Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

What is your assessment on Csargo?

I don't have a D1 analysis, but I think he's detached town who's poking at whatever he sees at the time he's available.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't have a D1 analysis, but I think he's detached town who's poking at whatever he sees at the time he's available.

So who are your suspects in total. Who would you lynch today, who would you never lynch today.

[Montmorency]

So who are your suspects in total. Who would you lynch today, who would you never lynch today.

0. If it's you, you can have it. I take you for granted as town.

1. DP and Choxorn lock town. I'd prefer not to look at DP in another light unless something in a reread specifically catches my eye.

2. I feel good about Csargo.

3. Cuth and Fred have performed strongly, with a fair amount of spew. Look at them last.

4. Xiahou is a wildcard that can't be overlooked.

5. Slaan may have to be lynched now, but despite my hesitance I think there's more total scumminess going for him than for Barto - then again there is also more total towniness.

At this point clear out Barto today, and if that fails try to recheck all the reads and interactions by flipped scum to see if there are special patterns in the ways they behave that are relevant to a Xiahou and Slaan TD, and other relationships.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Give me more about Csargo if you can, please.

[Montmorency]

Give me more about Csargo if you can, please.

Leaving aside D1, D2 saw the collapse of GH and D3 started with Zack dead. If these are Csargo's partners, he is remarkably consistent in affecting variously lolcatting and semi-serious observation, neither collapsing into chaos (if giving up on the game) nor making any real attempt to direct the agenda or to clear himself. Both his level and manner of participation are stable and proportionate to game state/activity since at least later in D1.

[El Barto]

Vote: Csargo
Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

I might have missed something, but why are you voting for him?

In lack of better leads, having expected the day to end way later and not while I'm off to IRL I'll just have to stick by this. vote: Xiahou.

If you're voting for me then specify whether there's any post(s) that made you feel I was a mafioso or whether it's just that I'm not clean enough and you need to whittle down the number of suspects. Bye.

So just to nail this: If the doc is around and has protected pizza and gets a confirmation that his protection worked then I agree. I'd laugh loud if that happened (as that would mean there is actually a mafia vig out there and shot pizza N1) but in that case I'm the obvious lynch and will laugh at it from the graveyard. But the existing of a doc that protected pizza N1 doesnt prove anything alone in my eyes.... clearing would be (at least in regard to pizzas theory) if the doc had protected someone else that night... but I'm not sure if I want the doc to out himself for that tbh, even with that clear I'd probably don't get back to the secure town pile after all that happened today so him staying quiet would probably be +EV even if I'm mislynched.

Didn't choxorn claim something?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Leaving aside D1, D2 saw the collapse of GH and D3 started with Zack dead. If these are Csargo's partners, he is remarkably consistent in affecting variously lolcatting and semi-serious observation, neither collapsing into chaos (if giving up on the game) nor making any real attempt to direct the agenda or to clear himself. Both his level and manner of participation are stable and proportionate to game state/activity since at least later in D1.

My observations about Csargo is that he doesn't really break a poker face no matter what the game state is.

If his partners are all under pressure, or himself, he may not react at all.

I think if there was a tell, it would be something along the lines of breaking character as opposed to showing visible signs of stress.

Something like changing tactics or levels of seriousness about the game. The evenness in terms of stress or reaction to pressure on him or the outed wolves I'd expect, the evenness in how he's playing the game in the phases we've seen so far is really good wolfing from him if that's what it is. I think that might be the only thing he wouldn't normally control, is the overall approach to the game. At some point, the changing game state should have caused a crack and gotten him to attempt to win town points and get out of the POE.

Mainly, in how he'd be interacting with the town core.

If I were to come up with a theory on how to read Csargo as scum, which... as he's seeing me type this it can probably become invalid the next time he rands scum. The tells only work if you're not aware they are a tell.

What I've seen lines up with your own characterization.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Csargo

Page 1: NAI / banter

Page 2: NAI / banter

Page 3: Banter so far with GH and Zack, looks like a joke vote on Zack in 187.

Page 4: Switched from a vote on Zack to a vote on me. Disagreed with reinoe's post about logic and Zack being scum together. Explains he was voting me for roleplaying, which I admit, is not something I tend to do every game and is a good way to mask my true intentions. 287 clarified which part of the reinoe post he agreed with wrt Zack. Zack shades Csargo a bit for having contradictions in his post. Which I agreed with at the time.

Page 5: Standing out I can see he says he understands the post where I have both Zack and GH in my town. 333 reaction feels a little forced. So at the time, I actually had Csargo as scummy. My next highest suspect in fact, based on the above body of work.

352 is where I am seeing reasons to actually town read Csargo.

I'm not a fan of Zack's lackadaisical(not sure if this fits entirely, but I think it does) attitude tbh, which is why I voted him. There's a lot of posts, but I expected more from him even though it's early. It's D1, so I'm not sure if I'm just reading too much into it or not.

ATPG is just sowing confusion imo, being cryptic but posting like it has a deeper meaning, and I feel like that's more likely scum pizza than town. He might just be having fun Rping though, that's also a possibility.

Don't think GH deserves a townread, but I think he's been slightly town, but more null really.

Your actions are odd, not sure what to make of them. Could go either way.

Think WH's posts have been good, but I've been burned before and that's still fresh. I'm suspicious.

Like reinoe's posts so far, look good. Time will tell.

I've got nothing else.

The first bolded is a really unusual method of distancing from a scum buddy.

Usually they identify a weak post or two or give more general or vague reasons to suspect them that can be more easily reversed, in my experience. This is a generic tell and applies to most everyone, not Csargo specifically.

