Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[reinoe]

Sup Jerks. So I read all this thread...lol@me I even viewed 7 minutes of the two minute videos posted.

The blowback confused, suss of Pizza for doing what he's doing feels almost concerted and deliberately obtuse to get the early discredit on him. The style is atypical, but I don't feel the content is atypical. (The one game I've played). Interesting how quickly the stance was backed off. I do have an issue with his town read of Rein, but will get into that later.

I like Zack, I also think he's villa, with a conditional hedge so I can move back my knight to starting position later. I've only played with town Zack, and he seems more solvey early in this game then those others. I hesitate to go full town core on him, but I'm not going to vote off top poster day 1.



Reinoe


This post isn't accurate, if anything Zack is attacking or picking at people who are town reading him. He attacked both Pizza and GH's town read of him. If you want to get into how attacking your town reads is easy town equity, Well too late, Zack already pointed that out for easy town equity. Rein's post at best means he's not actually reading Zack's posts.


Csargo's agreement with Rein doesn't feel right either, he agrees with the inaccurate part of his post but not the rest of it?

It feels like a stretch to townread CS for his "I'm bad at eveyrthing" line after getting nuked by Zack in an argument. DP seems especially limpber

Can I say the DP/Rein interaction feels fake AF, from either one or both sides I'm not sure which. Read in spoiler if you're interested, otherwise Wall o' Text.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rein drops for names in his hot take read post. Has associative reads based on Logic as if Logic has already flipped, but not pushing the actual logic flip. (I think Logic is scum, and I think Zack is scum for not talking to Logic, therefore I shall vote Zack...the F?) Meanwhile mentions Pizza and GH as town with no reasoning.

DP begs for him to drop a read on himself, and Rein has this bajillion word post he drops on DP about lazy and faking confusion...so you had that many thoughts on DP but didn't bring it up in your first post? During all this time he's ignoring Zack's question about his town reads and Monty's question about Winston. As if your town reads aren't just important for viewing your progression as town reads.

Vote: Reinoe

You're right. My town reads are not as important to me as my scumreads. And yes, I'm deliberately not answering Zack's question about said townreads. Although I disagree with what you're saying. DP seems genuinely frustrated in a "caught for the wrong reasons" kind of way and I'm sincere about getting tired of him constantly talking about being confused.

Although I didn't call logic sum for not talking to Zack. I didn't give a reason for why logic is scum (it's for 215 which seems so out of place). I said they're talking to each other. My reasons for thinking logic is suspicious is entirely separate.

[Fredwood]

You're right. My town reads are not as important to me as my scumreads. And yes, I'm deliberately not answering Zack's question about said townreads. Although I disagree with what you're saying. DP seems genuinely frustrated in a "caught for the wrong reasons" kind of way and I'm sincere about getting tired of him constantly talking about being confused.

Although I didn't call logic sum for not talking to Zack. I didn't give a reason for why logic is scum (it's for 215 which seems so out of place). I said they're talking to each other. My reasons for thinking logic is suspicious is entirely separate.

I don't care about your suss on Logic aside from the fact that you're not pushing him. My issue is you pushing Zack over logic because "Zack" didn't talk to logic. You're saying logic is scum, therefore Zack is scum because he's avoiding logic. Well get logic lynched first then go after Zack.

[reinoe]

I don't care about your suss on Logic aside from the fact that you're not pushing him. My issue is you pushing Zack over logic because "Zack" didn't talk to logic. You're saying logic is scum, therefore Zack is scum because he's avoiding logic. Well get logic lynched first then go after Zack.

No, I'm not saying logic is scum therefore zack is scum.

1. Logic is scum independently of Zack.

2. Zack has talked to everything that moves except logic. Therefore they're either masons/scum/neighbors. I stated this once already. Either way they're talking to each other OOT and thus have no reason to talk in thread.

3. Zack is scummy independent of Zack.

They are not necessarily scum together but somehow they are talking to each other.

[Fredwood]

No, I'm not saying logic is scum therefore zack is scum.

1. Logic is scum independently of Zack.

2. Zack has talked to everything that moves except logic. Therefore they're either masons/scum/neighbors. I stated this once already. Either way they're talking to each other OOT and thus have no reason to talk in thread.

3. Zack is scummy independent of Zack.

They are not necessarily scum together but somehow they are talking to each other.

[Kagemusha]

Btw what is this ISO people keep rambling about? You people have dwelved so deep in this stuff that i need a mafia dictionary to understand you peeps.

