Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Csargo

Page 1: NAI / banter

Page 2: NAI / banter

Page 3: Banter so far with GH and Zack, looks like a joke vote on Zack in 187.

Page 4: Switched from a vote on Zack to a vote on me. Disagreed with reinoe's post about logic and Zack being scum together. Explains he was voting me for roleplaying, which I admit, is not something I tend to do every game and is a good way to mask my true intentions. 287 clarified which part of the reinoe post he agreed with wrt Zack. Zack shades Csargo a bit for having contradictions in his post. Which I agreed with at the time.

Page 5: Standing out I can see he says he understands the post where I have both Zack and GH in my town. 333 reaction feels a little forced. So at the time, I actually had Csargo as scummy. My next highest suspect in fact, based on the above body of work.

352 is where I am seeing reasons to actually town read Csargo.

I'm not a fan of Zack's lackadaisical(not sure if this fits entirely, but I think it does) attitude tbh, which is why I voted him. There's a lot of posts, but I expected more from him even though it's early. It's D1, so I'm not sure if I'm just reading too much into it or not.

ATPG is just sowing confusion imo, being cryptic but posting like it has a deeper meaning, and I feel like that's more likely scum pizza than town. He might just be having fun Rping though, that's also a possibility.

Don't think GH deserves a townread, but I think he's been slightly town, but more null really.

Your actions are odd, not sure what to make of them. Could go either way.

Think WH's posts have been good, but I've been burned before and that's still fresh. I'm suspicious.

Like reinoe's posts so far, look good. Time will tell.

I've got nothing else.

The first bolded is a really unusual method of distancing from a scum buddy.

Usually they identify a weak post or two or give more general or vague reasons to suspect them that can be more easily reversed, in my experience. This is a generic tell and applies to most everyone, not Csargo specifically.

The vote based on the reasons given is specific, which is that Zack had a lot of posts but they felt lacking in productivity/content pretty much. Calling out a scum buddy and saying you have a lot of posts but they're not good posts and voting them is... rare.

I don't recall a lot of instances of seeing that. In fact I can't think of one that early in the game.

Upon Zack's flip, just remembering Csargo's game, his stock continued to rise from where it already was.

That's really good distancing if that's what it is. So as of this post the balance looks about even. Many posts and an overall strategy that can fit a scum csargo, but this specific post looks out of place in such a universe.

378 could be distancing between him and GH but it'd be weird distancing.

379 from Zack does look a bit more like distancing, but it's 50/50. And it's also strange that he posts this a few posts after 376, where he's actually pushing back against the idea that Csargo is scum for posting a pic, which GH mentioned he had done before.

This is elaborate distancing if it is. Usually you either defend or condemn a partner in such a short span of posts, not both.


-------------------------

Page 6: 426 reaction to Fredwood's post, all he got out of it was that Fredwood also suspected him and voted elsewhere.

If I know Csargo, and I can't claim to really know what's going on inside his head in most games, my suspicion here is that he's actually being ironic, and he doesn't actually care that he's getting suspicion. I feel like he probably thinks there's more utility in letting scums dogpile him than actually fighting back, so they'll look bad if and when he flips town. The best defense is no defense, kinda deal. I can't really alignment read this though, because he can certainly not care as scum and makes jokes there too.

Page 7: Slaan votes Csargo, he says "cool". Actually reacts to Fredwood giving a reason to suspect him. In 506 he thinks Zack has gotten better.

Page 8: Nothing

Page 9: 673, I don't think Csargo actually for real cracks under pressure, but he could be appealing to sympathy here.

You'd be right that I'm annoyed/not enjoying this game pizza. I'm busy with school/work, so I'm super tired all the time now. I'm not entirely sure what happened with the Zack thing initially, I didn't think I contradicted myself, but such is life. It spiraled after that, I'm just not having a good time.

Page 10:

1. GH
2. Csargo
3. Dp101
4. Pizza
5. Fredwood
6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
8. Zack
9. Cuthillius
10. Manasi
11. Slaan
12. Reinoe
13. Choxorn
14. Winston Hughes
15. Logic
16. Xiahou
17. Kagemusha

Any of the bolded people I'd consider suspicious. Probably throw WH in there for paranoia reasons as well, maybe Zack too for tinfoil reasons.

