Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Fredwood]

I did announce that I was rereading the thread at like 20:30 or smth iirc and started to spampost a bit every time I saw a small spew (which stopped as I didnt want to overspam the thread as stated earlier)

Nah I'm not talking about that, It's a bit sassy, the general point being that most everything since N1 has been a lot of everyone repeating themselves, so the impression that you're the only one working outside of Pizza is kind of funny to me.

I wanted to express that Monty wasnt in my lock town categorie and I could see him being scum. But he has some solid points going for him imo so he is not in the immediate PoE but also not secure enought hat I would like to F3 with him... It's like I don't know where to put him exactly so I came up with the F5 thingy. Didnt even consider how many lynches we had left at that point so it made sense to me then.. now knowing we have 4 lynches most likely it doesnt anymore, sure, considering the rest of my PoE is scummier in my eyes.

I guess? So you're saying you'd lynch Barto after him? Because it looks like as if you're saying your final 5 is Pizza, Bart, DP101, You and Monty. No offense to Monty, he's not spewed or anything when half the thread is spewed. It almost feels like appeasement because Monty could break the game because of WIM and he's in a similar position to you so would have a greater drive to do so then anyone else.

Still don't get why you'd be fine with Bart getting to Final 3.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza’s gun was also a gift, so that was already confirmed.

And Slaan hinted joat giver as his possible fake claim just now. So he knows what's up.

Would you want joat_giving!slaan to claim here?

Idea behind this pseudo claim, survive the day, pizza backs off, kill pizza or pizza chases a new car, later claim it was trying to draw a kill.

Don't see him actually saying this quote if he's VT.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If he's scum he cannot claim one of the confirmed known roles, if he had a living partner he could but he can't now, he's just counterclaimed.

If he's scum and I just said he can't claim vanilla or I won't back off, he divides the baby in half and pseudo claims.

I asked for it to be made into a hard claim and he can't do that.

[Dp101]

And Slaan hinted joat giver as his possible fake claim just now. So he knows what's up.



Idea behind this pseudo claim, survive the day, pizza backs off, kill pizza or pizza chases a new car, later claim it was trying to draw a kill.

Don't see him actually saying this quote if he's VT.

I don’t see what part of that behaviour was scummy though, feels like he was having fun. Then again, that doesn’t seem to mesh well with the rest of his posts, and I don’t see why a villager would say that. Idk.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don’t see what part of that behaviour was scummy though, feels like he was having fun. Then again, that doesn’t seem to mesh well with the rest of his posts, and I don’t see why a villager would say that. Idk.

I'd just ask you to re-read him from day 1 and then vote your conscience.

If you don't agree then you don't agree. If I am wrong I need someone else to be right.

[Slaan]

Nah I'm not talking about that, It's a bit sassy, the general point being that most everything since N1 has been a lot of everyone repeating themselves, so the impression that you're the only one working outside of Pizza is kind of funny to me.

Maybe that was just my own impression... considering I did as you've said since N1 basically... just went down the PoE and didnt care much outside that ^^. Well I didnt even vote on D2 iirc, I wanted GH to post something before he is hammered but that never happened...

I guess? So you're saying you'd lynch Barto after him? Because it looks like as if you're saying your final 5 is Pizza, Bart, DP101, You and Monty. No offense to Monty, he's not spewed or anything when half the thread is spewed. It almost feels like appeasement because Monty could break the game because of WIM and he's in a similar position to you so would have a greater drive to do so then anyone else.

Still don't get why you'd be fine with Bart getting to Final 3.

I didnt do the math when I made my post so chances are this doesnt work out as I've written down. Then again I probably wouldnt mind Bart in F3? It's a tough one between Monty and Bart tbh, Monty is more towny from WIM/solving and his going hard after Zack D1 and not minding the Logic wagon. Bart on the other hand I think is spewed town from the way Zack/GH acted...

