Quote Originally Posted by Slaan View Post
This crumbing to make it believable is never done this openly though in my experience? Not to mention I still don't know why I would put myself out there as mafia... maybe it's because I know my own mafia playstyle rather well I'm 100% certain that such a strategy is way outside my scumrange... there is hardly any benefit from it I can see... not to mention in a closed setting where I wouldnt even know if there was a town vig? It just makes no sense to me no matter how I twist and turn it...
You don't need to know if there's a town vigilante to fake being crumbing you have a vig.

The issue is not the town vig part. You keep focusing on this. At this point the only town vig in this game should have been my one shot I got from choxorn, because there's been only 1 night with an extra kill.

The issue was always you suggesting there was a mafia team kill, and a mafia night vigilante shot, with only 1 dead person.

A vanilla townie does not assume there being two scum kills when there's one visible.

A vanilla townie crumbing a possible vig target, as you've admitted to doing this game, crumbing you might have some sort of power role and repeatedly referencing vigs [most especially in the post where you claim the mafia team have a team kill and a vig, not to mention your multiple posts before that talking about if you had a shot], that is a person who could plausibly claim that there were two kills, only one visible, by suggesting they might have hit a bulletproof mafia or a scum doctored mafia or just been roleblocked or whatever, interference. A vanilla townie is unlikely to make such a claim, because it's a bit like fake claiming a guilty cop check as vanilla. It's lying and it's also without info, a fancy play. I don't assume people do this by default, I have to see them do it.

But the issue is, you were not claiming two kills in that post were town and mafia kills. You were claiming there was a mafia vig and a mafia team kill in that post, while suggesting a town vig should have been vigging elsewhere, or did. It's ambiguous.

But you still arrive at a 2 kill theory, with 1 visible, both controlled by scums, while being vanilla townie.

What makes a lot more sense is if you are suggesting you know or strongly suspect there's a scum vig in the game.

It's not intuitive to get such a meaning from that post, which is why everyone including me glossed over it even though I'd been seeing your crumbs at that point.

If you know or strongly suspect there's a scum vig in some game, you'd the town vigilante in that game most likely. That's the most common reason why a townie would suspect there's a scum vig. Say, a limited vig, like an odd or even night vigilante. Then, often times, the mafia has an odd or even night vigilante to match it, or a full vig. Often times when townies get a regular or semi-regular vig role, they're tipped off a bit about the setup. Usually the scums have extra kill power if the townies have any.

Now, you've since then hard claimed not to be a town vigilante and we don't appear to have one besides the inventor-like role's one shot.

But, if you were neither a vanilla townie (as a vanilla townie shouldn't be speculating on two scum kills when 1 is visible)

Nor are you a town vigilante (as you have claimed not to be and the kills suggest doesn't exist)

You could have done the above in this scenario.

You are the scum vig or have access to a special one shot, or an irregular vig of some kind.

In such a scenario, if you were crumbing that you might be a town one shot or limited vigilante (to claim in the event you get lynched one day) what helps sell such a claim is you suggesting who you might have targeted. In this case choxorn. Then his non-death becomes suspicious, and he's already under suspicion at the time, and as it happens, had lynched Logic and had been pushing back on Zack and GH both.

As such, he is a High Value Mislynch Target.

If you only have a limited vig at your disposal, and wish to eliminate or toss suspicion onto choxorn, and you have a couple of teammates alive who could really use a big fancy claim to make sure they live, there is some benefit to crumbing.

It gives you options.

Since it's a crumb that's very hypothetical, it's unlikely to be pushed on if you decide to never pursue the gambit. I often crumb stuff as vanilla townie or scum. I've seen lots of scums crumb powers they don't have. They don't necessarily have to hard claim them.

I'd be baffled if this is outside of your experience as well, so none of this should be as shocking as you describe it to be.

Arent you suggesting I'm the mafia vig that targeted Winston or you N1? If you don't think so then you going after my speculative posts makes even less sense because why as mafia would I even wonder if there were night kills against both you and Winston? And when I NK someone there goes a little more thought into it then just 'he isnt on my team'.
Yes, and why wouldn't both Winston and I get targeted on Night one?

