townie post poorly imo, so those arguments make me sad.

    Enjoy the paranoia about me though, that's always nice. Gearing up to lynch me tomorrow, or maybe today ATPG? I won't go gently into that good night, so just be warned. Do you see any parallels between this game and the Pokemon one ATPG from me? I don't understand why you're trying to throw shade on me right now, considering in this game, you've got the most experience playing with me. I just find it terribly odd. If you come after me though, at least it'll be fun.

    I hope you enjoy the ride ATPG :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  15. #15
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    I genuinely think Dp is scum, so I make no apologies for pushing/voting him. If I'm wrong, then so be it, but I don't think I am. I also hate the theories pushed by C_S/novice just fyi. This is D1, and the pressure Dp has been under is moderate, but not terribly severe I don't think. Not enough to make a townie post poorly imo, so those arguments make me sad.

    Enjoy the paranoia about me though, that's always nice. Gearing up to lynch me tomorrow, or maybe today ATPG? I won't go gently into that good night, so just be warned. Do you see any parallels between this game and the Pokemon one ATPG from me? I don't understand why you're trying to throw shade on me right now, considering in this game, you've got the most experience playing with me. I just find it terribly odd. If you come after me though, at least it'll be fun.

    I hope you enjoy the ride ATPG :)

    The second paragraph here feels very scummy to me, but I also can't explain why. I just can't come up with a single reason for scum to ever actually post it, in this situation, but the tone of it is horrible regardless.

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    I genuinely think Dp is scum, so I make no apologies for pushing/voting him. If I'm wrong, then so be it, but I don't think I am. I also hate the theories pushed by C_S/novice just fyi. This is D1, and the pressure Dp has been under is moderate, but not terribly severe I don't think. Not enough to make a townie post poorly imo, so those arguments make me sad.

    Enjoy the paranoia about me though, that's always nice. Gearing up to lynch me tomorrow, or maybe today ATPG? I won't go gently into that good night, so just be warned. Do you see any parallels between this game and the Pokemon one ATPG from me? I don't understand why you're trying to throw shade on me right now, considering in this game, you've got the most experience playing with me. I just find it terribly odd. If you come after me though, at least it'll be fun.

    I hope you enjoy the ride ATPG :)
    Almost done with all isos, wanted to respond to this.

    No, I don't think I'm considering you for a lynch until near final-whatever. Looking over your iso, I saw much townie-ness that I wasn't feeling in real time because I was focusing my attention elsewhere, and then felt sudden paranoia about you being a power wolf.

    The iso is really solid though. Maybe your best town game I've seen in ages.

    One thing though, I have a lot of experience playing with you, but I've never been comfortable reading your alignment confidently because you were, for most of those games, a 1 or few post a round player and your footprint is small and your thoughts are focused on few people at a time. You also don't rustle or really react to pressure, so I have no idea how to forcibly read you without your cooperation in most games.

    I need a long vote history from you and a chance to "read the room" and see others' attitudes toward you to read you.

    Here, after just your d1 iso, I feel confident again. And I don't think I've ever felt that way before.
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    Enjoy the paranoia about me though, that's always nice. Gearing up to lynch me tomorrow, or maybe today ATPG? I won't go gently into that good night, so just be warned. Do you see any parallels between this game and the Pokemon one ATPG from me? I don't understand why you're trying to throw shade on me right now, considering in this game, you've got the most experience playing with me. I just find it terribly odd. If you come after me though, at least it'll be fun.
    This post doesn't sit well with me because a little earlier, Csargo mentioned that he changes up his style a lot.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.

    Member thankful for this post:

    Csargo 


  18. #18
    Member Member novice's Avatar
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    Default Re: XCOM Mafia [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredwood View Post
    So as the basis for my read, does him rolling a random new guy for pressure give you any useful information? Do you think the answer is enough for me to reassess my read?
    Let's see: I didn't think you had much of a point because I thought you were just referring to a random opening vote, but he does indeed follow up with specifically asking you to respond to the vote, which you then brush off.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Oh, I do love Eddie Izzard.

    I hope you have noticed that I am voting for you to be hanged from the neck until you die.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredwood View Post
    Cake please.

    Seems like a you problem not a me problem. I guess I could beg but if I get lynched day 1 in my first game, then I get lynched day 1 in my first game. The Random gods must be sated.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    hahahhahahahahahahaahhaahahahahahahha
    Enough is enough.

    I would have voted crimson_snow first as a matter of policy, but you do not get to do this and live.

    vote: Dp101
    So I'd say El Barto's later switch to Dp without further comment warrants an explanation from El Barto, yes. Enough for a vote? Sure, on day 1.

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