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Thread: Bloody Khazar

  1. #1
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    The year is 1233, and out of the east a low rumble approaches the Turkish province of Khazar. The volume increases as the ground begins to shake, the leaves of the trees tremble and the sound resonates off the hills. An ominous dust cloud can be seen, moving up the valley like a dark boiling fog. From out of the dust cloud the Sultans lookout espies the cause, the dreaded Death on Horseback, the Mongols have arrived 14,000 strong, to claim Khazar for their own. The lookout lights the signal fire and races on horseback to warn the garrison at Mohi Castle. From the hills signal fires blaze down the valley to the shores of the Black Sea, the Mongols are coming. Riders gallop off to Kiev, and Georgia with the alarm, but it is too late to save the garrison at Mohi Castle. The Mongols swarm the brave defenders and take the only defense of Khazar province before the sun reaches it's midpoint in the sky.

    Word reaches Sultan Suleyman two days later at his palace in Constantinople. The old lion is outraged, but realizes he is now too old, 62, to lead his army to reclaim his province. The Sultan also knows that none of his worthless sons are up to the task, the greatest threat to his kingdom. He calls upon his only hope, his Chief Eunuch, General Murad Gazi who is stationed in Kiev to lead the Sultan's army.

    General Murad Gazi gathers his forces, 4300 including all the mercenaries he could find in the taverns and brothels of Kiev to confront the Horde. The two armies meet south of Mohi Castle in the foothills that lead to the Black Sea.

    Despite being the defender, the Mongols go on the attack in disdain of such a pitifully small force. What fool would dare defy the Golden Horde at almost 3-1 odds?

    General Gazi positions his troops on a small knoll above a tiny gathering of shepherd's huts as the Mongols confidently advance up the gentle incline, grinning like wolves before a slaughter. The Mongol horse archers start raining arrows on the Saracen Infantry as the Mongol Heavy Cavalry feint and manuever to the left flank of the defenders near a copse of woods. From out of the woods the Sultan's Futuwwa archers rain arrows on the surprised Mongol Heavy Cavalry. The Mongols charge the wood and are met by Ghazi Infantry, who take a terrible toll on the Mongol Cav in the trees. The Mongols are bloodied and retreat in confusion, but on comes wave after wave of Mongol horsemen.

    After being beaten back six times the Mongols hang back across the valley, daring the Turks to come to them. General Gazi obliges them and after calling up fresh units manuevers to the right flank of the Mongols. The agile Mongol horsemen slip to the left of the plodding Saracen Infantry and gain the high ground just vacated by General Gazi. Now the Turks must advance up the hill in the face of Mongol arrows with the prospect of a charge of heavy cavalry when they near the top. Onward the Saracen Infantry advances toward the top of the hill, and the waiting Mongol Heavy Cavalry. As the heavy cav and Saracen Infantry crash together, from out of the trees on the Mongol left flank, comes several units of Gazi Infantry and Ghulam Cavalry that were left hiding in ambush. The Mongol left flank crumbles and the entire Mongol force on the hilltop routs in a panic. The Sultan's Ghulam Cav units chase the Mongols across the valley, but stray too far, and are themselves routed by another wave of Mongols entering the valley.

    General Gazi then makes a mistake that almost results in the destruction of the entire Turkish army. He orders his tired infantry to the valley floor in a desperate bid to save his Ghulam Cavalry. He realizes his mistake just as the Mongols crest the knoll that leads into the valley. The Mongol reinforcements are just too quick and they swarm the exhausted Turkish infantry, pinning them on the flat ground of the valley, perfect cavalry killing ground for the best cavalry in the world.

    The Turks are in a desperate situation, exhausted troops, slow reinforcements, facing a fresh foe that moves like the wind. The General orders a controlled retreat back up the hill, leaving behind a delaying force of one unit of crossbowmen lead by Baraka Sokollu, a unit of MuwahidFoot lead by Inal al Aziz, a unit of Saracen Infantry lead by Kilij Burji, and a detachment of mercenary Billmen lead by Louis de Valois. The Mongols swarmed these four valiant units like angry hornets, but these brave men held on and allowed the rest of the ragtag army to reach the safety of the trees and call upon fresh reinforcements. Not a single warrior of that rearguard survived the Mongol onslaught. May Allah bless them for their bravery and sacrifice.

