XCOM Mafia [Concluded]

[Fredwood]

Any specific reason for the "not good" read? I mean Dp piled onto your vague read as well with no chance to address what's scummy.

I mean is it the reaction test, the asking a questions about the Day 1 lynch meta, my read on Bart, stating things that stood out to me? I mean, it's cool that you read me bad, but you're also not giving me a chance to say anything about what you think is bad. Or is it just vague and indefensible at this point, I mean I"m not really getting blow back on the bart thing telling me I'm wrong either, so (shrug) I guess.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Any specific reason for the "not good" read? I mean Dp piled onto your vague read as well with no chance to address what's scummy.

I mean is it the reaction test, the asking a questions about the Day 1 lynch meta, my read on Bart, stating things that stood out to me? I mean, it's cool that you read me bad, but you're also not giving me a chance to say anything about what you think is bad. Or is it just vague and indefensible at this point, I mean I"m not really getting blow back on the bart thing telling me I'm wrong either, so (shrug) I guess.

You don't feel townie to me.

Process is odd to me, lots of null posts and non-solving questions. Filler, to me.

I'm not planning on voting for you today, but you should focus more on finding townies and hunting scums than caring about my vague suspicions.

It's cool to care about my suspicions, but you should be doing something right now other than that / in addition to.

[Fredwood]

You don't feel townie to me.

Process is odd to me, lots of null posts and non-solving questions. Filler, to me.

I'm not planning on voting for you today, but you should focus more on finding townies and hunting scums than caring about my vague suspicions.

It's cool to care about my suspicions, but you should be doing something right now other than that / in addition to.

lol

So what I saw with Barts vote and dismissal was a null push and asking non-solving questions? I don't see how, I literally said he was my top scummread today and stated why, then asked if I should rethink the read (no one has even addressed it outside of novice). I thought it was based on his lax pressure vote and ignoring of my response (which I thought was a bit scum), then cleared 3 people that I likely think are town. I have no input on the meta-analysis that is rampant currently, and I still gave my strongest reads with rather specific reasons for them.

And I am scum hunting, this is why I'm asking you this question. In my mind it was super specific in the reasons I was voting and not voting for those people (with the exception of CS),for you to say it wasn't either means there's a disconnect either intentionally or unintentionally. If it was a bad read for bad reasons, I can handle the critique, it's kind of why I'm playing here, to actually get better.

[Jowy]

Pizza preferring to send a naked vote and ignoring my reply to him and my question to him is duly noted. His effort levels have been high, but actions will need to be towny as well otherwise his effort is just a smokescreen to excuse killing townies.

[Askthepizzaguy]

[Winston Hughes]

@Manasi

You seem to have missed it the first time, but I'd still like an answer to this:

Winston's entrance towny, Logic's reaction also towny.

On both counts, why?

[Winston Hughes]

Incidentally, it took me nearly five minutes to work out how to do that mention.

Please feel free to laugh at my ineptitude, but remember that, with any luck, you'll all be old one day too.

[Winston Hughes]

I'll catch up properly later on, but a scan of events in my absence leaves Jowy, pizza, and Csargo looking good.

Jowy because if this is his scum game, it's improved radically since I saw it last.

pizza because it feels like he's more focused on actual scumhunting than the appearance thereof.

And Csargo because the only way I think he'd be having this much fun as scum is if pizza was his buddy.

Also, my gut agrees with pizza that Monty could be third party. In contrast to Csargo it doesn't feel like he's really enjoying himself, which would be unusual for him as either town or scum.

[Dp101]

I'll catch up properly later on, but a scan of events in my absence leaves Jowy, pizza, and Csargo looking good.

Jowy because if this is his scum game, it's improved radically since I saw it last.

pizza because it feels like he's more focused on actual scumhunting than the appearance thereof.

And Csargo because the only way I think he'd be having this much fun as scum is if pizza was his buddy.

Also, my gut agrees with pizza that Monty could be third party. In contrast to Csargo it doesn't feel like he's really enjoying himself, which would be unusual for him as either town or scum.

Got any suspects, as opposed to town reads?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also, my gut agrees with pizza that Monty could be third party. In contrast to Csargo it doesn't feel like he's really enjoying himself, which would be unusual for him as either town or scum.