This post is not so good. And at the time I didn't like it. That said, Barto and Xiahou are still suspects, and he did mention Zack. But it's basically rand. So he's naming Logic as a suspect but also the people pushing Logic. Which is why it didn't make sense to me at the time.

It just a gut thing at this point, in regards to pizza, I think there's decent potential for pizza to be mafia. I can see why people are town reading him though, he's playing very similarly to XCOM. I don't think it's the same though, so I have reservations.

This is what Manasi does as scum and probably as town.

I can't read El Barto well.

Choxorn for low posts, can't get a read on him. Same for Xiahou.

I feel like logic is different from XCOM, but I need to iso that game and see.

I'd much rather eliminate people with less posts this early in the game tbh. I can get a much better read on the non-bolded people going forward, less so with the others.

Seems low hanging fruit. The bit about choxorn is like, choxorn should always be like that on day 1. Don't think that's a good reason to suspect him.

So far this game, besides the Chess RP, has been essentially a carbon copy of the XCOM game D1. It's just weird is all I'm saying, could just wait and see what Jowy/Logic flips. The RPing stuff bothered me as well, because it didn't seem all that insightful, just sort of in your face, far less good-humored than ATPG usually is idk. Just think his game feels off a bit to me.

I do like that he's saying I look identical to XCOM despite my roleplaying.

Still, it feels like there are two positions here or a contradictory one. If I look just like XCOM except for the roleplaying, then how am I weird or off?

Putting gut feelings into words is liable to run into examples of contradiction, but it does make me a little uneasy.

Page 11: "Tempted" to follow the wagon onto Manasi, to make it a viable alternative to Logic perhaps.

Page 12: Wagons El Barto with Winston.

This is as far as I've gotten.

El Barto could be scum, but Csargo's day one is not good up to this point, and you need time to decide if that's true.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I only got halfway through but I'd like to discuss it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can see it both ways. There are a few good posts and odd interactions with the dead scums, but also scummy stuff.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote:Logic

Also, this isn't what I asked for, but it'll do.

I'm not really concerned with where you put me in your POE, because if I'm lynched I've played the best town game I can under the circumstances. I mean I'm not just going to rollover and die, I'll definitely fight you on that front, but if you choose to lynch me after those two, then that's how it's going to go.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the interactions bit. I've always responded to accusations btw, just with varying degrees of seriousness regardless of alignment imo. I'm pretty sure you talked somewhere about that.

This could be the bus.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I mean that Zack/GH cfd is the mafia equivalent of shooting themselves in the foot if they're scum, it had a very small probability of being successful. Coupled with the fact they chose Dp101 as their target probably lowered their probability of success. Plus the amount of votes they would have had to gather to top Logic's total makes it an almost impossible feat. They're both definitely capable of defending themselves in the aftermath, but I don't think it's likely they're scum together, and even one being scum seems unlikely to me. Even if they were successful they would have bought Logic a night phase, don't think it's worth it for that.

Bingo.

This is much more condemning.

I'd lynch Csargo over this post for sure.

This is the narrative that pretty much HAD to be spoken by the final scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Barto voters, in your last few minutes of this round, compare what your feelings are on El Barto to the quoted post in 1985.

Csargo gotta go.

[Montmorency]

I can see it both ways. There are a few good posts and odd interactions with the dead scums, but also scummy stuff.

Something that should be noted, how do you interpret that Csargo was posting right around when GH made Choxorn a 3-person wagon and he just ignores it, eventually voting Logic. And that's how he ends the day.

Ruthless power wolfing if that's how he treats the wagon to save his partner, and he doesn't have the pro-activeness afterwards to demonstrate a desire to win as a solo power wolf.

It was probably a poor decision to bold you in that list tbh, since I would probably lump you in with Zack/WH at this point. My vote has just been a placeholder for a while now. Zack/WH/ATPG are me just being cautious about just lumping you all as town without due diligence on my part. It's still early and I think doing so would be a mistake. I did say at some point that the Logic flip would effect my view, which seems clear to me, but maybe I didn't make it so, but I really like holding contradictory views in my head, which has already been pointed out :). I honestly don't really town read anyone at this point, besides Kage, Monty, and DP101, I feel good about a lot of the unbolded people in my list, but I'm not really town reading them per se. As far as reading your slot for alignment, I'll just say that I'm being obstinate ~.