    The Mongols now advanced on the wooded hilltop to finish off the remnant of the Turkish army. Six more waves of Mongols attacked the beleaguered Saracens, and six times they were thrown back after desperate fighting in the forest. General Gazi then called for the last three units of his Ghulam Cavalry along with the remainder of his Armenian Heavy Cavalry. As the Mongols advanced, General Gazi sensed the moment was nigh and ordered the charge. The Turks bounded down the hill on weary legs screaming "Allah Ahkbar" and crashed into the Mongol line. After several minutes of frenzied combat the Mongols broke for the final time. The Ghulam and Armenian Cavalry chased the Mongols right out of Khazar. The chroniclers say that you can walk across the province of Khazar on the bones of the dead and your feet will never touch the ground. So it is written.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    This is an account of my longest battle ever in a SP campaign. It took a little over three hours to complete. The Mongols didn't split their attack in Armenia and Khazar like they usually do. They only concentrated on Khazar this time.
    Total enemy killed - 5780
    Total enemy routed - 3931
    Total enemy captured - 3457

    Standout units:
    The rearguard;
    MuwahidFoot - 104 kills
    52 losses
    Billmen - 224 kills
    60 losses
    Crossbows - 91 kills
    54 losses
    Saracen Inf.- 204 kills
    100 losses

    My forest fighters;
    Futuwwa archers - 273 kills
    45 losses
    Ghazi Infantry - 230 kills
    44 losses
    Halbadiers - 126 kills
    9 losses
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  2. #2
    Member Member Naagi's Avatar
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    Very nice indeed, I on the other hand was disappointed in my only Golden Horde contact. They brought a measly 1700 troops and I squashed them like a bug.

    Naagi
    If i pull the arrow out, will you suck out the poison?

  3. #3
    Member Member Exile's Avatar
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    Well done A very good story. It reminds me of a very similar battle I had with the horde while playing the byz. Only you lost less men than I did I think. The thousands of horse archers are a real pain in the arse

    I am grateful the Mongols are arrogant enough to attack (and fire arrows at)infantry in the woods, it has saved my hide several times. Once I just barely won a huge battle against the horde and had only 8 exhausted CMAA left standing in the forest by the time it was over.
    - All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

  4. #4
    Member Member sassbarman's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    That was the best written battle account i've read yet Hell of a job.




  5. #5
    Bored Avid Gamer Member Alrowan's Avatar
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    sounded like fun... my mongol battle lasted about 5 hours
    Llew Cadeyrn/Alrowan - Chieftain of Clan Raven

  6. #6

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    Great story HT, enjoy reading it

  7. #7

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    Great story Sounds like a wonderful battle
    Ja-mata TosaInu

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    Member Member Ueriah's Avatar
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    Very well writen.

    I especially like the way you broke down the movement of the troops. Reading it gives a very good description, you can almost "see" the battle. Well narrorated

  9. #9
    King of the Potato People. Senior Member Sir Chauncy's Avatar
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    It really did kick ass. I liked the Rearguard bit with the valiant troops hammered ( finally ) into the floor after about 600 kills between them. brilliant.

    But what about the Henchmens famillies? No one ever thinks about them.
    Veni, Vermui, Vomui.

    I came, I got ratted, I threw up.

    Morale outrage is the recourse of those who have no argument.

  10. #10
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    This was one of my favorite SP battles, though 3 hours is a bit long. I was too tired to continue the campaign that evening. Good thing the Mongols don't have decent infantry, they'd be almost impossible to beat. Their reinforcements are so quick you have to be careful not to chase routers too far or you get over-extended and ambushed. I really like how their heavy cav feints and probes your defense, moving to any weakened flank like a human player would. Wish I knew how to use screen shots for illustrations like Martz used to do on the STW forum.

    Sir Chauncy: Surely you realize that the chronicles are written by the victor. You wanna read about the Mongols side of the story, go ask them. Personally, I'd be afraid to, might be a sore subject to bring up.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member Jacque Schtrapp's Avatar
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    A moment of silence while we all raise our beermugs in a toast to the valiant rearguard. Salut

  12. #12
    King of the Potato People. Senior Member Sir Chauncy's Avatar
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    Indeed a Toast

    Salut, to the brave and the Dead.