It should be noted the votes on Montmorency happening only after I mentioned him as a possible third party, while he's done little to defend himself this round.

A potentially hostile third party especially with killing power would pose a major threat to the scum team, more than one town pizzaguy could ever provide.

I'm not a fan of the Monty votes. If we had zero scum suspects then maybe, although it really behooves town to find scums as a priority. Any mafia team is much more powerful if they only have town to deal with.

[Cuthillius]

lol

So what I saw with Barts vote and dismissal was a null push and asking non-solving questions? I don't see how, I literally said he was my top scummread today and stated why, then asked if I should rethink the read (no one has even addressed it outside of novice). I thought it was based on his lax pressure vote and ignoring of my response (which I thought was a bit scum), then cleared 3 people that I likely think are town. I have no input on the meta-analysis that is rampant currently, and I still gave my strongest reads with rather specific reasons for them.

And I am scum hunting, this is why I'm asking you this question. In my mind it was super specific in the reasons I was voting and not voting for those people (with the exception of CS),for you to say it wasn't either means there's a disconnect either intentionally or unintentionally. If it was a bad read for bad reasons, I can handle the critique, it's kind of why I'm playing here, to actually get better.

i dislike this post

it takes argument, has a certain level of pushback and aggression without being too in the face, EMPHASIZES the effort and work he's done

but then again

i take that with a grain of salt

i've made posts almost exactly like this, which is why it pops out at me, but at the same time that could just be me projecting those thoughts onto the canvas of fredwood

[Cuthillius]

vote:csargo

[Cuthillius]

i also fail to see how anyone's scumreading jowy here

there are some posts that are...awkward, sure

but on the whole he's making valid points, he's not freaking out, he's not slipping out of a towny perspective, or backing off of hard ideas he's pushing

he has a certain aggressive poise itt that'd both be hard to fake as scum and just comes across as really fluidly town

[novice]

vote:csargo

So why Csargo over Monty now?

[Cuthillius]

So why Csargo over Monty now?

reassessing, i think he's scummier

in the light of a new day, i dislike his continued push on dp

i'm not mindmelding with him as much or at all now

i think it makes sense from a perspective/gameplay pov as of right now

monty has that strike against him, but it's really not THAT much and i'd still like to hear more from him before considering lynching him in an ideal world

i also am not super fond of people's reasons for townreading csargo, pizza in particular, and think that independently he doesn't have a ton going for him aorn

[Csargo]

vote:csargo

I like the color. We can go at it if you want Cuth, I'm up for it.

[Cuthillius]

I like the color. We can go at it if you want Cuth, I'm up for it.

not much to go at, tbh

curious why you seem to be implying a desire for thunderdome the instant i vote you after not expressing any such read on me or similar conduct in the past

i still don't like your push on dp

i feel like you're strawmanning a certain couple of his posts that are kinda scummy while ignoring the volumes that aren't

which is not scumhunting, or townhunting, or even properly go about playing mafia

i feel like you've acknowledged that the towny posts exist, while still overrepresenting the weight of the posts that you do find scummy

it's a certain imbalance of perspective that i'm really not too fond of

[novice]

Actually I get the feeling that Pizza is overreaching a bit.

[Cuthillius]

Actually I get the feeling that Pizza is overreaching a bit.

agreed, but we should never lynch there today

lettuce take him off the table

place in the pantry

reexamine tomorrow

after lynching someone other than dp101

[Askthepizzaguy]

vote:csargo

Hang on a second.

Csargo, have you noticed something odd about today?

[Askthepizzaguy]

lol

So what I saw with Barts vote and dismissal was a null push and asking non-solving questions? I don't see how, I literally said he was my top scummread today and stated why, then asked if I should rethink the read (no one has even addressed it outside of novice). I thought it was based on his lax pressure vote and ignoring of my response (which I thought was a bit scum), then cleared 3 people that I likely think are town. I have no input on the meta-analysis that is rampant currently, and I still gave my strongest reads with rather specific reasons for them.

And I am scum hunting, this is why I'm asking you this question. In my mind it was super specific in the reasons I was voting and not voting for those people (with the exception of CS),for you to say it wasn't either means there's a disconnect either intentionally or unintentionally. If it was a bad read for bad reasons, I can handle the critique, it's kind of why I'm playing here, to actually get better.

