Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

You seemed frozen and to not really have any strong feelings about who was lynched

villagers care about eod. effen theorem goat.

Strong feelings? I acknowledged for half a day that Pizza's case on Logic was solid. I never expected the Chox wagon to blow up.

I did care about EOD.

[Zack]

Strong feelings? I acknowledged for half a day that Pizza's case on Logic was solid. I never expected the Chox wagon to blow up.

I did care about EOD.

You certainly did not express strong feelings on Logic.

[Montmorency]

You certainly did not express strong feelings on Logic.

That's my point. So why would I suddenly develop strong feelings if nothing had changed?

[Zack]

That's my point. So why would I suddenly develop strong feelings if nothing had changed?

That's not what I said.

You never had any strong feelings, on anything. You stirred the pot and watched the chaos.

[Montmorency]

That's not what I said.

You never had any strong feelings, on anything. You stirred the pot and watched the chaos.

I called it as I saw it. You were the one dipping your stirring rod or whatever.

[Slaan]

Strong feelings? I acknowledged for half a day that Pizza's case on Logic was solid. I never expected the Chox wagon to blow up.

I did care about EOD.

Ugh that post feels baaad. Never expected for the Chox wagon to blow up but the Chox wagon was in the lead at some point (6 to 5).. and the way he cared about the EoD was also rather aritificial with the proposed tie and preflip wagonomics... only thing good looking here is that was in response to Zack sussing him. Monty being mafia would also mean that all four mafia were on Chox at some point which doesnt seem all that likely.. in addition to him defending me today...

[Montmorency]

I havent ever seen a wolf anouncing his doc blocked night vig in thread for no reason.... but yea that appears to be the linchpin in your case against me and I can't defend from that. I was merely blindly speculating on possibilities and what else could've happened during the night (mainly because I thought the Winston kill to be odd but w/e) without giving it much thought, but that will become obvious after I flip or the game ends. Will stop defending myself overall from this as I don't see it going anywhere, if you think that I would make such a blunder then lynching me is the correct play for you and I can't fault you for that (doesnt change the fact that I think the case to be bad though but w/e, it's not like we have any slam dunk cases left anyway).

I will now pick up where I left off when rereading and see if I can get through the rest before EoD.

@Askthepizzaguy

If there is a town doctor, and Slaan talked about 3 killing powers in the game, and he did it because he is a Mafia vig that failed to kill you or whoever N1, and he was setting the stage to make claims about role actions later in the game to frame Choxorn, protect teammates, or clear himself, then why hasn't a town doctor come forward to confirm a N1 protection? No point hiding since claiming, "I protected Pizza N1" seals the case and the game surely ends with lynching Slaan. OTOH, silence suggests either that the case on Slaan is wrong, or there is no town doctor, which causes to weaken the other assumptions of the case against Slaan.

Unvote: Slaan

Vote: Barto

That being said I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling from Fred... why does he have problem in reading Monty as long as I'm around? Doesnt matter what my affiliation is, as either I'm scum then the game ends when I'm lynched or I'm town in which case the game proceeds... so they only way it makes sense to look at monty should be under the assumption that I'm town.

Well, he should. As long as he's doing a critical ISO, best to get everything coherent in one sitting.

Ugh that post feels baaad. Never expected for the Chox wagon to blow up but the Chox wagon was in the lead at some point (6 to 5).. and the way he cared about the EoD was also rather aritificial with the proposed tie and preflip wagonomics... only thing good looking here is that was in response to Zack sussing him. Monty being mafia would also mean that all four mafia were on Chox at some point which doesnt seem all that likely.. in addition to him defending me today...

It was never in the lead. I started it because the case against Choxorn at the time was better than the one against other low-posters. GH and Zack joined almost immediately, then Reinoe and Logic self-pres. Winston was a pressure-voter and returned to Logic once the wagons got close.

I didn't present it as a lynch that had to happen over Logic's, and my response to Zack (1) pointed out that my not pushing Choxorn (2) as the alternative to Logic did not mean I didn't care about EOD (3). That's the sequence of propositions.

