Violence in Charlottesville

[Greyblades]

Not even close to being the same thing. Using a tragedy to bring light to an issue and press for police reform is not anywhere comparable to what is going on now with white nationalists marching down streets carrying tiki torches and giving the Nazi salute.

Did I say they were the same thing? Ever?

No, I said that you should have been paying attention when this was being fed. So eager to use death for political capital that he lamented the death of those killed in self defense or in the process of breaking the law, the "post race president" proclaimed thier demises as examples of police brutality and racism later to be proven false. This was one step in a long chain that served to sour race relations and brought upon the chaos you see before you.

If you had also been paying attention you'd also be taking account that the communist black bloc took the streets of america before the nazis reemerged. They marched down Berkeley and Austin's streets carrying the hammer and sickle and raising thier fists and only the politically blind couldnt see them for the neo red guard they are.

It falls under a rule within the FAQ:

"Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, etc, etc."

WND is well known to peddle conspiracy theories as well as other generally objectionable material that has no place on the Org and as admin I will enforce this. The same would be true for any similar website linked here, no matter the political alignment. If you have further issue with this, please take it up via PM and I would be happy to explain further. That being said, I do not appreciate your snarky tone.

If this is how you interpret "objectionable material" you had best get used to snark for you will be eliciting a lot of it.

It is absurd to ban an entire site for political conspiracy theories, I may as well petition for the banning of anyone linking to the rolling stone after they pushed the university of virgina false rape accusation. You could disqualify half the american mainstream media for peddling the "russia hacked the election" theory.

You accuse "the left" of having wrongfully excused black racism for too long because someone posted a picture of two black panthers supposedly intimidating voters somewhere and excuse white racism yourself by saying it's "only" a reaction of the victims of said black racism?

Quite the strawman, I have said it's re-emergeance and popularity is a reaction of the rise of black racism not an excuse.

You know your own history do you not? How the nazis used legitimate fears of communism to gain support? How they capitalized upon the failures of the government to combat it?

Well you better start learning because it's the Weimar republic again only now your fear of the nazis is empowering the communists and you've forgotten that both are evil not just one.

As for your "it was just a picture" claim, read the freaking wikipedia page.

Not only is the white racism far worse, you admit yourself that it is not even a recent problem, so it might as well be the primary reason black racism exists. If white racism is the reason for black racism, then black racism cannot be a legitimate excuse for white racism. In the end you're just whining and victimizing "your group".

White racism isnt far worse, they are both the same evil that wants the other gone or dead with the same ferocity and they are codependant; each grows in reaction to the other. You are worrying about the one in the doorway while ignoring the one in your bed.

I think there's a strong tendency from many (most?) to excuse bad behavior when it's their team and harp on it when it's the opposing team. Greyblades isn't the first one to do this and won't be the last.

I think we're all better off though, when we can acknowledge bad behavior regardless of which "team" is doing it. Pointing out sketchy behavior of the other team isn't a good refutation of the same from one's own. I could maybe see it (as part of a hypocrisy argument), if Orgahs had been dismissive of the past charges while railing against the current- but I doubt there's much evidence of that. It's safer not to attribute all characteristics of the opposing "team" to the individual you are currently debating.

That's just my 2 cents anyway.

My two cents is that it's your allegiance to your team that's making you think I'm excusing them when I am pointing out it was the other team's actions that made them. They are to the right what antifa are to the left and both have been eager to beat the other's brains out.

Whether it was with bikelocks on the picket line or with a rifle in a baseball field it is only by chance that it was the nazis that produced the first fatality.

[Greyblades]

On a more, hm, lighter note: I have to admit confusion at the motivation of the people calling for the removal of lees statue. Robert E Lee like Rommel after him was a hero for his own people an highly respected by his enemies to the point of lionization of him after death.

With the oft touted distaste of slavery only being outweighed by his love of country it is highly odd for him to have been attacked as a symbol of the worst of the confederates. I thought Lee was supposed to be the reb you were "allowed" to like in democratic circles.

I cant imagine anyone would have thought removing him wouldnt get pushback, and the ideological justification doesnt make sense, so why was this ever proposed?