Fredwood didn't do anything since I slightly scum read him but post this and peace out.

No one followed up on this guy either.

This is a textbook flinch.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Question to Fredwood

lol

So what I saw with Barts vote and dismissal was a null push and asking non-solving questions? I don't see how, I literally said he was my top scummread today and stated why, then asked if I should rethink the read (no one has even addressed it outside of novice). I thought it was based on his lax pressure vote and ignoring of my response (which I thought was a bit scum), then cleared 3 people that I likely think are town. I have no input on the meta-analysis that is rampant currently, and I still gave my strongest reads with rather specific reasons for them.

And I am scum hunting, this is why I'm asking you this question. In my mind it was super specific in the reasons I was voting and not voting for those people (with the exception of CS),for you to say it wasn't either means there's a disconnect either intentionally or unintentionally. If it was a bad read for bad reasons, I can handle the critique, it's kind of why I'm playing here, to actually get better.

Who did you clear by this point in time and post number in the game?

I'm re-reading to see if I missed something, and what I'm seeing are "slight" town leans. I didn't sleep very well so I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that my reading comprehension is really bad. I'm staring at lots and lots of posts right now and it's all starting to blur.

Assistance on this point would be great in terms of being able to tell if you're on the level or exaggerating.

[Fredwood]

Question to Fredwood


Who did you clear by this point in time and post number in the game?

I'm re-reading to see if I missed something, and what I'm seeing are "slight" town leans. I didn't sleep very well so I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that my reading comprehension is really bad. I'm staring at lots and lots of posts right now and it's all starting to blur.

Assistance on this point would be great in terms of being able to tell if you're on the level or exaggerating.

I had the point on DP, but felt the Bart's vote on him cleared DP for that phase and that post was just a bad one.

I also had Csargo as a town lean, and you specifically on your insistence that you were forcing yourself to go to bed but still kept posting. Tonally felt like genuine excitement about the game.

It was a lengthy post where I said them, so formatting the names in bold in big posts is probably advised.

I tend to give more credit to my town reads then my scum reads in general though.

I also posted a bit of a wall after the Jowy flip where I TR a few more.

[Fredwood]

I had the point on DP, but felt the Bart's vote on him cleared DP for that phase and that post was just a bad one.

I also had Csargo as a town lean, and you specifically on your insistence that you were forcing yourself to go to bed but still kept posting. Tonally felt like genuine excitement about the game.

It was a lengthy post where I said them, so formatting the names in bold in big posts is probably advised.

I tend to give more credit to my town reads then my scum reads in general though.

I also posted a bit of a wall after the Jowy flip where I TR a few more.

Also my definition of clearing may be different then yours, my process is more looking for positive then negative, so if I'm mentioning positive leans or even if I say slight leans I'm typically clearing them for that phase.

I did get pinged by Bart and tried something a bit foreign to my playstyle, maybe it contributed to the awkwardness of the interaction, maybe it didn't and Bart is actually scum and I just broken clocked him.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also my definition of clearing may be different then yours, my process is more looking for positive then negative, so if I'm mentioning positive leans or even if I say slight leans I'm typically clearing them for that phase.

I'll consider this explanation. Trying really hard to keep an open mind and not tunnel here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also my definition of clearing may be different then yours, my process is more looking for positive then negative, so if I'm mentioning positive leans or even if I say slight leans I'm typically clearing them for that phase.

I did get pinged by Bart and tried something a bit foreign to my playstyle, maybe it contributed to the awkwardness of the interaction, maybe it didn't and Bart is actually scum and I just broken clocked him.

If he is scum then you look much better.

I will say he is fantastically difficult to read for me. I don't know if I ever lock clear Barto in any game without a cop check. Not because I'm afraid of him, just because his behavior and thinking process is so different from mine. I can't tell what he would or wouldn't do and I've scummed with him before and I can't really process him by putting myself in his shoes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I had the point on DP, but felt the Bart's vote on him cleared DP for that phase and that post was just a bad one.

I also had Csargo as a town lean, and you specifically on your insistence that you were forcing yourself to go to bed but still kept posting. Tonally felt like genuine excitement about the game.

It was a lengthy post where I said them, so formatting the names in bold in big posts is probably advised.