I just think it so unlikely that Zack and GH are defending scum!Logic as strong as they were and proposing scum!Bart as an alternative wagon. I mean it's not impossible, nothing is yada yada... but I don't see it happening. If they wanted to bus a partner they couldve just jumped on the Logic wagon early... At some point the Logic issue did become a Point of no return for them imo (couldnt have made a 180° ) but I think it was still very much possible when they went after Barto? At least that's the impression I got, at the time there was 'only' pizza that pushed him hard, dp+ (someone, don't remember.. kage prolly) that sheeped pizza and me on the wagon... which is why GH and Zack tried so hard to save Logic int he first place - it was still very much possible. But then whyyy go after their last scumbuddy? Just seems so unlikely in my book

[Slaan]

I don’t see what part of that behaviour was scummy though, feels like he was having fun. Then again, that doesn’t seem to mesh well with the rest of his posts, and I don’t see why a villager would say that. Idk.

What. Ppl have been accusing me of bantering and reading me wolfy for that and now I'm supposed to not have fun?

[Montmorency]

The formatting is tricky. I'm unsure how to parse it.

I read all of Slaan's posts up until almost end of day 1 again. What I remember is that he had a very banter-y, slow start, made a comment about Logic to the tune of he didn't really agree with what I was accusing Logic of, I remember the passive aggression at Cuth post, and I remember that he hard bussed Logic and then named 4 other suspects, none were GH or Zack even though he had them in his mild scummy pile earlier than that post.

After that, GH and Zack outed themselves so any content after D1 is not alignment indicative.

OK, just by the 24 hours here's a condensed view that might reflect the harshest interpretation of Slaan (easier to give a charitable interpretation of later content, which you did):

0. Slaan recently is affirming the principle that we shouldn't even be seeing multi-scum sussing or distancing in D1 given the Logic threat. My own position is that we should expect controlled distancing, especially after halfway into D1. So keep in mind that this is a bit less than the first half of D1.
1. In opening posts Slaan talks about only playing with GH and Fred out of this group, some chance of reading. Cuth and Manasi were in mashes, but not enough familiarity to read with confidence. Slaan now has Cuth and Fred in upper half of POE. If you're going by the long-term significance route.
2. Slaan almost entirely banters for 16 posts, mostly w/ Zack and Winston, then Logic arrives at the tail end to begin his first round, including getting sussed by Pizza. GH welcome-votes Slaan, and Logic expresses relief that GH didn't do that when it was Logic's first ORG game.
3. Kage votes Slaan as a joke and Manasi thinks Slaan is uncomfortable and scummy. Zack soft-challenges her and Kage. Logic says Kage's vote on Slaan is lazy and begins the voting and other interactions between the two. Logic says Slaan is not scum, Kage asks why, etc.
4. Slaan returns, jokes about lynching Pizza, Winston and DP chuckle sensibly about it, and later Logic attacks Winston as having PIS wrt Pizza (Winston also a bit earlier questioned his own first town read on Slaan).
5. Vote Csargo for discussing OMGUS with Zack in a weird way, and wants to lynch Kage as a joke over skins.
6. Possible buddying with Winston and DP.
7. Slaan gives a big reads post, considers Logic, Zack, and GH in nullish and jokey ways. Zack now finds "DP, Fred, and Slaan are the only people I feel good about saying they're above null."
7. Kage feels no scumminess from Slaan now but wonders why Logic doesn't want to become involved in thread. Slaan counters that Logic is involved in thread, and confident that he can become town for Kage ("easy hurdle").
8. Slaan reads Zack true town after wallposts and other friendly interactions. GH says Slaan and Fred are down a tier but he can't really explain it; Zack disagrees only on Slaan.
9.

Everyone note it down: If GH mislynches me kill GH :)

Pizza, don't go full volcano, we have 45 hours and I'm taking this slow.

[Slaan]

If he's scum he cannot claim one of the confirmed known roles, if he had a living partner he could but he can't now, he's just counterclaimed.

If he's scum and I just said he can't claim vanilla or I won't back off, he divides the baby in half and pseudo claims.

I asked for it to be made into a hard claim and he can't do that.

I did hardclaim VT though? I mean it's not helping me for sure... I was actually wondering of claiming a role and maybe getting NK'd for it but that didnt work so far with my vig fake claim and I think it would've been pretty obvious that it was fake... not to mention the risk of the real joat_giver whatever outing himself after seeing my fakeclaim and thinking 'aha, got the last scum here!'. What you saw there was my live thought process... should I fake claim? nah.

To be fair though, that is entirely NAI ^^

[Dp101]

What. Ppl have been accusing me of bantering and reading me wolfy for that and now I'm supposed to not have fun?