    I'll bet the Mongols are feeling abit silly now though, they always attack around the same time, don't you think that they should maybe vary it a little bit? Or even start to use tanks and machine guns instead of just horses?

    (Sarcasm button moment again - this is just killing me in revenues)
    Veni, Vermui, Vomui.

    I came, I got ratted, I threw up.

    Morale outrage is the recourse of those who have no argument.

  13. #13
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    O.o best battle in some time...great story toocheers m8
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  14. #14
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Hosakawa, that was a beautifully written account. It highlights what makes this game so amazing - how human-like the AI can be. One moment you are cursing a group of cowards and the next you are moved as you watch a unit rise above itself and give its all. You never know the measure of a man until he is tested in a crisis, be he blood or pixel. The Rearguard looms tall in the annals of MTW history. How many would have guessed so before that epic battle?

    Hosakawa, if you had enough wits about you after that long battle to save the replay, I'd very much like to see it.
    This space intentionally left blank

  15. #15

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    Very good story.
    The only thing I can't understand is how could you manage to have such small losses. I beat mongols every time they attack my provinces (I play as Turkey) but my kill ratio is 2-5 dead enemies to 1 of mine. The main problem is their archers. Usually I stand uphill (best - in woods) and wait for mongols. Their heavy cavalry is simple to defeat but then horse archers come. I can't chase them because they are faster than any of my troops and avoid facing my soldiers in hand-to-hand fight. So I have to wait until mongols are out of ammo. But they kill my soldiers and my kill ratio decreases.
    Hokasawa: What did your army consist of?

  16. #16
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Greg, unfortunately my wits did fail me, I was so whipped after that marathon battle that I didn't save a replay I too was very surprised at how long the rearguard units heldout, especially the low morale Saracen Inf. All their kills didn't occur during the rearguard action, some were from previous fighting before the last stand.

    Sainika, the losses and kills I listed were just from a few of my units, the ones that stood out in my mind. I lost many more than that. Here is a breakdown:
    My total losses:
    Killed - 1175
    Routed - 403
    Captured - 92
    Total - 2630 out of 4300
    A %39 casualty rate -- %27 killed

    Mongol losses:
    Killed - 5780
    Routed - 3931
    Captured -3457
    Total - 13,168
    A %94 casualty rate -- %41 killed

    My army composition:

    Ghulam Knights - 100 including the general's unit
    Ghulam Cav - 240 wished I had more
    Armenia Cav - 320 late battle muscle
    Turcoman Horse - 400 gave mongol horsearchers fits
    Steppe Cav- 280 rout killers
    Saracen Inf. - 1000 rock solid despite low morale
    MuwahidFoot - 300 good cav killers when flanking
    Ghazi Inf. - 600 fearless forest fighters
    Billmen - 60 rearguard heroes (mercs)
    Halbadiers - 60 held left flank in forest (mercs)
    Catapult - 10 opening salvos helped
    Crossbows - 360 took a toll on horsearchers
    Naptha throwers - 36 effective on flanks against heavy cav
    TurcomanFoot - 240 deadly against horsearchers
    Futuwwa archers -300 versatile unit that did surprisingly
    well hth in the forest fighting.

    My general was a 7 star, went up to 9 after the battle. My Sultan was an 8 star, and all 5 princes were 0 stars (I've read this is a bug). Most of my cav was not available as reenforcements till late in the battle. The rearguard didn't get all their kills in the last stand, they were also involved in the fighting on the valley floor that lead up to it, as tired as they were it was a surprise they held on so long. I was particularly impressed with the Futuwwa unit I used in the hth fighting in the forest. I used the Halbadiers to hold the attacking cav, mostly heavy and steppe cav, and the Futuwwa's were used to flank or rear attack them. The Mongol Khan was routed early in the battle, but the succeeding waves of mongol warriors fought like demons with no apparent loss of morale till near the end. Bring more cav against the mongols, I think I was fortunate most of mine came near the end so I could chase down those damn horsearchers. Fight them in the forest if possible, their lack of an effective infantry unit is their Achilles heel.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  17. #17

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    how did you get all that information ?
    or are you just remembering it ?

    do you have some sort of program that gives you those details ?


    i write because in my battles it is kinda disapointing that i get to see only the kill/loss/captured info for the troops that are on the battle map at the end the battle.
    the troops that i have withdrawn due to out of ammo or too many casulties i get no information on.

    thanks for a fantastic story and follow info



    Lord Romulous

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  18. #18
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Lord Romulous do you enable logfiles of your battles? That is where you can get this info, from all your units, even the ones that are withdrawn and replaced during battle. I access them from my desktop.Left click MY Computer icon on the desktop, Left click C drive (harddrive).
    Click on program files, Click on TotalWar folder MTW, Click on logfile folder. All your stats from every battle whether it is SP, MP, Historical battle etc... will be listed by date played.

