Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Winston Hughes]

That last explanation would leave space for reinoe/Dp being w/w.

Not very likely, but I can just about imagine it being cooked up in scum chat.

[reinoe]

Hot Takes:

Dp101's posts are good

Csargo's are scummy

Zack, Pizza, Winston, and Monty all being themselves, more or less

More than a few people have ssaid DP's posts are good/townie. Why though? I'm not ruling out that he has a style I just don't like so enlighten me if you could.

[Winston Hughes]

x-post with Slaan giving the most likely interpretation.

[Winston Hughes]

More than a few people have ssaid DP's posts are good/townie. Why though? I'm not ruling out that he has a style I just don't like so enlighten me if you could.

chox can be extremely pure as scum, so I certainly wouldn't jump to call him town by any kind of tonal read.

[Slaan]

I feel like Slaan is less comfortable than he should be (given that he's played with a lot of people in this game), so chances he randed wolf in his first org game pretty high.

Care you elaborate? Why do you think I wasnt comfortable?

[Winston Hughes]

Me fail at reading.

Dp getting townread for seeming awkward afaik, because he usually does as town, and generally doesn't as scum.

[Logic]

And where does the thought of Slaan not being a wolf stems from? Do you know him from other games/forums or what are you basing on that assumption?

I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.

Tempting, but the problem with lynching pizza D1 is that it's usually only possible when he's town.

Winston, this... looks odd. It sounds to me like a willingness to lynch pizza, but an admission that you know he's town.

[Winston Hughes]

reinoe seems unreasonable aggressive and obstinate which I hardly see from scum that mostly just want to blend in.

Very much depends on the player. For example, Zack and pizza both tend to be a little more aggressive and obstinate as scum (by default; situational need is the main determinant).

[Winston Hughes]

Winston, this... looks odd. It sounds to me like a willingness to lynch pizza, but an admission that you know he's town.

Just experience talking. As much as I want to keep pizza under pressure, I'm leery of actually lynching him because, historically, it's been a very bad move.

[reinoe]

Sup Jerks. So I read all this thread...lol@me I even viewed 7 minutes of the two minute videos posted.

The blowback confused, suss of Pizza for doing what he's doing feels almost concerted and deliberately obtuse to get the early discredit on him. The style is atypical, but I don't feel the content is atypical. (The one game I've played). Interesting how quickly the stance was backed off. I do have an issue with his town read of Rein, but will get into that later.

I like Zack, I also think he's villa, with a conditional hedge so I can move back my knight to starting position later. I've only played with town Zack, and he seems more solvey early in this game then those others. I hesitate to go full town core on him, but I'm not going to vote off top poster day 1.



Reinoe


This post isn't accurate, if anything Zack is attacking or picking at people who are town reading him. He attacked both Pizza and GH's town read of him. If you want to get into how attacking your town reads is easy town equity, Well too late, Zack already pointed that out for easy town equity. Rein's post at best means he's not actually reading Zack's posts.


Csargo's agreement with Rein doesn't feel right either, he agrees with the inaccurate part of his post but not the rest of it?

It feels like a stretch to townread CS for his "I'm bad at eveyrthing" line after getting nuked by Zack in an argument. DP seems especially limpber

Can I say the DP/Rein interaction feels fake AF, from either one or both sides I'm not sure which. Read in spoiler if you're interested, otherwise Wall o' Text.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rein drops for names in his hot take read post. Has associative reads based on Logic as if Logic has already flipped, but not pushing the actual logic flip. (I think Logic is scum, and I think Zack is scum for not talking to Logic, therefore I shall vote Zack...the F?) Meanwhile mentions Pizza and GH as town with no reasoning.

DP begs for him to drop a read on himself, and Rein has this bajillion word post he drops on DP about lazy and faking confusion...so you had that many thoughts on DP but didn't bring it up in your first post? During all this time he's ignoring Zack's question about his town reads and Monty's question about Winston. As if your town reads aren't just important for viewing your progression as town reads.

Vote: Reinoe

You're right. My town reads are not as important to me as my scumreads. And yes, I'm deliberately not answering Zack's question about said townreads. Although I disagree with what you're saying. DP seems genuinely frustrated in a "caught for the wrong reasons" kind of way and I'm sincere about getting tired of him constantly talking about being confused.

Although I didn't call logic sum for not talking to Zack. I didn't give a reason for why logic is scum (it's for 215 which seems so out of place). I said they're talking to each other. My reasons for thinking logic is suspicious is entirely separate.

[reinoe]

Why?

Not telling. Just to be obstinate.

[reinoe]

how do u feel about the voxx alt zaccino

Who is voxx?