[Montmorency]

I thought Lee was supposed to be the reb you were "allowed" to like in democratic circles.

He wasn't. His benign legacy is a myth and he is up there with the most egregious traitors and supremacists. The pushback is most charitably identified with imbeciles and casual racists who just don't know any better and don't want to.

After seeing this type of disingenuous pushed relentlessly by people who of course wouldn't dream of calling for a memorial to Osama bin Laden at Ground Zero as an expression of heritage or history, I'm through with the belief that some may be spared. Raze everything on public land to the earth. The pigs can lick up their blood and soil from the gravel of their impressions.

The only Confederate symbol that matters is the white flag of surrender.

[a completely inoffensive name]

He wasn't. His benign legacy is a myth and he is up there with the most egregious traitors and supremacists. The pushback is most charitably identified with imbeciles and casual racists who just don't know any better and don't want to.

After seeing this type of disingenuous pushed relentlessly by people who of course wouldn't dream of calling for a memorial to Osama bin Laden at Ground Zero as an expression of heritage or history, I'm through with the belief that some may be spared. Raze everything on public land to the earth. The pigs can lick up their blood and soil from the gravel of their impressions.

The only Confederate symbol that matters is the white flag of surrender.

You remember way back when i said we need to bring back radical reconstruction and i joked by saying you agreed wholeheartedly?

I'm glad we are finally on the same page.

[Montmorency]

You remember way back when i said we need to bring back radical reconstruction and i joked by saying you agreed wholeheartedly?

I'm glad we are finally on the same page.

Was that a specific exchange, or is there something else you're hinting at that I should be familiar with?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Was that a specific exchange, or is there something else you're hinting at that I should be familiar with?

No, this was a specific exchange back in the thread about the dylann kid who shot up the black church. The one with the rhodesia patch on his shirt at the time of the shooting.

[Montmorency]

No, this was a specific exchange back in the thread about the dylann kid who shot up the black church. The one with the rhodesia patch on his shirt at the time of the shooting.

This one?

Looking back, I took a harder line than you did.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

He wasn't. His benign legacy is a myth and he is up there with the most egregious traitors and supremacists. The pushback is most charitably identified with imbeciles and casual racists who just don't know any better and don't want to.

After seeing this type of disingenuous pushed relentlessly by people who of course wouldn't dream of calling for a memorial to Osama bin Laden at Ground Zero as an expression of heritage or history, I'm through with the belief that some may be spared. Raze everything on public land to the earth. The pigs can lick up their blood and soil from the gravel of their impressions.

The only Confederate symbol that matters is the white flag of surrender.

He was not the idol he became by any means. He seemed to be mildly anti-slavery, but more for how it coarsened white society. There is little evidence to suggest he was in any way an abolitionist. It is a clear fact that he left the US Army to fight for Virginia, knowing full well that the "peculiar institution" was one of the reasons for secession and that it underlay most of the OTHER reasons claimed for secession. He took up arms against the nation of his birth and lost.

He can be credited with keeping it a more or less conventional war and with rarely allowing his troops to indulge in rapine and murder. I shudder to think what our history would have been like with a South filled with Mosby and Quantrill units for decades. Ghastly thought that.

Lee was a man and a product of his times. He was neither unusually cruel or evil, nor was he saintly.

[Fragony]

You would almost forget it exists

[Montmorency]

Lee was a man and a product of his times. He was neither unusually cruel or evil, nor was he saintly.

The proper context of people like Lee is in the shadow of our famous statesmen and generals like Lincoln and Grant, or (for those desperately reaching) "founding fathers" like Washington and Jefferson. Thus:

[American hero], despite his flaws, was a leading light in our history and institutions who under conditions of great adversity did right and good when it counted. Robert Lee, despite his virtues, was a committed slaver who threw his chips in with the treasonous project of vitalizing white-landlord supremacy when it counted.

[Husar]

Quite the strawman, I have said it's re-emergeance and popularity is a reaction of the rise of black racism not an excuse.

So it was just victim-blaming?

