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  1. #1
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default American Constitution

    Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds;
    for riches do not endure forever, and a crown is not secure for all generations.

    the worry here is not Kim, but trump
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  2. #2
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds;
    for riches do not endure forever, and a crown is not secure for all generations.

    the worry here is not Kim, but trump
    No, I don't think so.

    Societal collapse is not caused by one man - historians like to blame Commodus for the fall of Rome but he wasn't solely responsible. The first thing you need to recognise about Trump is that he is the symptom, not the disease.

    The solution is not to come down to his level, to "fight all his appointments" in the Senate as some were suggesting when he won.

    The solution is to work with Trump, within the system, and oppose him within the system - to be better than him.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    No, I don't think so.

    Societal collapse is not caused by one man - historians like to blame Commodus for the fall of Rome but he wasn't solely responsible. The first thing you need to recognise about Trump is that he is the symptom, not the disease.

    The solution is not to come down to his level, to "fight all his appointments" in the Senate as some were suggesting when he won.

    The solution is to work with Trump, within the system, and oppose him within the system - to be better than him.
    Or, as a symptom, we take from it that the old system has failed and we are already coming to the beginning of a transition to a new one. If that's the case, then it is not a matter of "working within" but of going through the motions until we meet the inflection point.

    The only question is, what will that look like? Will we start enumerating "republics" like France?
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  4. #4
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Or, as a symptom, we take from it that the old system has failed and we are already coming to the beginning of a transition to a new one. If that's the case, then it is not a matter of "working within" but of going through the motions until we meet the inflection point.

    The only question is, what will that look like? Will we start enumerating "republics" like France?
    France's political system has gone through evolutionary change "enumerating" its Republics.

    If you are suggesting your system is reaching systemic collapse then we are all in deep doodoo.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    France's political system has gone through evolutionary change "enumerating" its Republics.

    If you are suggesting your system is reaching systemic collapse then we are all in deep doodoo.
    I agree that the latest one, 4th to 5th, was "evolutionary", and a transition of similar magnitude or character (adjusted for the USA) is what I think we can anticipate. (Probably will involve more checks on the POTUS, though I hope not too many, and on party reign in the executive).

    Arguably it could be our Third Republic, if you count the Civil War and Reconstruction as another transitionary phase where the nation transformed its cultural and institutions, as well as its Constitution.

    However Trump leaves the presidency, I suppose the end of his administration will mark the proper (in hindsight) beginning to the event, and it will preoccupy most of the 2020s in its extent.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 08-09-2017 at 21:34.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  6. #6
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Constitutional Change is the last thing the US needs. The problem isn't legal, it's cultural.

    About the only legal change you need is the abolition of Term Limits. In the two-Party state like the US Term Limits lead to a "tic-tok" where one party gets in (tic) and then get's reflected (tok) and then the other gets in.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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