[Slaan]

Btw what is this ISO people keep rambling about? You people have dwelved so deep in this stuff that i need a mafia dictionary to understand you peeps.

Isolating ppl, only looking it their posts in thread... GH made a 'how to' do it here in this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...g-from-offsite

[Kagemusha]

Isolating ppl, only looking it their posts in thread... GH made a 'how to' do it here in this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...g-from-offsite

Bad GH! Tracking tools for mafia games. Whats next?Language analyzer with database from previous games with percentages of different words used in different roles... I better shut up, before Monty creates one.

[Logic]

Do not worry. I run a company for a living, not a graphic designer per se. Hopefully you turn out to be at least as good mafia player as i am a forum skin maker. Welcome to the Org.

Cant get any scummyness out of you but i have to wonder how come Logic does not want to talk about why he thinks you are not scum. Maybe he doesnt like to to become too involved in the thread?

I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.

Please see the above quoted post.

Btw what is this ISO people keep rambling about? You people have dwelved so deep in this stuff that i need a mafia dictionary to understand you peeps.

Isolated posts of a single poster.

I think your hat looks dumb

Well, I think your avatar looks smug.

[Zack]

No, I'm not saying logic is scum therefore zack is scum.

1. Logic is scum independently of Zack.

2. Zack has talked to everything that moves except logic. Therefore they're either masons/scum/neighbors. I stated this once already. Either way they're talking to each other OOT and thus have no reason to talk in thread.

3. Zack is scummy independent of Zack.

They are not necessarily scum together but somehow they are talking to each other.

This has no basis in reality. I have talked to Logic, try re-reading the thread.

[Slaan]

Alright and I'm done catching up, yay. Overall impressions so far:

1. GH: Seems ok solvey but I know he can fake that as scum so he's just null in my book. Imo he has to be judged by his success in game and not by how towny he seems from posts alone.
2. Csargo: Didnt really like most of what he wrote, an early weird read that he immediatly backpaddled on.. wouldnt mind a lynch here today
3. dp101: Very towny from tone and AtE. From the comments I saw about him here he doesnt seem to be considered as the greatest player so him faking his frustration seems very unlikely
4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.
5. Fredwood: Seems alright so far, not many posts but focused on solving the game.
6. El Barto: no poster
7. Montmorency: ... I'd call him toneally scummish atm.. there were alot of posts that feel off a bit. #119 akwardly trying to insert himself in our nonsense videogame discussion, his push on the 'reaction test' thingy (which I don't understand but I also don't care much), #250 is weird...
8. Zack: Actually don't have anything AI on him despite his many posts. The more memorable stuff was his reactions to being townread but thats just NAI in my book (since I sometimes do the same as both town and scum)
9. Cuthillius: weak pop in
10. Manasi: Manasi seemingly being solvey gives me the creeps. Also weird point made on my, how was I uncomfortable? Cautions sure being mostly w/ new folk but I didnt feel uncomfortable. Maybe a bit drunk but that's neither here nor there
11. Slaan: lock goat
12. Reinoe: The more I think about the more null she is. I don't think it very likely that her antagonizing attitude is wolfy but then again I don't see why not... given that its an alt an all. Maybe someone wants to try out a new strategy.
13. Choxorn: Who?
14. Winston Hughes: Almost same as Zack though I don't recall anything he said in regards to the game.
15. Logic: Didnt start solving really so far, a slight post on Kagemusha, a townread on me (which makes him scum ;))... I expect more!
16. Xiahou: ...
17. Kagemusha: Well his vote on me and then complaining that noone commented on it felt off... curious where he goes from here.

Where this leaves me:
dp101
Fred
GH, Zack, Winston
Csargo, Montmorency


... which isnt much now looking at it. The others are all basically null and I didnt want to put them all in there....

Yap :)

[Slaan]

Ok I put Zack townish for now just for wall posting right after I wallposted!

[Zack]

Ok I put Zack townish for now just for wall posting right after I wallposted!

Wallposting is not aligntment-indicative in itself

[Slaan]

Wallposting is not aligntment-indicative in itself

Very true, just thought it funny how there are tons of small posts over those 16 sites and then suddently bam, two wallposts in a row.

I also read your post just now and I agree with most of what you said so yea, I update your fun upgrade to town to a real townish read :)

[Zack]

I mean, I believe you gh

but I don't think you'd like about that regardless of your alignment

I guess it's just more about setting my expectations in this game for you. I got burned pretty hard in Pokemon, and outside of that I seem to always find something vaguely wolfy about you (e.g. the alias turbo where we called each other wolves until figuring it out at the very, very end).