The vote based on the reasons given is specific, which is that Zack had a lot of posts but they felt lacking in productivity/content pretty much. Calling out a scum buddy and saying you have a lot of posts but they're not good posts and voting them is... rare.

I don't recall a lot of instances of seeing that. In fact I can't think of one that early in the game.

Upon Zack's flip, just remembering Csargo's game, his stock continued to rise from where it already was.

That's really good distancing if that's what it is. So as of this post the balance looks about even. Many posts and an overall strategy that can fit a scum csargo, but this specific post looks out of place in such a universe.

378 could be distancing between him and GH but it'd be weird distancing.

379 from Zack does look a bit more like distancing, but it's 50/50. And it's also strange that he posts this a few posts after 376, where he's actually pushing back against the idea that Csargo is scum for posting a pic, which GH mentioned he had done before.

This is elaborate distancing if it is. Usually you either defend or condemn a partner in such a short span of posts, not both.


-------------------------

Page 6: 426 reaction to Fredwood's post, all he got out of it was that Fredwood also suspected him and voted elsewhere.

If I know Csargo, and I can't claim to really know what's going on inside his head in most games, my suspicion here is that he's actually being ironic, and he doesn't actually care that he's getting suspicion. I feel like he probably thinks there's more utility in letting scums dogpile him than actually fighting back, so they'll look bad if and when he flips town. The best defense is no defense, kinda deal. I can't really alignment read this though, because he can certainly not care as scum and makes jokes there too.

Page 7: Slaan votes Csargo, he says "cool". Actually reacts to Fredwood giving a reason to suspect him. In 506 he thinks Zack has gotten better.

Page 8: Nothing

Page 9: 673, I don't think Csargo actually for real cracks under pressure, but he could be appealing to sympathy here.

You'd be right that I'm annoyed/not enjoying this game pizza. I'm busy with school/work, so I'm super tired all the time now. I'm not entirely sure what happened with the Zack thing initially, I didn't think I contradicted myself, but such is life. It spiraled after that, I'm just not having a good time.

Page 10:

1. GH
2. Csargo
3. Dp101
4. Pizza
5. Fredwood
6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
8. Zack
9. Cuthillius
10. Manasi
11. Slaan
12. Reinoe
13. Choxorn
14. Winston Hughes
15. Logic
16. Xiahou
17. Kagemusha

Any of the bolded people I'd consider suspicious. Probably throw WH in there for paranoia reasons as well, maybe Zack too for tinfoil reasons.

This post is not so good. And at the time I didn't like it. That said, Barto and Xiahou are still suspects, and he did mention Zack. But it's basically rand. So he's naming Logic as a suspect but also the people pushing Logic. Which is why it didn't make sense to me at the time.

It just a gut thing at this point, in regards to pizza, I think there's decent potential for pizza to be mafia. I can see why people are town reading him though, he's playing very similarly to XCOM. I don't think it's the same though, so I have reservations.

This is what Manasi does as scum and probably as town.

I can't read El Barto well.

Choxorn for low posts, can't get a read on him. Same for Xiahou.

I feel like logic is different from XCOM, but I need to iso that game and see.

I'd much rather eliminate people with less posts this early in the game tbh. I can get a much better read on the non-bolded people going forward, less so with the others.

Seems low hanging fruit. The bit about choxorn is like, choxorn should always be like that on day 1. Don't think that's a good reason to suspect him.

So far this game, besides the Chess RP, has been essentially a carbon copy of the XCOM game D1. It's just weird is all I'm saying, could just wait and see what Jowy/Logic flips. The RPing stuff bothered me as well, because it didn't seem all that insightful, just sort of in your face, far less good-humored than ATPG usually is idk. Just think his game feels off a bit to me.

I do like that he's saying I look identical to XCOM despite my roleplaying.

Still, it feels like there are two positions here or a contradictory one. If I look just like XCOM except for the roleplaying, then how am I weird or off?

Putting gut feelings into words is liable to run into examples of contradiction, but it does make me a little uneasy.

Page 11: "Tempted" to follow the wagon onto Manasi, to make it a viable alternative to Logic perhaps.

Page 12: Wagons El Barto with Winston.

This is as far as I've gotten.

El Barto could be scum, but Csargo's day one is not good up to this point, and you need time to decide if that's true.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I also have to actually iso him. Been putting it off because the game state .

[Askthepizzaguy]

I will say this

@Xiahou

@Cuthillius

And anyone who hasn't been really following the game state (not saying the above have not been, just, I can't tell how much you've been keeping up or read from your posts)

Since your posts are not clearing enough to keep you out of suspicion to many, and your activity is infrequent, if you have a power to claim, you should do it on the next day phase.

Otherwise the assumption is you're scum or vanilla townie and it can result in a hammer.

[Cuthillius]

I will say this

@Xiahou

@Cuthillius

And anyone who hasn't been really following the game state (not saying the above have not been, just, I can't tell how much you've been keeping up or read from your posts)

Since your posts are not clearing enough to keep you out of suspicion to many, and your activity is infrequent, if you have a power to claim, you should do it on the next day phase.

Otherwise the assumption is you're scum or vanilla townie and it can result in a hammer.

hi

noted

i have been following along for the most part, i just

lost any actual drive/interest in the game while it was in the PizzaFollowsPoEAndLaughsAtScumbags phase

and was ~dead yesterday

but am feeling a bit better today and there's actually a point in engaging with the thread now so I should be around more

all the same