[Slaan]

I only know the style of few people playing. This morning when i went to through the thread, mostly it is just nonsense. Csargo seems like Csargo. So does GH. Pizza seems to be claiming some sort of ultimate knowledge which is completely normal for him. Choxorn drops by and does the minimum and you and Manasi seem to have some sort of sweet talking going on, which i think i recall also from earlier games. DP seems like he is on the verge of meltdown when it comes to mafia, which i can relate to quite well. I could not get any reaction from Slaan with my vote, which is too early for me to analyze. Logic seemed to be eager to react to my sudden activity, but thats about it. What have you observed so far? It would be lot easier to read it through one post then from myriad of posts.

How could I react when I'm not around lol. I think the critic was that there was plenty of other stuff going on you could've chimed in on, instead you complained that noone commented no your vote on me... A post such as this one is what Zack probably wanted/expected in the first place

[Fredwood]

You're right. My town reads are not as important to me as my scumreads. And yes, I'm deliberately not answering Zack's question about said townreads. Although I disagree with what you're saying. DP seems genuinely frustrated in a "caught for the wrong reasons" kind of way and I'm sincere about getting tired of him constantly talking about being confused.

Although I didn't call logic sum for not talking to Zack. I didn't give a reason for why logic is scum (it's for 215 which seems so out of place). I said they're talking to each other. My reasons for thinking logic is suspicious is entirely separate.

I don't care about your suss on Logic aside from the fact that you're not pushing him. My issue is you pushing Zack over logic because "Zack" didn't talk to logic. You're saying logic is scum, therefore Zack is scum because he's avoiding logic. Well get logic lynched first then go after Zack.

[Slaan]

That last explanation would leave space for reinoe/Dp being w/w.

Not very likely, but I can just about imagine it being cooked up in scum chat.

Na, dp doesnt seem like the player to go along with something like that imo

[reinoe]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I think if it was an honest push on dp, the people making it would be roping me in as well and painting us with the same brush. Since I've pretty much escaped heat for it, I think the more likely explanation is that it's a calculated push designed to go after the person more likely to be mislynched (sorry dp).

Either that or it's just a lazy read in the first place because it's not a real read to begin with.

No, you and DP are not acting in the same light. You've mentioned that Pizza was "confusing" twice. Once was along with a bunch of other reads in post 220. Again in post 260, but you only brought it up because someone directed a question to you.

DP has had multiple post talking about how ATPG is confusing completely unprovoked and unconnected to anything else.

[reinoe]

I don't care about your suss on Logic aside from the fact that you're not pushing him. My issue is you pushing Zack over logic because "Zack" didn't talk to logic. You're saying logic is scum, therefore Zack is scum because he's avoiding logic. Well get logic lynched first then go after Zack.

No, I'm not saying logic is scum therefore zack is scum.

1. Logic is scum independently of Zack.

2. Zack has talked to everything that moves except logic. Therefore they're either masons/scum/neighbors. I stated this once already. Either way they're talking to each other OOT and thus have no reason to talk in thread.

3. Zack is scummy independent of Zack.

They are not necessarily scum together but somehow they are talking to each other.

[reinoe]

Dp101 - Lock Town
Slaan - Town

Logic - Null
Csargo - Null

Monty - Third Party

pizza - scum
GH - scum

Zack - lock scum

Townreading for your 113.

"THIRD PARTY"? What. How and why would you come to that conclusion.

[Kagemusha]

Woa, maybe we should lynch you so you can go back to school in order to learn to make some good skins!

Do not worry. I run a company for a living, not a graphic designer per se. Hopefully you turn out to be at least as good mafia player as i am a forum skin maker. Welcome to the Org.

Cant get any scummyness out of you but i have to wonder how come Logic does not want to talk about why he thinks you are not scum. Maybe he doesnt like to to become too involved in the thread?

[Fredwood]

No, I'm not saying logic is scum therefore zack is scum.

1. Logic is scum independently of Zack.

2. Zack has talked to everything that moves except logic. Therefore they're either masons/scum/neighbors. I stated this once already. Either way they're talking to each other OOT and thus have no reason to talk in thread.

3. Zack is scummy independent of Zack.

They are not necessarily scum together but somehow they are talking to each other.

[Winston Hughes]

Townreading for your 113.

"THIRD PARTY"? What. How and why would you come to that conclusion.

It's my default read on Monty, probably because I don't understand what he's doing half the time as either town or scum.

[Kagemusha]

Btw what is this ISO people keep rambling about? You people have dwelved so deep in this stuff that i need a mafia dictionary to understand you peeps.