I tend to give more credit to my town reads then my scum reads in general though.

I also posted a bit of a wall after the Jowy flip where I TR a few more.

Don't take this as pressure, I'm not doing pressure today. I got most of the info I needed last round due to tallies and content.

The issue I am having with this characterization is, you said "cleared", and to me, a slight town lean is not clear. Those are worlds apart and this is not a nitpick. It's a big deal, because you're giving yourself credit for clears, which is much harder to do that give someone a slight town lean.

Clears means you'll probably go to bat for them if the lynch vote is between them and a null. People's reads fluctuate, and a slight town lean and a null can switch places very easily and for little reasons. It doesn't paint you into a corner like clearing townies does.

Csargo was slight town lean, so was I.

I'll give you the read on me, in fairness, because of the specifics you gave.

That said, I read your commentary on dp and it calls out his post as scummy and talks about why for a while, and in the end, it really wasn't obvious to me how strong your lean was on dp and it didn't seem very confident at all, and truth be told, I can't tell if your lean there was town. It looked a bit like fence straddling.

Anything that happened after the referenced post is something I can look at, but not in terms of a time-frame analysis. At the time, you said you had already cleared 3 townies. If you clear people later that doesn't justify the earlier assertion.

In my opinion, that claim that you had cleared 3 people is inaccurate. And based on the way you worded it (in your own words, you said slight, and then you said clear, which means I think you have a difference between the two in your own mind, not just how I view it) I think you knew it was inaccurate.

I think you were exaggerating how much solving you had done.

Can you have done that as town? Yes, but I don't know why you would. And I don't find it that common. My impression of you is that you're not particularly someone who tends to exaggerate your accomplishments. You seem put together and more sensible than that.

[Fredwood]

Don't take this as pressure, I'm not doing pressure today. I got most of the info I needed last round due to tallies and content.

The issue I am having with this characterization is, you said "cleared", and to me, a slight town lean is not clear. Those are worlds apart and this is not a nitpick. It's a big deal, because you're giving yourself credit for clears, which is much harder to do that give someone a slight town lean.

Clears means you'll probably go to bat for them if the lynch vote is between them and a null. People's reads fluctuate, and a slight town lean and a null can switch places very easily and for little reasons. It doesn't paint you into a corner like clearing townies does.

Csargo was slight town lean, so was I.

I'll give you the read on me, in fairness, because of the specifics you gave.

That said, I read your commentary on dp and it calls out his post as scummy and talks about why for a while, and in the end, it really wasn't obvious to me how strong your lean was on dp and it didn't seem very confident at all, and truth be told, I can't tell if your lean there was town. It looked a bit like fence straddling.

Anything that happened after the referenced post is something I can look at, but not in terms of a time-frame analysis. At the time, you said you had already cleared 3 townies. If you clear people later that doesn't justify the earlier assertion.

In my opinion, that claim that you had cleared 3 people is inaccurate. And based on the way you worded it (in your own words, you said slight, and then you said clear, which means I think you have a difference between the two in your own mind, not just how I view it) I think you knew it was inaccurate.

I think you were exaggerating how much solving you had done.

Can you have done that as town? Yes, but I don't know why you would. And I don't find it that common. My impression of you is that you're not particularly someone who tends to exaggerate your accomplishments. You seem put together and more sensible than that.

Maybe but at the time you said 0 solving. Semantics aside I was not going to vote for you, CS or DP last phase. I don't see how it's exaggeration, especially with the caveat that I didn't have a lot of reads because Day 1 was a lot of meta analysis that I didn't have enough reference to weigh in on. so from my POV it's rather significant given the both the situation and the nature of most day 1's. So I do think the reverse of what you say about me and exaggeration can be said in regards to you about minimizing a person's contribution.

As for DP, to me as long as Bart is alive, I will not vote for DP. Yes it's not a town read per say, it's a contingent town read I guess.

I wasn't posting my post Jowy flip post as justification I was posting it as reference to what I view as a similar post even after you said I had done 0 solving, why would I ever lynch even my slightest of town leans? I doubt I'll be hardclearing many people this game non-mechanically because this is my first time playing with all of you.

Also, I just like arguing and talking about me. Answering this has less to do with me viewing it as pressure as much as it does with me being full of myself.