I want to get better at reading you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alright and I'm done catching up, yay. Overall impressions so far:

1. GH: Seems ok solvey but I know he can fake that as scum so he's just null in my book. Imo he has to be judged by his success in game and not by how towny he seems from posts alone.

+1, maybe +2. Computer says it's not a draw. Need more time to fully analyze probably but seems okay on a first glance.

2. Csargo: Didnt really like most of what he wrote, an early weird read that he immediatly backpaddled on.. wouldnt mind a lynch here today

BAM! Solid. You agree.

3. dp101: Very towny from tone and AtE. From the comments I saw about him here he doesnt seem to be considered as the greatest player so him faking his frustration seems very unlikely

Correct, although I feel like he's going to be a great player. He's just young, that's all. Needs more experience being lied to and fooled so he doesn't have his board upside down so often.

4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.

On a really good day, I still couldn't beat Magnus. I'm more likely to do this, though.

Waste of a vig, I'm always getting murdered or put in check by move 3.

5. Fredwood: Seems alright so far, not many posts but focused on solving the game.

Looks good.

6. El Barto: no poster

Slow start, anxious to see his middlegame, but very prepared to wait.

7. Montmorency: ... I'd call him toneally scummish atm.. there were alot of posts that feel off a bit. #119 akwardly trying to insert himself in our nonsense videogame discussion, his push on the 'reaction test' thingy (which I don't understand but I also don't care much), #250 is weird...

Seems like he's playing with the white pieces, but I haven't seen which board everyone is playing on yet or who their opponents are.

8. Zack: Actually don't have anything AI on him despite his many posts. The more memorable stuff was his reactions to being townread but thats just NAI in my book (since I sometimes do the same as both town and scum)

Nah, solid. Zack at plus 7 maybe. Clear differences between this and his scum game, which he doesn't usually demonstrate.

9. Cuthillius: weak pop in

Should be fine.

10. Manasi: Manasi seemingly being solvey gives me the creeps. Also weird point made on my, how was I uncomfortable? Cautions sure being mostly w/ new folk but I didnt feel uncomfortable. Maybe a bit drunk but that's neither here nor there

Play seems calculated, but that's not the Manasi I'm familiar with.

11. Slaan: lock goat

Maybe.

12. Reinoe: The more I think about the more null she is. I don't think it very likely that her antagonizing attitude is wolfy but then again I don't see why not... given that its an alt an all. Maybe someone wants to try out a new strategy.

Not null, solid. Ignore who this is, distracting.

13. Choxorn: Who?

Possibly good. Needs to check Csargo and Logic back to back. Then pretty good.

14. Winston Hughes: Almost same as Zack though I don't recall anything he said in regards to the game.

Endgame threat or strong checkmating piece. Needs to be developed.

15. Logic: Didnt start solving really so far, a slight post on Kagemusha, a townread on me (which makes him scum ;))... I expect more!

Expect him to be checkmated.

16. Xiahou: ...

Xiahou might even know who I'm roleplaying as, if he likes looking at chess stuff online. I could also probably do a good agadamator or suren or matojelic, it just so happens I know exactly who this guy I randed is and he's fucking amazing. Best rand ever. Solid! BAM! Haven't enjoyed myself more since randing Bowser.

Anxious to see Xiahou this game. My guess is this is going to be a very enthusiastic game for him and I'm inclined to put on a good show for him regardless of his alignment. He doesn't play that often, so I'm hoping he gets all these jokes.

17. Kagemusha: Well his vote on me and then complaining that noone commented on it felt off... curious where he goes from here.

Normal playing style for Kagemusha. Solid!

[Zack]

don't really understand how logic has drawn so much heat

far as I can tell, he is being standard logic, seems like an easy mislynch waiting to happen

[Zack]

don't really understand how logic has drawn so much heat

far as I can tell, he is being standard logic, seems like an easy mislynch waiting to happen

come to think of it, applies to csargo too

pizza going after the lowest hanging fruit he can find

[Askthepizzaguy]

come to think of it, applies to csargo too

pizza going after the lowest hanging fruit he can find

INCORRECT!

Pizza 100 percent solid. Playing with the white pieces. Zack is misplaced on the wrong side of the board.

[Askthepizzaguy]

don't really understand how logic has drawn so much heat

far as I can tell, he is being standard logic, seems like an easy mislynch waiting to happen

Intent is all wrong, and his aggression is all of the passive kind. He's also avoiding when he would normally confront or address.