I didn’t say you shouldn’t be having fun, what I said was that given the thread atmosphere when you claimed I’d be surprised if town!you would be playing around.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, don't go full volcano, we have 45 hours and I'm taking this slow.

I got one vote and it's not going anywhere.

We have stuff to talk about today, so no quick hammer is needed.

We can afford to discuss who was deep in our town who might not belong there, and this is the only time several of us will have to do so. If we just plunge forward in the POE, which is made up of people I had at least mild town reads on at some point, we're going for the low hanging fruit.

If it is in the low hanging fruit, fine. But if it's not, then we're not fine.

[Montmorency]

This is the first game I actually did this fake claming stuff... or at least tried to do it sorta convincingly. I mean did fakeclaim as mafia on my homeboard at times when it came around Lylo etc etc but not like this, it's an interesting strategy I think and I was bored so figured why not.

Wait, so where is this fake-softing in the thread?

And Pizza hates the thought of fake-claiming mafia, right?

I don't think I had them in my slight scum pile, I had them at neutral iirc. Slight scum was Monty and csargo if I'm not mistaken at the time.

Regarding Logic.. well yea, from my perspective your push was purely a meta read which I can't really agree with.. I mean how, I don't have the meta. I thought logic was fairly alright-ish... except for his townread on me which I just ignored at first for a random rvs read and was more on Csargo at the time. Only when I reread after your push did I realise his read was meant to be seriously and that it made no sense from scum.

Well, you said in your first big reads post:

Didnt start solving really so far, a slight post on Kagemusha, a townread on me (which makes him scum ;))... I expect more!

Pizza’s gun was also a gift, so that was already confirmed.

I mean, it's evidence that Pizza wasn't lying one way or another.

[Montmorency]

I got one vote and it's not going anywhere.

We have stuff to talk about today, so no quick hammer is needed.

We can afford to discuss who was deep in our town who might not belong there, and this is the only time several of us will have to do so. If we just plunge forward in the POE, which is made up of people I had at least mild town reads on at some point, we're going for the low hanging fruit.

If it is in the low hanging fruit, fine. But if it's not, then we're not fine.

I'm complaining about the pace of discussion in the moment. I'm just being a baby.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I did hardclaim VT though? I mean it's not helping me for sure... I was actually wondering of claiming a role and maybe getting NK'd for it but that didnt work so far with my vig fake claim and I think it would've been pretty obvious that it was fake... not to mention the risk of the real joat_giver whatever outing himself after seeing my fakeclaim and thinking 'aha, got the last scum here!'. What you saw there was my live thought process... should I fake claim? nah.

To be fair though, that is entirely NAI ^^

I get you. But in case others don't get you or me, to be completely clear to the observer:

You bluffed that you were about to claim the santa role, it was phrased hypothetically if you had such a role was I really making you claim it here, and I said with the "absolutely" post to make it not hypothetical.

That's what I mean about the hard claim. I know you hard claimed VT after.

My thought is that is because you couldn't hard claim anything else unless town had a third power role versus two flipped vanilla scums. It's possible but I'd consider town too stacked in such a game. The other possibility is that you were scum and wanted me to back off, so you improvised.

You're either vanilla town or scum. We agree on that much.

[Slaan]

0. Slaan recently is affirming the principle that we shouldn't even be seeing multi-scum sussing or distancing in D1 given the Logic threat. My own position is that we should expect controlled distancing, especially after halfway into D1. So keep in mind that this is a bit less than the first half of D1.

True. As long as the Logic wagon wasnt set in stone (and I really feel it wasnt for the first half.. even first 2/3 of D1) and GH/Zack tried hard to get ppl off him and onto others (especially bart imo) I don't think they were distancing with their actual pushes. There might've been low key distancing going on but nothing they really pushed imo. Again, I don't think defending one scum partner thats under alot of pressure and offering the last partner up as an alternative is a thing.

1. In opening posts Slaan talks about only playing with GH and Fred out of this group, some chance of reading. Cuth and Manasi were in mashes, but not enough familiarity to read with confidence. Slaan now has Cuth and Fred in upper half of POE. If you're going by the long-term significance route.

Cuth and Fred are in my PoE for PoE reasons, not because I think them particularly scummy. Only one I find scummy currently is Chox.

