Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Dp101]

You literally were defending me and calling me your top town until I voted you.

Well yes, because your vote made absolutely no sense from my perspective.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think that lynch proves Winston Hughes is lock town, from where I sit.

Please consider that as likely. I think the passive aggression was directed at a townie.

[Montmorency]

You seemed frozen and to not really have any strong feelings about who was lynched

villagers care about eod. effen theorem goat.

Strong feelings? I acknowledged for half a day that Pizza's case on Logic was solid. I never expected the Chox wagon to blow up.

I did care about EOD.

[Zack]

I am extremely good with Logic's meta.

I'll be the first to admit my other suspects are not based in an enormously confident assessment of their meta. Those are just guesses.

Logic was also a guess, but he was wildly different for the reasons I noted, and it was apparent from the few posts after I initially suggested he was iffy. I upped the suspicion level dramatically because of how he passive aggressively went after Winston.

In my mind, that was the big blunder I could trap him on. I just had to convince people.

But if I somehow die tonight, my leans are not gospel. Play the game. Don't forget me but don't just disconnect your brains either.

My suspects if town need to be allowed to look for scums and not just get buried under "pizza said ur scum"

It's both more fun and better towning that way.

You said you thought there was a wolf bussing.

Who is it in your opinion? Chox?

[Dp101]

It feels more like you realized Logic's flip would make me look bad, rather than having a genuine progression from townread --> wolfread.

I can see why you would think that, but really it was a combination of how weird FMPOV your sudden switch on me looked and the part of me that always wants to believe whatever Pizza says, that I couldn't quite suppress.

[Askthepizzaguy]

pizza, that was like hunting with Renata.

Never had that level of mindmeld with anyone else before.

It was a great moment. It was my pleasure to work with you.

Sorry if I seemed a bit arrogant today you guys. I was half roleplaying and half super duper sure about a day one wolf read, I'd have been seriously seriously doubting myself if he flipped town here.

I couldn't afford to see him flip town. That wouldn't have been good for me.

[Zack]

Well yes, because your vote made absolutely no sense from my perspective.

What should I have done? Sit on my butt?

I don't care if you don't like how I play, you're not the first nor the last. But I don't buy that you think it makes me a wolf.

[Zack]

Strong feelings? I acknowledged for half a day that Pizza's case on Logic was solid. I never expected the Chox wagon to blow up.

I did care about EOD.

You certainly did not express strong feelings on Logic.

[Montmorency]

Sure knock yourself out :)

My original point was that: I prefer natural wagon formations, ppl vote how they feel is right. If a player comes around though and says stuff like 'lets force a draw, then a mafia might out himself by trying to clutch save his buddy' (or smth like that) it disrupts the way ppl would usually vote and makes it artificial and thus useless. Ppl that then vote for player X just for the draw can't be really held responsible for that anymore, they don't have to put their vote where they mouth has been. Also there no way a mafia would be stupid enough to draw attention to himself in this situation so that doesnt gain us any infos as well...

Imo wagons need always be left alone and be played out.... with the exception of CFD's but even a CFD is still asking ppl to make a decision themselves...

I hope it's clear what I mean :)

I see what you mean. I thought you were more objecting to my giving analysis based on potential flip.

I would have liked to see how things developed from a tie, but asking for a "forced" one isn't great.

[Zack]

I can see why you would think that, but really it was a combination of how weird FMPOV your sudden switch on me looked and the part of me that always wants to believe whatever Pizza says, that I couldn't quite suppress.

sounds like a you problem, not a me problem

[reinoe]

A 1x Strongman? The scumteam would bus the crap out of that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You said you thought there was a wolf bussing.

Who is it in your opinion? Chox?

I do think so. I believe in my posts I covered it, but I will go back, re-assess, and go into more detail.

The others on that wagon looked good. Csargo iffy as stated, but I wouldn't start with him. Give him a little space.

Choxorn I think is absolutely the next person to be pressed and thought about. No auto lynch, but seriously look at all his posts for motive.

A lot of other good people who hunt well that I trust were on this one. If you're town, you were also all over it, iirc, so please look.