Very big blunder in his opening. Not a mislynch at all.

[Zack]

Intent is all wrong, and his aggression is all of the passive kind. He's also avoiding when he would normally confront or address.

Very big blunder in his opening. Not a mislynch at all.

what blunder in his opening

he talked about video games

I think your odds of being right are exactly 25%

[Manasi]

This thread has gotten really difficult to read.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

[Askthepizzaguy]

4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.

This looks more like directing the vig than a claim or crumb, but it could be a crumb.

Oh yea I'm not saying that barto is playing well or anything and was I a vig I'd maybe just vig this night... but you had a real read on Zack iirc and change it to someone that just didnt give a crap so far? I mean it's not wolfy per se... just not something I'd do ^^

Also looks like directing the vig to Barto, but now that it's repeated it feels crumb-y.

Much later, and referring to Zack:

He's deep wolfing extremely well right now, more than he's towning, imo. If I had a vig shot I'd shoot him tonight since he's never gonna be lynched because only me and Monty can even see it.

I'm not moving and I cannot just sit here for the next 45 minutes (now 30), I'm too deeply invested in this lynch. If the flip is what I think it is, I need all of night phase to really give it my best and final analysis before end of night, for obvious reasons, and to make sure any shot I may or may not have lands correctly. (snip)

After those two posts, Slaan goes:

I'm not going to comment on pizzas last post >_<

I'm also really wondering which roles there will be in this game in the end. Doc is clear on our side... but I imagine a vig would've vigged Chox or someone last night. Maybe Winston was vigged from mafia and their NK on pizza failed? What other roles could there be in a game such as this? (my homeboard only uses the same boring roles over and over and they don't seem likely)... don't speculate on this, don't think it helps town... just things I wonder.

Strange post. Why assume mafia have a NK and a vig, especially if you've been hinting you are a vig?

...

Are you an odd night vigilante, Slaan?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Let me check. He basically hinted that he would have shot choxorn on night 1.

Even if dp101 didn't protect me, my guess is the full doctor would have unless they also changed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why would choxorn be protected on night one though. That doesn't make any sense.

Chox shouldn't be the n1 doc target. And the first inventor gift would have been the gun, delivered too late to affect N1.

Unless choxorn is a bulletproof, the only thing that makes sense is that Slaan is hinting that he shot choxorn, when he wasn't protected, and was actually shooting elsewhere.

Which you don't lie about if you're town.

[Slaan]

Why would choxorn be protected on night one though. That doesn't make any sense.

Chox shouldn't be the n1 doc target. And the first inventor gift would have been the gun, delivered too late to affect N1.

Unless choxorn is a bulletproof, the only thing that makes sense is that Slaan is hinting that he shot choxorn, when he wasn't protected, and was actually shooting elsewhere.

Which you don't lie about if you're town.

What? I just faked the entire thing, I never had any shots

[Slaan]

*checks reddit* *checks back here* oh look more questions :D

So why is Chox in your POE? His spew case is just as valid as Barts, in my mind it's better then Bart's. It isn't because he's acting scummier, the entirety of peoples read on Chox is because of what people have said or done to him this game.

Havent gotten to Chox yet and went on him off my memory. I recall his push unlikely to succeed and thus being a good bus target after failing to save Logic for GH/Zack. I also think his posts were scummy on top of that, so that might cloud my judgement... I won't comment on that further till I have 100% reread this thread.

This looks more like directing the vig than a claim or crumb, but it could be a crumb.

Also looks like directing the vig to Barto, but now that it's repeated it feels crumb-y.

Much later, and referring to Zack:

After those two posts, Slaan goes:

Strange post. Why assume mafia have a NK and a vig, especially if you've been hinting you are a vig?

...

Are you an odd night vigilante, Slaan?

I'm not anything but VT my friend. And yes ofc I was keeping the facade of my vig claim alive and I actually thought you were the vig and kinda annoyed with the game or w/e to make those open claims... so that was my natural reaction. It didnt occur to me that you could be fake claiming as well as... well that is rather wonky from my already fake claimed perspective... so I wanted to - as low key as possible - insert that I made a similar claim earlier.