2. Slaan almost entirely banters for 16 posts, mostly w/ Zack and Winston, then Logic arrives at the tail end to begin his first round, including getting sussed by Pizza. GH welcome-votes Slaan, and Logic expresses relief that GH didn't do that when it was Logic's first ORG game.

That's what I've learnred to do at the start of the game, just talk a bit to get some sort of reads on ppl... not even AI reads but just how they play, how active they are, how open etc. Nothing that could ever be really put in words or actual gamey reads but to get a feel about ppl... Funny thing though about the GH voting me to welcome me: I noticed he didnt do that to renioe. I thought a bit that it might indicate reinoe scum to not treat her the same way (...) but now it looks kinda the opposite lol :D

3. Kage votes Slaan as a joke and Manasi thinks Slaan is uncomfortable and scummy. Zack soft-challenges her and Kage. Logic says Kage's vote on Slaan is lazy and begins the voting and other interactions between the two. Logic says Slaan is not scum, Kage asks why, etc.

I still don't know why Manasi thought I was uncomfortable.. I asked her but she didnt reply :(.

7. Kage feels no scumminess from Slaan now but wonders why Logic doesn't want to become involved in thread. Slaan counters that Logic is involved in thread, and confident that he can become town for Kage ("easy hurdle").

I don't recall that? I remember saying that Kage wanted the reason why Logic townread me which he did provide (which along the line made me scumread Logic) and Kage apparently didnt see.

8. Slaan reads Zack true town after wallposts and other friendly interactions. GH says Slaan and Fred are down a tier but he can't really explain it; Zack disagrees only on Slaan.

Yep, on top of his activity in the thread he had a good post I could nod along with on D1 is enough for me to put ppl in my townpile. Well my townpile is more often than not 'ppl I'd least want to lynch' ... it also gave me pause yesterday and I didnt think that Zack would flip scum.. oh well :)

Rest isnt something I can comment on... Just figured I add my thoughts/context.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I still think there is a doctor, a full doctor, because a strongman killer makes no sense against a gift giver / inventor role that will likely give out 1 doctor protection.

It's possible the strongman is just to counter the inventor's doc gift, but that makes such a role for town really really weak.

A one shot doctor is super weak anyway. It's highly unlikely to make any impact on a game.

Strongman only makes sense to counter a full doc.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I still don't know why Manasi thought I was uncomfortable.. I asked her but she didnt reply

Well if she was right, she's gonna laugh and laugh at me in post. And I agree.

[Slaan]

Wait, so where is this fake-softing in the thread?

And Pizza hates the thought of fake-claiming mafia, right?

I said two or three times smth like 'If I had a vig I might vig here' or smth

Well, you said in your first big reads post:

Uhm yea? I saw his townread but didnt think much of it at the time, thought it was rvs random read or smth. After I read the thread for the first time and Zack said smth like 'I like to mafia read ppl that townread me as this makes me towny' which I think I referenced in my big read list... which I said I also do at times. Then there was this random townread from Logic on me which just seemed random at the time, so I made a funny (and ppl say I dont have fun) comment regarding it referencing Zack's earlier statement about reading early town reads as mafia and moved on not minding it any more than that. My mind was more on Zacks comment on those issues than it was on the townread of Logic himself.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wait, so where is this fake-softing in the thread?

And Pizza hates the thought of fake-claiming mafia, right?

I can show you.

I distinctly remember it happening. So I put Slaan in my "maybe he's got a vig shot, and me claiming to have one will keep him alive" plans.

I also put him in the gift-giver possibility slot after I got the gun.

He was very interested in my claims all game, so either he was preparing to counter me, kill me, or he was a town power role.

Hard claim Vanilla townie is very unexpected after that.

So give me a second. I'll locate it.

[Slaan]

I get you. But in case others don't get you or me, to be completely clear to the observer:

You bluffed that you were about to claim the santa role, it was phrased hypothetically if you had such a role was I really making you claim it here, and I said with the "absolutely" post to make it not hypothetical.

That's what I mean about the hard claim. I know you hard claimed VT after.

My thought is that is because you couldn't hard claim anything else unless town had a third power role versus two flipped vanilla scums. It's possible but I'd consider town too stacked in such a game. The other possibility is that you were scum and wanted me to back off, so you improvised.

Yea basically. I would've loved to fakeclaim smth and trying to get myself NK'd but the risk seemed too great

You're either vanilla town or scum. We agree on that much.