Just because we've come to the same conclusions on who is suspect at this point doesn't mean that you can't be scum or I can't be scum. It's just waiting for flips to see.

If you lay out your problems with me concisely ATPG I'll try to respond to them to the best of my current ability.

Vote:Logic

Also, this isn't what I asked for, but it'll do.

I'm not really concerned with where you put me in your POE, because if I'm lynched I've played the best town game I can under the circumstances. I mean I'm not just going to rollover and die, I'll definitely fight you on that front, but if you choose to lynch me after those two, then that's how it's going to go.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the interactions bit. I've always responded to accusations btw, just with varying degrees of seriousness regardless of alignment imo. I'm pretty sure you talked somewhere about that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll read yours if you read my last two posts with an open mind.

The power wolfing you are looking for has been found.

[Montmorency]

If Slaan was confident that the Choxorn wagon could have beat the Logic wagon, then Csargo is singlehandedly what kept Logic solidly ahead when he could have tied the wagons.

Why didn't he tie the wagons?

[Askthepizzaguy]

If Slaan was confident that the Choxorn wagon could have beat the Logic wagon, then Csargo is singlehandedly what kept Logic solidly ahead when he could have tied the wagons.

Why didn't he tie the wagons?

Because that looks scummy.

It's a 50/50 move.

This lynch is more like 60/40 to me. Csargo 60, Barto 40.

[Fredwood]

Bingo.

This is much more condemning.

I'd lynch Csargo over this post for sure.

This is the narrative that pretty much HAD to be spoken by the final scum.

Saying both isn't likely is odd, but I know Monty and myself both said, that we didn't think that they could be scum together. The timing and both of them were jumping on the grenade just didn't make sense for teammates to do. My guess is they both came to the decision to pounce on the same thing independently.

Ultimately when it comes to my view of GH, (Similar to where I'm at with SLaan) there was enough wtf is he doing to vote for him, but I still had doubts because I don't think I should be able to catch scum GH so easily. So from my perspective, I can see how Csargo makes that post.

[Slaan]

I'm not that confident about how the mafia approached that EoD... My original theory was wrong in the first place so I'm trying to make it sorta fit now but duno

[Montmorency]

Because that looks scummy.

It's a 50/50 move.

This lynch is more like 60/40 to me. Csargo 60, Barto 40.

For this to work Zack and GH have to decide that they themselves should abandon the game in order for Csargo to solo. Wouldn't it make more sense for Csargo to sacrifice himself for Zack or GH to solo?

All of the typical speculation aside, I have some rock-solid evidence that I can offer tomorrow.

[Slaan]

I mean the 4ppl I'd always kill this game is xiahou/cuth/barto/csargo, as long as we kill one of them today I'm fine with it... I saw the scummy stuff pizza pointed out as well but it's not so much that I feel like he is for sure the last mafia.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Saying both isn't likely is odd, but I know Monty and myself both said, that we didn't think that they could be scum together. The timing and both of them were jumping on the grenade just didn't make sense for teammates to do. My guess is they both came to the decision to pounce on the same thing independently.

Ultimately when it comes to my view of GH, (Similar to where I'm at with SLaan) there was enough wtf is he doing to vote for him, but I still had doubts because I don't think I should be able to catch scum GH so easily. So from my perspective, I can see how Csargo makes that post.

I believe the fourth scum absolutely has to push the narrative that one of GH or Zack are not scum for that EOD, and saying both might not be scum is the best. Also, since people aren't suspecting him hard after the Logic bus, he's the only wolf really capable of selling that narrative.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

El Barto (3): Montmorency, Slaan, Choxorn,

Csargo (2): Xiahou, Pizza,



Not voting (5): Fredwood, El Barto, Cuthillius, Dp101, Csargo

With 10 players there are 6 to hammer.