Later on I just let me thoughts flow without much strategy behind them, the vig claming wasnt really something I actively pursued, just mentioned it when it seemed fitting and then did my own thing.. I don't think I had it on my mind when I made this last post you quoted. This post came iirc from my believe that you are the vig so I figured if you are a vig and we have a doc (strongman indicates as much) then mafia also most likely has a vig so this comment was born. I'm still not really familiar with the roles you guys use as my homeforum has a certain set im meta with fixed roles that just get play all the time (one time doc that gets told the NK each night, 2x oneshot vig, cop) so I felt/feel like in dark waters when it comes to closed games such as this....

I realised how stupid this line of inquiry was when I made the post, see the last sentence... but as town I always figure to just say what I think so ppl can follow my process better and it should help them read me town... I got nothing to hide and all that. If this gets me mislynched here I might have to reconsider this policy ^^

Now I'm really off though, bb :)

[Montmorency]

Forgot to include Reinoe in blue.

And Kage.

3) Why the fuck would I ever vig Winston of all ppl in N1? I didnt have a read on him at

all at this point, I would've killed off one of my townreads so I could develop Winston

however I saw fit. Why kill of a null from my pile instead of Kage of dp? Makes no sense
4) What the fucking fuck did I do other than that? So I'm a vig... ok. Not a regular vig,

no additional kills N2 or N3. Odd night vig? But then I'd have to have vigged myself last

night... that doesnt quite seem likely. One shot vig? Then why _THE FUCK_ would I vig in

N1? I was in zero danger, I was part of the town core. Keep it holstered, play the game

quietly etc etc... you know, what I'd have done if I was actual part of mafia. Why waste it

N1 on Winston?

This entire case is Pizza getting unsecure because Manasi didnt work out, getting called

out for it and now and needing to find someone he misread previously to push today to

cement his hero image... which will only take a deeper dive after he mislynched me over

this bullshit case.

To be fair, at that point you weren't solo yet and Zack/GH killing Winston is pretty

plausible from their meta and IIRC they were backed into town-reading him by the end of D1

or before.

It has had its ups though, Monty is now secured in my town pile. He stood up for me

early and asked the correct questions, as mafia he could've just been happy pizza threw out

one of his cores... (though his vote on me in the end doesnt look too good.. why make that

if he wants to reconsider.......... >_>)

It makes it harder for Pizza to back down on a whim, it encourages you to confront the

issue (though I'm not sure how the logic can be challenged internally or what would change

Pizza's mind),and establishes the wagon for others' reactions to be measured.

Also, you had Chox below GH for that upcoming day 2, which falls

in line with the concerted attempt that Zack and GH had to push Chox day 2. Your post

about your GH/Chox theory would further back this up

At the time I contested this theory.

1st because a Logic bus doesn't help GH because he can use the overtly contrarian stance to

prop up WIFOM.

2nd because that wasn't a move designed to save Chox. Chox was in no danger of being

lynched, in fact the only ones really pushing him were Zack and GH, so it's clouding the

game state implying there was two actual wagons. It also further increased the chances of

the Chox lynch Day 2 so it did nothing to distract away from a scum teammate. You were

playing the role of the "logical townie" to try and see if the Chox and GH are scum theory

works but never was able to fully pursue it because distancing.

It's also interesting to not the places of GH and Chox on your post here. This seems to

indicate you want to Lynch GH next phase but are willing to switch to Chox, but the post

you make later is one that indicates Chox is your number one suspect in a tier by himself.

Oh crap, I quoted that earlier today but I read it as "always lynch [GH] over Chox

tomorrow"; it's the opposite. It is totally consistent with an intent, at least during N1,

to deflect from GH.

The best counter then is, why would Slaan's partners drop the ball on him? Instant

demoralization? I suppose Pizza would say the putative failed Mafia vig would do that to

them, but would they really have expected Pizza to be unprotected with that arrangement of

PRs? To not even try and leave Slaan hanging?

Re: Choxorn wagon D1, given the late reveal I assume it was an attempt to latch onto a

(nother) dark-horse, low-post wagon and hope it gained traction. With 5 votes at one point

it did present a challenge, or at least the only plausible alternative to, the Logic wagon.

This could be spew for Barto, but on the other hand as I said they didn't try for very hard

or very long to push Barto.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Are you typing these up in Word or Wordpad, and getting double spaced?

The formatting of that post is strange.

Posting via phone maybe.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok. I get it.

The site was wonky for me earlier today as well.

[Slaan]

Also: Can someone explain to me the difference between 'bussing' and 'distancing'? I just assumed it's the same thing... you know, going after a buddy. I bussing only with intention to actually kill said partner and distancing is not or is there another aspect to it?

Anyway, now really, for the third and final time /out

Slaan has left the building \o/