Nope, I'm never scum thisi game :). I really don't think I'd start shading GH D1 after the hammer is dropping on Logic. Feel free to check the orchestrated Chaos game, I tried to keep my buddies around as long as I saw a chance for them to get in the game.. once I realised that's not gonna happen I bussed them. In context of this game I'd bus Logic hard, but never GH.

[Montmorency]

I still think there is a doctor, a full doctor, because a strongman killer makes no sense against a gift giver / inventor role that will likely give out 1 doctor protection.

It's possible the strongman is just to counter the inventor's doc gift, but that makes such a role for town really really weak.

A one shot doctor is super weak anyway. It's highly unlikely to make any impact on a game.

Strongman only makes sense to counter a full doc.

Given that the JOAT also gave out a vig, maybe we're looking at a bulletproof.

Maybe that was just my own impression... considering I did as you've said since N1 basically... just went down the PoE and didnt care much outside that ^^. Well I didnt even vote on D2 iirc, I wanted GH to post something before he is hammered but that never happened...



I didnt do the math when I made my post so chances are this doesnt work out as I've written down. Then again I probably wouldnt mind Bart in F3? It's a tough one between Monty and Bart tbh, Monty is more towny from WIM/solving and his going hard after Zack D1 and not minding the Logic wagon. Bart on the other hand I think is spewed town from the way Zack/GH acted...

I just think it so unlikely that Zack and GH are defending scum!Logic as strong as they were and proposing scum!Bart as an alternative wagon. I mean it's not impossible, nothing is yada yada... but I don't see it happening. If they wanted to bus a partner they couldve just jumped on the Logic wagon early... At some point the Logic issue did become a Point of no return for them imo (couldnt have made a 180° ) but I think it was still very much possible when they went after Barto? At least that's the impression I got, at the time there was 'only' pizza that pushed him hard, dp+ (someone, don't remember.. kage prolly) that sheeped pizza and me on the wagon... which is why GH and Zack tried so hard to save Logic int he first place - it was still very much possible. But then whyyy go after their last scumbuddy? Just seems so unlikely in my book

But if Bart is cleared from a brief timeframe in mid-day, then why isn't Choxorn even more spewed clear?

I made the case of controlled distancing as a strategy. Barto was never really under threat for more than 5 minutes. OTOH, if he (or Chox) were under threat

I think in the end one of Chox/Bart has to be scum, and the other is like camouflage. (This Slaan YOLO needs very serious consideration, since if it's wrong then it's very very wrong)

I said two or three times smth like 'If I had a vig I might vig here' or smth



Uhm yea? I saw his townread but didnt think much of it at the time, thought it was rvs random read or smth. After I read the thread for the first time and Zack said smth like 'I like to mafia read ppl that townread me as this makes me towny' which I think I referenced in my big read list... which I said I also do at times. Then there was this random townread from Logic on me which just seemed random at the time, so I made a funny (and ppl say I dont have fun) comment regarding it referencing Zack's earlier statement about reading early town reads as mafia and moved on not minding it any more than that. My mind was more on Zacks comment on those issues than it was on the townread of Logic himself.

OK, so like Pizza.

Zack said to Winston (off the top of my head) that he is capable of challenging people's town reads of him as mafia because WIFOM.

[Slaan]

I can show you.

I distinctly remember it happening. So I put Slaan in my "maybe he's got a vig shot, and me claiming to have one will keep him alive" plans.

I also put him in the gift-giver possibility slot after I got the gun.

He was very interested in my claims all game, so either he was preparing to counter me, kill me, or he was a town power role.

Hard claim Vanilla townie is very unexpected after that.

So give me a second. I'll locate it.

lol. While I also read your vig claim (and thought it was bs ^^) I never imagined you fake claiming it to protect me ^^. That's ridiculous, you fake claim covered the fake claimer... and neither of us died during the night... Which.. wat. I mean I guess pizza not dying makes sense, considering he was the most likely doc target and all but then why winston of me? From the way this discussion went only pizza realised my claim and I think most saw it as the fake it was? Or they saw that my most likely vig targets was shitty N1 and figured they look for the doc? Guess that makes some sense

[Montmorency]

OTOH, if he (or Chox) were under threat

... then as part of the radical diversion-onto-scum strategy Logic would be saved for a while and Zack and GH would get cred for lynching scum.