You know your own history do you not? How the nazis used legitimate fears of communism to gain support? How they capitalized upon the failures of the government to combat it?

Well you better start learning because it's the Weimar republic again only now your fear of the nazis is empowering the communists and you've forgotten that both are evil not just one.

As for your "it was just a picture" claim, read the freaking wikipedia page.

It's not the Weimar Republic again, certainly not here. And in the US I don't see it either unless you finally came around and mean that Trump is like Hitler. The empowering of communists is a load of unfounded bollocks, you can hardly find any in the US and the communist party here is nowhere to be seen either.

White racism isnt far worse, they are both the same evil that wants the other gone or dead with the same ferocity and they are codependant; each grows in reaction to the other. You are worrying about the one in the doorway while ignoring the one in your bed.

That's wrong from top to bottom. The numbers of white racists and their being part of a majority group that denied the humanity (voting rights) of the other well into the 1960s alone makes them far worse. There may be some blacks who are racist, but they are nowhere near the level of danger that white racists have achieved. I'm also not in bed with one, I've made angry posts about antifa before. The point is that there is no reason to denounce the antifa or black racism when Neo Nazis and white supremacists show up to a rally looking like racist Total War reenactors, wearing Hitler quotes, toting guns and actually killing and injuring people with cars. Get a grip!

[Hooahguy]

Did I say they were the same thing? Ever?

You pointed to it as a classic case of whataboutism which leads me to believe you think they are comparable.

No, I said that you should have been paying attention when this was being fed. So eager to use death for political capital that he lamented the death of those killed in self defense or in the process of breaking the law, the "post race president" proclaimed thier demises as examples of police brutality and racism later to be proven false. This was one step in a long chain that served to sour race relations and brought upon the chaos you see before you.

So I suppose according to you, using the case of Emmett Till to bring light to rampant and vile racism in the south was wrong as well.

If you had also been paying attention you'd also be taking account that the communist black bloc took the streets of america before the nazis reemerged. They marched down Berkeley and Austin's streets carrying the hammer and sickle and raising thier fists and only the politically blind couldnt see them for the neo red guard they are.

Were they marching and shouting for the extermination/expulsion of other races/religions? Calling for the burning of synagogues? Brandishing a large arsenal of weaponry? Besides, from the images and videos of the marches you mention, their numbers are a tiny fraction compared to the neo-Nazis who showed up last weekend.

If this is how you interpret "objectionable material" you had best get used to snark for you will be eliciting a lot of it.

It is absurd to ban an entire site for political conspiracy theories, I may as well petition for the banning of anyone linking to the rolling stone after they pushed the university of virgina false rape accusation. You could disqualify half the american mainstream media for peddling the "russia hacked the election" theory.

A false rape accusation is hardly on the same level as pushing the birther conspiracy theory. If you do not like how moderation is done on this forum, there is nothing forcing you to stay here.

[Xiahou]

Some surprisingly balanced reporting from NBC:


So yes, there were people on both sides that came looking for a fight. However, most counter-protesters were locals who were appalled to have white supremacists and neo-nazis marching thru their town.

[Husar]

Some surprisingly balanced reporting from NBC:

So yes, there were people on both sides that came looking for a fight. However, most counter-protesters were locals who were appalled to have white supremacists and neo-nazis marching thru their town.

I'm not saying you said so (and this isn't a criticism of your post, just related of sorts!), but what really gets me is not that people criticize the antifa and black block or whatever they call Stalinist and other leftist extremists, is that they do it in an attempt to equate both sides and shof the discussion away from the white supremacist rally.

In almost every left counter-demonstration in Germany you can find the antifa and it's not surprising that they exist in the US, too. The difference is they usually make up a relatively small percentage of the counter-demonstration whereas the tiki torch racist thugs are usually the (vast) majority of the racist demonstration.

It's actually the typical right-wing reaction to try and de-legitimize and entire group of people based on the actions of a very small percentage of the group in order to deflect from the fact that their pet group is entirely rotten to the core...

Or to say it in the words of Jesus, whom the right often claim to represent (even the racists):
http://biblehub.com/matthew/7-5.htm

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.