[Slaan]

Not sure about your doc point, that would only be correct if the doc received information that his protect was succesful (which there is no way that happened). If he just protected pizza then that doesnt make me as scum imo because it makes no difference as I'm not vig and I didnt shoot at pizza... only thing that would tell us is that pizzas theory isnt 100% wrong (any other protect would make that clear).

Also: Here you have the Chox wagon being in the lead:

Vote count:

Pizza (1): Manasi

Zack (1): Xiahou

Logic (5): Pizza, Dp101, Slaan, Choxorn, Kagemusha

Reinoe (1): Fredwood

El Barto (1): Csargo

Choxorn (6): Montmorency, Zack, GH, Winston Hughes, Reinoe, Logic

Xiahou (1): El Barto


Not voting (1): Cuthillius,

With 17 players there are 9 to hammer.


EOD1:

[Montmorency]

Not sure about your doc point, that would only be correct if the doc received information that his protect was succesful (which there is no way that happened). If he just protected pizza then that doesnt make me as scum imo because it makes no difference as I'm not vig and I didnt shoot at pizza... only thing that would tell us is that pizzas theory isnt 100% wrong (any other protect would make that clear).

Also: Here you have the Chox wagon being in the lead:

A doctor claim would support the existence of a Mafia vig, and so Pizza's mechanical case against you. It's not 100%, but it's pretty strong, in that case.

Vote: Logic

For more than 12 hours, the wagon had 2 votes, then after GH made #3 in just a couple hours it reached its peak of 6. Half an hour after Logic pushed Choxorn past his own wagon, Winston switched.

[Slaan]

A doctor claim would support the existence of a Mafia vig, and so Pizza's mechanical case against you. It's not 100%, but it's pretty strong, in that case.

Ok dumb question: Wouldnt a doc also protect from mafia faction kill? (thats how it works on my homeboard...) or does it only protect against vigs?

For more than 12 hours, the wagon had 2 votes, then after GH made #3 in just a couple hours it reached its peak of 6. Half an hour after Logic pushed Choxorn past his own wagon, Winston switched.

True, but I still think it's weird to say 'I didnt expect it to blow up' (then why vote and argue for it in the first place)... Idk just feels off a bit. Then you just know also said that it was never the lead wagon... but I suppose some amnesia is going around so I don't fault you for that ;)

[Montmorency]

In other news, I feel like poking the bear a bit.

Vote: Manasi

It's probably somewhere in between how well she thinks I can read her and how well I think I can read her.

I think I can read her reasonably well.

not really

I think she's one that's easier to read when a wolf or two has already flipped. I'm not too good, and by which I mean horrible, at reading her tonally or by content.

Winston asks GH and Zack how well they can read Manasi. GH can read Manasi "reasonably well"; Zack reads Manasi "horribly".

GH went after Manasi and Zack never joined him. Soon after, Zack launched a case against Barto, which GH did not join.

This is just a tendril, but I'm working on a thesis that GH and Zack actively tried to differentiate their reads from each other's on the same people or things. If this is correct, then we should try to use the flips so far to make a model using the comparisons between reads and attitudes. It could help isolate candidates for their partner. Logic could affect this modeling, but to manage complexity we should do GH-Zack bivariate first and separately before we add Logic as a third variable. Since Logic has relatively few reads or interactions, it shouldn't be hard to layer the modifications onto the completed bivariate model.

Ok dumb question: Wouldnt a doc also protect from mafia faction kill? (thats how it works on my homeboard...) or does it only protect against vigs?

Would it matter? Whether or not (as Pizza wondered) a solo Mafia could wield two kills, if the game started with Mafia teamkill + vig, then as long as one of the kills gets blocked the effect is the same. Whether Winston, or Kagemusha, was a TK or a vig shouldn't affect the case wrt Town doctor.

True, but I still think it's weird to say 'I didnt expect it to blow up' (then why vote and argue for it in the first place)... Idk just feels off a bit. Then you just know also said that it was never the lead wagon... but I suppose some amnesia is going around so I don't fault you for that ;)

To have the case in the thread. Clearly, that's useful.

It was lead wagon for half an hour, cut me some slack.