[Slaan]

But if Bart is cleared from a brief timeframe in mid-day, then why isn't Choxorn even more spewed clear?

I made the case of controlled distancing as a strategy. Barto was never really under threat for more than 5 minutes. OTOH, if he (or Chox) were under threat

From the way I read the thread it was rather likely that the Bart wagon could gain lots of steam... but again I havent finished rereading, I'm still at ~50% at page 30. So I'm gonig to stop making hard reads until I'm done with that.. just from memory Bart seemed like a very valid wagon midday while Chox was just a desperate attempt towards the end but maybe my memory of this is wrong... let me reread tomorrow and I'll get back to you. On this note

Unvote: Chox

[Slaan]

Also w/ that I'm out of the thread, it's 3am by now so time for some z's :)

[Fredwood]

I just think it so unlikely that Zack and GH are defending scum!Logic as strong as they were and proposing scum!Bart as an alternative wagon. I mean it's not impossible, nothing is yada yada... but I don't see it happening. If they wanted to bus a partner they couldve just jumped on the Logic wagon early... At some point the Logic issue did become a Point of no return for them imo (couldnt have made a 180° ) but I think it was still very much possible when they went after Barto? At least that's the impression I got, at the time there was 'only' pizza that pushed him hard, dp+ (someone, don't remember.. kage prolly) that sheeped pizza and me on the wagon... which is why GH and Zack tried so hard to save Logic int he first place - it was still very much possible. But then whyyy go after their last scumbuddy? Just seems so unlikely in my book

So why is Chox in your POE? His spew case is just as valid as Barts, in my mind it's better then Bart's. It isn't because he's acting scummier, the entirety of peoples read on Chox is because of what people have said or done to him this game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.

This looks more like directing the vig than a claim or crumb, but it could be a crumb.

Oh yea I'm not saying that barto is playing well or anything and was I a vig I'd maybe just vig this night... but you had a real read on Zack iirc and change it to someone that just didnt give a crap so far? I mean it's not wolfy per se... just not something I'd do ^^

Also looks like directing the vig to Barto, but now that it's repeated it feels crumb-y.

Much later, and referring to Zack:

He's deep wolfing extremely well right now, more than he's towning, imo. If I had a vig shot I'd shoot him tonight since he's never gonna be lynched because only me and Monty can even see it.

I'm not moving and I cannot just sit here for the next 45 minutes (now 30), I'm too deeply invested in this lynch. If the flip is what I think it is, I need all of night phase to really give it my best and final analysis before end of night, for obvious reasons, and to make sure any shot I may or may not have lands correctly. (snip)

After those two posts, Slaan goes:

I'm not going to comment on pizzas last post >_<

I'm also really wondering which roles there will be in this game in the end. Doc is clear on our side... but I imagine a vig would've vigged Chox or someone last night. Maybe Winston was vigged from mafia and their NK on pizza failed? What other roles could there be in a game such as this? (my homeboard only uses the same boring roles over and over and they don't seem likely)... don't speculate on this, don't think it helps town... just things I wonder.

Strange post. Why assume mafia have a NK and a vig, especially if you've been hinting you are a vig?

...

Are you an odd night vigilante, Slaan?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Let me check. He basically hinted that he would have shot choxorn on night 1.

Even if dp101 didn't protect me, my guess is the full doctor would have unless they also changed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why would choxorn be protected on night one though. That doesn't make any sense.

Chox shouldn't be the n1 doc target. And the first inventor gift would have been the gun, delivered too late to affect N1.

Unless choxorn is a bulletproof, the only thing that makes sense is that Slaan is hinting that he shot choxorn, when he wasn't protected, and was actually shooting elsewhere.

Which you don't lie about if you're town.

[Fredwood]

I got ninja'd while watching the baseball game...which comes down to the crux of the issue with Bart being final 3

If Bart is Town and makes it to final 3, town doesn't win. The thing that keeps making me go back and forth is that putting Bart that high makes no sense as either alignment, It's just an odd stance to take on him. Discounting half the spew and holding up the other spew as relevant....all I ask is for consistency in the spew, maybe it all boils down to only being half through your re-read, but still even when re-checking things I remember the context of the thread at the time. Especially if Zack is playing for a Bart before Zack flip.