The doctor can't cover both, and the mafia team just lost their strongman. Not only did we both look townie but we were both pressing hard onto the next potential scum flips, to some extent. Eliminating either of us gives the scums less of a narrative/control disadvantage.

As long as Winston and Pizza are alive and helping to direct lynches, the game goes badly. Getting one or both of us dead was essential.

Again, I don't see how either shot would be thoughtless, and in your own post, you suggested exactly those two names as the most likely targets. One having been targeted and dead, and then also me, for no reason that can be explained by being a vanilla townie.

I don't follow... so you agree that I'm no full vig I think? Because that would mean that I literally ran into a doc protection three times. Odd night vig? Would still not explain last night where I was the one being protected. So one shot vig... then again I don't understand why I'd ever use it N1.
Don't know if you could shoot twice as the last scum, and don't understand how definitely guaranteed hitting and killing one of Pizza/Winston or possibly even killing both if the town didn't have a doctor, but bulletproof role(s) instead, is so outlandish.

You keep dismissing these hypothetical situations as totally unreasonable, when they should be basic scummery 101.

If the town has a vig shot, for example, it's dangerous to hold onto a limited firepower shot for too long. You could die without making use of it. And as predictable as the game has been in retrospect, it was far from a lock at the time that you'd never be a suspect again or wouldn't take some flak for suggesting that Zack was town, or agreeing with Zack and GH that dp101 looked bad during the cfd event.

Town points come and go. I'd never be so silly as to use a limited shot I might have in an unpredictable game when we have clear absolutely must kill targets alive threatening live scums, is not a valid thinking process to me.







When did I ever claim that this is part of my scum meta? My scum meta is being towny as much as I can to be cleared and then slowly ride it out until lylo.
That's exactly what I was referring to. Hard bussing and looking supertownie. I even said the only way you could be scum this game is if you were playing a deliberately supertownie strategem. You hard bussed Logic, and then when it was GH's turn, you dutifully also shaded him all round. Wasn't a hard choice to make.

The harder choice was defending Zack, since he looked as bad as GH did to many people, but you said you didn't think he was scum, even though the behaviors GH displayed toward that end of day were identical.

One doesn't get more town credits than all the town credits, and you had enough by bussing Logic and shading GH. You didn't need to also push Zack. You could argue that choxorn and Manasi had to go next after GH (which you did) and defend Zack (which you also did).

When I mentioned this to you, you confirmed that this is how you'd play the game as a scumbag.

You are aware of this, so you're conflating two separate thoughts. Deliberately, as far as I can tell. I'm not writing run-on sentences and I've explained and re-explained my argument several times now. In each case, when you've responded, you have seemingly deliberately misunderstood the argument.

Now I can buy that on the technical details of 2 versus 3 claimed kills when 1 is visible. Misunderstandings are possible there. Less so when I'm talking about two very separate concepts, your admission of your scum meta (and you remember what you said, because you wrote it) and what I am saying about vig crumbing. Those are separate arguments you're conflating, and I've explained this too many times for you to be accidentally conflating them.

I really don't want to believe that when you get into a jam, your defense is simply harsh AtE and rudeness.

Most likely such behaviors come from frustrated townies, but that's a really gross thing to town read you for and I am still having many outstanding problems with your game.

Mainly, a vanilla townie does not claim that there was two kills on night one and names them, when one was visible.

I haven't seen that happen in my experience. I can't put you as a town read at this point because you never sufficiently explained how you could make such an odd speculation.

But I have to be honest, I don't care.

If you're town, then I feel sick to my stomach for being wrong, and then your reaction. If you're mafia, I feel gross for other reasons.

I tried looking into Monty as an alternative creeper into my town list. Outside of the uncleared low poster types, who could infiltrate my town.

I am not seeing it from dp or freddo.

Thread is hard to read, especially Monty's posts. My conclusion is only that it's possible. I know he has it in him to look amazingly townie.

He was, in spite of his great posts, on choxorn and arguing for a tie. That's as close to scummy as I can see from him. He's also defending you a bit today, while then ending up voting you.

But that's pretty thin. And I've lost a lot of willpower to press forward on anything controversial atp.