Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Slaan]

If you need to counterclaim a vig, or to claim you had a one shot vig and tried to vig someone, is leaving something visible in the thread. Otherwise when you claim, you don't have anything visible in your posts all game long to support it. Much like when scums claim cop in cop games, their posts have to match their eventual claim in a believable way. One can't for example say that X is scummy and then later claim that they cop checked them and found them to be innocent. The story doesn't match.

If you ever claim vig, for counterclaim or simply claiming-to-cause-mislynch purposes, having something that matches the story is the only way it is bought.

The play is only good for one lynch, just like counterclaiming a cop. Once a flip happens, the jig is up.

A vig is no different in that regard. It has the exact same claim utility. How often do you play with vigs? You've never seen someone fake claim vig? You even said you were faking crumbing a vig here, so obviously you've seen people fake vig claims before.

Acting surprised that someone would use it as a strategy as an actual vig, is not just iffy, it's unbelievable.

This crumbing to make it believable is never done this openly though in my experience? Not to mention I still don't know why I would put myself out there as mafia... maybe it's because I know my own mafia playstyle rather well I'm 100% certain that such a strategy is way outside my scumrange... there is hardly any benefit from it I can see... not to mention in a closed setting where I wouldnt even know if there was a town vig? It just makes no sense to me no matter how I twist and turn it...

Lets go back to what you wrote in black and white.



You were saying, by context, either you believed that town didn't have a vig, or they would have vigged choxorn.

What's missing then is the leap between that concept, and the idea that the mafia had a vigilante shot against Winston Hughes and a mafia team kill against Askthepizzaguy on the same night, in the exact same post, in the next sentence.

Let's pretend both kills succeeded and were visible, which is also a leap since there was only one kill attempt that we know of.

Even so, why would you not immediately assume one of the kills was a really misguided town vigilante who one of Winston or Pizza had been accusing, or they had put us down as scum and decided to yolo it.

Why is that not the more logical theory than immediately leaping to, town has no vigilante but the mafia has two kills?

Which towny would've vigged either you or Winston at this point? And why would I make this post int he first place? I mean I might get it if mafia made a post shortly after the night ended in confusion of why there was only one kill (but c'mon, with a strongman around a towndoc is obvious)... the way you go after this post is what made me angry yesterday because it implies that I play mafia very badly to even make such a post... which again gains 0 benefits. It's (obviously now...) not a good townpost either but when I play as town I don't care all that much how I look and just get my thoughts out there. That's what you are seeing here.

At no point was I ever suggesting you were really a town vigilante here. You hard claimed not being one, I asked you directly.

Why you'd vig him is if he's not on your team.

Arent you suggesting I'm the mafia vig that targeted Winston or you N1? If you don't think so then you going after my speculative posts makes even less sense because why as mafia would I even wonder if there were night kills against both you and Winston? And when I NK someone there goes a little more thought into it then just 'he isnt on my team'.

Aside from the stuff about what you'd have been doing as a town vig, which I am not saying you were doing.

I don't know what could have happened on night two. Full night vig would have to hit doctor protection on N1 and N2 both times.

It's plausible that once a vig is the solo scum they cannot keep a second kill, but I don't know about that for sure. I've seen them be able to have team kills before in mashes, just don't know if such mechanics would apply to a small game. Doubtful even.

A one extra shot vig or an odd night vig are the only other plausible explanations for the scum team. You wouldn't need to claim many shots, and it's even possible for there to be multiple vigs in a game and not be scum if they have limitations (i.e. one shot from an inventor, one sometimes shot but not every night shot from a different role). You also know in this setup there's a strongman if you're scum, therefore missing kills can be explained by doctor protections as I said.

With the idea of limited shots in play and plausible reasons why they'd go missing, the claim is much easier to make for a scumbag. Then you could claim a shot on someone and say it did not cause a death and suspect them for it, and later, you can explain the missing night of a kill, and then visibly kill on the night thereafter to prove you have the power, and it isn't immediately outing if it's odd night. Or, you could completely claim to be a one-shot vig even if you had an odd night. The point is, you have options.

Putting shots into both Winston and Pizza on night 1 guarantees one of us dies, somewhat checks if we're bulletproof, or confirms we're being doctor protected. There was never going to be a more useful time to shoot twice, even if you only had a single shot to play with.

I don't follow... so you agree that I'm no full vig I think? Because that would mean that I literally ran into a doc protection three times. Odd night vig? Would still not explain last night where I was the one being protected. So one shot vig... then again I don't understand why I'd ever use it N1. The game was wide open, if Winston died or not who cares at this point. Keep the vig for a potential mylo or smth or suprise town towards the end with a vig that makes them have one less lynch. It's probably WIFOM (not sure if I use this term correctly...) to speculate on this but from my perspective it never makes sense.

I don't call people morons for wrong guesses and I don't appreciate being called one.

Again apologies... shouldnt have used the 'm' word... (though I only called the case as such, not you. You made fantastic cases against the wolves that flipped so far... still shouldnt have used the word, I'm truely sorry)

You told me all game long that this play from you was part of your own scum meta. You'll have to forgive me at some point for believing it, when you posted about choosing people who would make a good final 5 lynchee, anticipating a lot of failure between now and then, and claiming a never-seen mafia vig in addition to a mafia team kill, while also admitting to crumbing that you might have been a vig earlier this round before you confirmed you were not one.

When did I ever claim that this is part of my scum meta? My scum meta is being towny as much as I can to be cleared and then slowly ride it out until lylo. I'd never see a reason to fake claim anything in copless games as I don't see the benefit... even as a counter claim that leaves me with a 50/50 who ppl believe in and as you've said previously: it's only good for one lynch. Why take this risk, just get townread and win this way. Maybe that's why I'm so agitated on this issue... because its never something I'd ever do as scum... even the crumbing itself, it puts a small spotlight on myself which is not something a mafia wants imo... not to mention that it would make the lategame difficult because the entire 'why are you still alive' line for which I usually get mislynched is even more pronounced if you essentially fake claimed a PR and make it to late.

The point about thinking ahead is something I guess you could scumread me for, not that it's correct but w/e. I don't see whats wrong with planning things out, if we win before we get to the later stage: cool. If we don't: we have a plan. If thats scummy, cool... if you lynch me for that similiar to the Fred thing above idc.

If I am not allowed to have legitimate suspicion on you after that, I shouldn't be playing this game. Frankly none of us should be.

Yes you can have suspicion. It's how you then used it to make such a specific case where (in my opinion at least) nothing really fits or makes sense for me to do as mafia and then parade it around made me see red... again I'm sorry for how I acted and that's highly unusual for me... guess I learned today to stay away from mafia games when having barely 3 hours of sleep :(.

That's all I have to say on that. I prefer these games stay civil, joking, the interplay between us meant to elicit entertaining reactions, not hurt feelings. If I've offended you by accusing you wrongly then it was not my intention.

I don't give a single fig about these games. I care about them to an extent as a hobby I enjoy a LOT, but if it results in people getting personally offended or upset in real life, it's not a game to me anymore.

After the game, my intention is that Slaan and Askthepizzaguy can still like each other. If I've failed on that then the game doesn't matter to me.

Of course we cann still like each other... again sorry for going overboard