Also look to see if he's somehow a townie. It's bad if we get overconfident and forget to look for reasons why that could be the case as well.

[Kagemusha]

While GH and i go as way back when it comes to mafia so long as Org and mafia. I think my old friend needs now real scrutiny. I sensed real reluctancy when it came to lynching Logic and with 4 scum in 17 players they really could have tried to manipulate this first vote.

[Montmorency]

You certainly did not express strong feelings on Logic.

That's my point. So why would I suddenly develop strong feelings if nothing had changed?

[Dp101]

What should I have done? Sit on my butt?

I don't care if you don't like how I play, you're not the first nor the last. But I don't buy that you think it makes me a wolf.

Trying to switch wagons away from someone who has done basically nothing towny up to that point (not that there was that much scumminess IMO, just a lack of anything good) to someone who at worst, hadn't cleared himself that much doesn't strike you as a highly suspicious action? Like, it really came across as a desperate attempt to save a buddy in a way that wouldn't make you look as bad if he still flipped (because people would ask why scum would try and CFD onto a completely random lynch rather than a closer wagon). Even so, you calling for a CFD wasn't enough for me to start scumreading you, what set me off is how you decided that me disliking the idea of a CFD at all, after having held that opinion in every single mafia game I have ever played, was somehow scummy.

[Zack]

That's my point. So why would I suddenly develop strong feelings if nothing had changed?

That's not what I said.

You never had any strong feelings, on anything. You stirred the pot and watched the chaos.

[Askthepizzaguy]

A 1x Strongman? The scumteam would bus the crap out of that.

Yeah, especially if they were pretty forced to by a big push.

It's quite useful, but not useful enough. Worth arguing in defense of, but I wouldn't bet the whole wolf team on stopping such a lynch.

[Dp101]

Pizza, how does the abortive CFD attempt fit into your current worldview? Do you think that it makes GH or Zack more scummy, or that it's NAI, or something else?

[Montmorency]

That's not what I said.

You never had any strong feelings, on anything. You stirred the pot and watched the chaos.

I called it as I saw it. You were the one dipping your stirring rod or whatever.

[Zack]

Trying to switch wagons away from someone who has done basically nothing towny up to that point (not that there was that much scumminess IMO, just a lack of anything good) to someone who at worst, hadn't cleared himself that much doesn't strike you as a highly suspicious action? Like, it really came across as a desperate attempt to save a buddy in a way that wouldn't make you look as bad if he still flipped (because people would ask why scum would try and CFD onto a completely random lynch rather than a closer wagon). Even so, you calling for a CFD wasn't enough for me to start scumreading you, what set me off is how you decided that me disliking the idea of a CFD at all, after having held that opinion in every single mafia game I have ever played, was somehow scummy.

You can't see why, immediately after a CFD absolutely devastated your wolf team in a recent game, you getting seemingly antsy and belligerent at the mere thought of a cfd might seem odd to me?

It's not how I treat wolf partners, anyway. Look at any wolf game of mine, if someone is struggling like Logic and never going to recover I cut them loose.

Your sudden paranoia seems contrived.

[Zack]

afk for awhile

[Askthepizzaguy]

While GH and i go as way back when it comes to mafia so long as Org and mafia. I think my old friend needs now real scrutiny. I sensed real reluctancy when it came to lynching Logic and with 4 scum in 17 players they really could have tried to manipulate this first vote.

I think a deep vet wolf might have argued for a reprieve and I will look at GH more seriously.

I still need to find which person I'm accusing is townie, particularly if I have more than one. Accuracy is super important to continue the opening success.

Give you my opinion. I feel like in Zack or GH I let a scumbag infiltrate my town, but I haven't completely flushed the idea that either could be town. Maybe both somehow.

It has to be done correctly. Both are really good players I don't want to die without giving them a chance to really get their hooks into this game, if town.

Why are they town is an important question to consider, not just how can I suspect them. I have reason to suspect many people but not all can be scum.