    If you have the patch you should have logfiles enabled, I think. Check the game options menu to see if you have to enable it. You'll be pleased that you did.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  19. #19

    Thumbs up

    Many thanks Hosakawa Tito

    i always wondered what log files were for , thought it was something to do with detecting cheats in multiplayer.

    *rush's off to check his logs *
    Lord Romulous

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    +3 pervisity +4 cursing +7 to chance of wearing purple pants.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Hosakawa Tito @ Jan. 13 2003,17:30)]I was particularly impressed with the Futuwwa unit I used in the hth fighting in the forest.
    I noticed that almost every foot unit does miracles in the forest against cavalry. Once (I played as Danes) one unit of gallowglasses won a battle for me. They were hiding in the forest and killed a lot of Egyptian cavalry in the forest including general.
    Also I was very surprised by saracen infantry, i.e. how they can handle with mongol heavy cavalry in frontal fight. It's very importatn to attack cavalry with saracen first. In that case they are really good. Let alone the fact that they fight in the forest even if outflanked.
    As for futuwwas, they were the backbone of my turkish armies along with saracen inf. until janissaries appeared.

  21. #21
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bloody Khazar

    From the misty past of the Ancient Org...

    Pardon the thread necromancy, but after years of failing, I've finally managed to locate Hosakawa Tito's epic account of his massive battle against the Golden Horde. I think I would have paid to watch all three hours of this battle.
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  22. #22
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bloody Khazar

    14 years. What.

    Wow, that is some Gregoshi-level thread level right there.

    And the account of the battle of course!
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

    Proud

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  23. #23
    VictorGB Member Trapped in Samsara's Avatar
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    Hi

    Great account. Amazing battle. I wish I had been there - so to speak.

    What really impresses me is that Hosakawa Tito attacked the Mongols. That takes some balls.

    And then there's the sneaky ambush from the forest...

    Respect.

    Best regards
    VictorGB

    Sapere aude
    Horace

  24. #24

    Default Re: Bloody Khazar

    same thing happened to me, expert difficulty only I lead egyptians... Mongols fled north and then my 9 star general crushed them.... that second battle at Volga I just didnt have strenght to lead... 3 hours of fighting with damn mongols and arguing with my own troops. Constantly stupid Saracens and Muwahids were chasin much faster and fresher Mongol warriors and i had to halt them 10 thousand times. He was provoking me, but discipline was on my armies side... At one point I thought that after God knows how much time, that this is it and i started pursuing them and got off my safe hill ... I dont know hod the hell did they get past that corpse pile :) only to find myself surrounded by thousand mongol warriors... I used same tactics as you.. sacrifice 3 of my spear units and allow my main force to get back up on my hill... every soldier in these 3 units died. But that wave came and My troops were strong enough to endure it, but my sissy 7 star general fled the field just when we were about to win... THats when I have lay my hopes on saracen infantry general ... abyssinian guard and armenian heavy cavalry remained on the field and crushed Mongol Horde... There was song that night and drink and women and horse meat on the stake :) But without my sissy general. He returned later and everyone laughed at him. He got back to Syria and never left it again. :) He was too ashame of himself and no one wanted to follow him although he was a 7 star general :) Great battle it was I tell you

  25. #25
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bloody Khazar

    Separate topic but related - Khazar's Heavy Cavalry are amazing troops. Bribe them!

    (or edit the game to allow recruitment)
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

    Proud

    Been to:

    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.

    A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?

  26. #26

    Default Re: Bloody Khazar

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    Khazar's Heavy Cavalry are amazing troops. Bribe them!

    (or edit the game to allow recruitment)
    Under certain circumstances -- with a horse master's guild(?) and limited to the early period -- you *can* recruit them. I remember doing this as the Byzantines. It was certainly nice to have a dozen or so Khazar heavy cav to face off with the Mongols!

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