EOD4:

[Fredwood]

I mean the 4ppl I'd always kill this game is xiahou/cuth/barto/csargo, as long as we kill one of them today I'm fine with it... I saw the scummy stuff pizza pointed out as well but it's not so much that I feel like he is for sure the last mafia.

Neither Bart or Csargo's presence today inspires much confidence.

[Askthepizzaguy]

For this to work Zack and GH have to decide that they themselves should abandon the game in order for Csargo to solo. Wouldn't it make more sense for Csargo to sacrifice himself for Zack or GH to solo?

All of the typical speculation aside, I have some rock-solid evidence that I can offer tomorrow.

They pretty clearly did not think that both of them would go down for it.

They have a lot of faith in their own abilities and town's likelihood of chasing random cars.

[Slaan]

Saying both isn't likely is odd, but I know Monty and myself both said, that we didn't think that they could be scum together. The timing and both of them were jumping on the grenade just didn't make sense for teammates to do. My guess is they both came to the decision to pounce on the same thing independently.

Me too btw. I think it's the normal reaction to the way those two buddied each other (which kinda makes me suss everyone a bit who hasnt but considerings its mainly pizza that heroshotted Zack it's hard to argue ^^)

[Askthepizzaguy]

In any case, vote please. If you disagree vote against me.

[Fredwood]

I believe the fourth scum absolutely has to push the narrative that one of GH or Zack are not scum for that EOD, and saying both might not be scum is the best. Also, since people aren't suspecting him hard after the Logic bus, he's the only wolf really capable of selling that narrative.

Right but Monty and myself were both selling that. In fact I was doubting my suss of GH. I think it goes back to the first point you made in the iso. The you're not doing much in your posts suss is not something you throw at a teammate who has some deep wolf cred.

[Fredwood]

Vote Bart

[Fredwood]

Vote Bart

Vote: El_Barto

just in case.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Right but Monty and myself were both selling that. In fact I was doubting my suss of GH. I think it goes back to the first point you made in the iso. The you're not doing much in your posts suss is not something you throw at a teammate who has some deep wolf cred.

Yeah. That was the thing that was holding me back until the narrative post and the Logic bus.

I can see it both ways.

[Sooh]

That's a lynch!

El Barto (4): Montmorency, Slaan, Choxorn, Fredwood,

Csargo (2): Xiahou, Pizza,



Not voting (4): El Barto, Cuthillius, Dp101, Csargo

With 10 players there are 6 to hammer.

[Sooh]

Zzzzzz....

Wait... what? Are we done for today?

Then who?

Oh... Ok, here we go:

El Bartolomeo has left the tournament!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

He was Garry Kasparov.



You were born in the Soviet Union, but are currently reciding in Croatia. For about 20 years you were the world's number one chess player, until one little brat from Norway came and kicked you down off your throne. That's ok though, you had already retired when that happened. Your current rating is 2812.

You are a Vanilla Town.

N4 ends in:

[Slaan]

After the delay I really thought we got it...

[Fredwood]

After the delay I really thought we got it...

Yeah I was kind of anxiously awaiting the results and kept f5ing.

Otherwise sigh.

[Slaan]

So a question before I start blindly speculating again... should we discuss what Chox should possible do now with his night actions/does anyone know what he possibly could do? Does that make sense to coordinate it? I mean mafia would see it but I think there are potential options where it doesnt matter if mafia knows or not... like maybe chox can gift a bomb to someone to use next night (not saying who he should give it to obviously)... that would be always +EV I think? Not sure if thats a viable option though... thoughts?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Right but Monty and myself were both selling that. In fact I was doubting my suss of GH. I think it goes back to the first point you made in the iso. The you're not doing much in your posts suss is not something you throw at a teammate who has some deep wolf cred.

Scum Freddo really has no reason to doubt any Csargo is scum theory. Csargo has to be in his lynch pile.

Just reaffirms my stance on him.

Anyway, if we have a doc they need to be on Choxorn. I've already stated who we shouldn't ever lynch and tried to case the remainders as much as I possibly can, given Xiahou and Cuth's posting patterns.

No lynches on me, freddo, dp101, choxorn. If we can't find it in the remaining then we deserve to lose.