Who is a townie you'd save from death and why are they a townie/

[Montmorency]

Trying to switch wagons away from someone who has done basically nothing towny up to that point (not that there was that much scumminess IMO, just a lack of anything good) to someone who at worst, hadn't cleared himself that much doesn't strike you as a highly suspicious action? Like, it really came across as a desperate attempt to save a buddy in a way that wouldn't make you look as bad if he still flipped (because people would ask why scum would try and CFD onto a completely random lynch rather than a closer wagon). Even so, you calling for a CFD wasn't enough for me to start scumreading you, what set me off is how you decided that me disliking the idea of a CFD at all, after having held that opinion in every single mafia game I have ever played, was somehow scummy.

I'm still not sure how to interpret the CFD thing. At first I thought Zack was trolling me.

As far as saving Logic, I doubt any of this was with the expectation that you would genuinely be lynched. At least, I don't think Zack-scum would go so wild.

You had a slip - or a logical gap - but the whole exchange was so dramatic at the last minute as to seem pre-planned...

[Montmorency]

But then what's the point?

And you and Winston were rock-solid Logic voters from early on.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, how does the abortive CFD attempt fit into your current worldview? Do you think that it makes GH or Zack more scummy, or that it's NAI, or something else?

I don't think you'd ever argue for a CFD.

I think you and I were both town, or I was scum and you were town, and I tried to get you to CFD someone, or GH did, or... I mean I've seen you refuse to cfd before. It would be weird here if you advocated for it or went along with it.

Even if you were scum I think that sticks out your neck too much for a partner who has third degree pizza oven burns. And I don't really think you're scum.

I had an iffy post from you that I decided was just an odd vibe that I could explain.

I haven't seriously thought about you as a wolf this game. I don't see a big reason to start now, but if you were somehow scum I'd not be able to see it at this point I don't think, so I'd have to leave space for someone to make such an argument.

I'm already putting the brakes on people putting too much stock into my opinion. I can have a good read and suck on another. No one finds the entire wolf team day one and certainly not the king of bad day ones. I'm scum reading some townie. I think I'm scum reading scums too but the game is solved by finding all 4 not just 1, and not wasting a ton of townie lives rushing the rest of the process.

I also haven't read the posts after my last one before the flip because I was seriously nervous and couldn't handle it anymore.

[Dp101]

You can't see why, immediately after a CFD absolutely devastated your wolf team in a recent game, you getting seemingly antsy and belligerent at the mere thought of a cfd might seem odd to me?

It's not how I treat wolf partners, anyway. Look at any wolf game of mine, if someone is struggling like Logic and never going to recover I cut them loose.

Your sudden paranoia seems contrived.

I wouldn't describe that game as recent, at all. It's recent in org terms, but I've played many more games on MU since then and TBH had forgotten most of the details from then. The only part I remembered was when I was on the chopping block, trying to start a CFD on Monty to try and get out of the lynch. I had misremembered and thought that my lynch had been a consistent push throughout the day, and so, I had it in my head that the only role CFDs had in that game was to almost save the mafia. I also did not know that you would not try to save scumbuddies in this situation.

[El Barto]

I'm bored.

Vote: Choxorn

Vote: Dp101

I'm parking my vote on you tomorrow.

[reinoe]

So why are you not voting somebody of whom you are highly suspicious?

If you need help with British idioms, ask Winston, but I will say that this is very boring of you.

Wolfy pop-in by El Barto

[Zack]

I wouldn't describe that game as recent, at all. It's recent in org terms, but I've played many more games on MU since then and TBH had forgotten most of the details from then. The only part I remembered was when I was on the chopping block, trying to start a CFD on Monty to try and get out of the lynch. I had misremembered and thought that my lynch had been a consistent push throughout the day, and so, I had it in my head that the only role CFDs had in that game was to almost save the mafia. I also did not know that you would not try to save scumbuddies in this situation.

Xcom on mu

[Askthepizzaguy]

reinoe, if I die will you carry my candle and make sure someone isn't forgotten about for me?

I'll let you know who it is by end of night. I just want one good read I'm pretty sure about to not completely vanish.

If you just blatantly disagree with it that's fine, you can decline. There are other ways someone can die even if there's a doc.