[Slaan]

Alright and I'm done catching up, yay. Overall impressions so far:

1. GH: Seems ok solvey but I know he can fake that as scum so he's just null in my book. Imo he has to be judged by his success in game and not by how towny he seems from posts alone.
2. Csargo: Didnt really like most of what he wrote, an early weird read that he immediatly backpaddled on.. wouldnt mind a lynch here today
3. dp101: Very towny from tone and AtE. From the comments I saw about him here he doesnt seem to be considered as the greatest player so him faking his frustration seems very unlikely
4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.
5. Fredwood: Seems alright so far, not many posts but focused on solving the game.
6. El Barto: no poster
7. Montmorency: ... I'd call him toneally scummish atm.. there were alot of posts that feel off a bit. #119 akwardly trying to insert himself in our nonsense videogame discussion, his push on the 'reaction test' thingy (which I don't understand but I also don't care much), #250 is weird...
8. Zack: Actually don't have anything AI on him despite his many posts. The more memorable stuff was his reactions to being townread but thats just NAI in my book (since I sometimes do the same as both town and scum)
9. Cuthillius: weak pop in
10. Manasi: Manasi seemingly being solvey gives me the creeps. Also weird point made on my, how was I uncomfortable? Cautions sure being mostly w/ new folk but I didnt feel uncomfortable. Maybe a bit drunk but that's neither here nor there
11. Slaan: lock goat
12. Reinoe: The more I think about the more null she is. I don't think it very likely that her antagonizing attitude is wolfy but then again I don't see why not... given that its an alt an all. Maybe someone wants to try out a new strategy.
13. Choxorn: Who?
14. Winston Hughes: Almost same as Zack though I don't recall anything he said in regards to the game.
15. Logic: Didnt start solving really so far, a slight post on Kagemusha, a townread on me (which makes him scum ;))... I expect more!
16. Xiahou: ...
17. Kagemusha: Well his vote on me and then complaining that noone commented on it felt off... curious where he goes from here.

Where this leaves me:
dp101
Fred
GH, Zack, Winston
Csargo, Montmorency


... which isnt much now looking at it. The others are all basically null and I didnt want to put them all in there....

Yap :)

[Zack]

Gaaah, I couldn't help myself and was sneaking peeks at the thread on my phone. Found somewhere to sit down and pull out my laptop because I really want to say something.

re: why dp is town

No, it's not because "he's awkward as town and is being awkward here." I don't think that's necessarily true, anyways, but that's another discussion.

I recently hosted a game, a week or two ago, where DP was a wolf. I read his posts in the game, I read his posts in wolfchat. There are two specific things that I like from DP so far, and one vague thing.

1. He knows that I noticed how much he started randomly commenting on things as "spicy" in that game, and thought it was something people in the game should have been noticing in the game as being off. So, DP rands wolf here, and probably keeps that in mind as something to avoid, especially around me. But he did the opposite -- he specifically said it in a few times, tried to bring my attention to it, and wanted to gauge my reaction. That's a town move.

2. Reinoe called him out. Many wolves feel uncomfortable standing their ground and going toe to toe with someone in the thread, and so fall into the trap of being overly conciliatory in an awkward way. As mafia, I'd expect DP to respond to this in some form of "sorry I'm busy with school, I'll try to be better" or whatever. Instead, he basically told Reinoe: eff you, piss off.

3. The vague one. He just, seems town to me.

---

Normally, this wouldn't elicit quite the rustle brush in me as it has here. But, the last time I thought town DP was being town DP and didn't speak loud enough against it, he was mislynched d1 and I was fairly pissed about it. Don't want that to happen again, so I'm planting my flag.

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?), and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction. It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

I think reinoe could have sensed DP as someone he could push around and went for the throat. Kicking the puppy, as Renata and I think Monty have described it in the past. The level of being an abrasive, "I do what I want and I'm not nice about it!!!" feels overblown, like it's a performance. No person actually behaves like this unless it's an affectation.

---

I'm keeping my eye on Manass. Like I've said in previous games, her scum meta is exactly this: pop in, not really do much, complain about people not talking to her, then leave. It's not exactly too far out of her town range either, to be fair... In my experience if she's a wolf she will play pretty straightforwardly pro-wolf, and that will probably become clearer after a few days.

Cuth too, blergh. This is my problem with d1, I always think way too many people are being suspicious. For now, DP, Fred, and Slaan are the only people I feel good about saying they're above null. Few people are null or slightly above or below it, maybe. Rest are in the poo pile.

When you said "people", do you mean reinoe and cuth?

@GeneralHankerchief, did you answer the above question?

Also, is there an intentional difference between how you play on here and off-site, MU specifically? You seem more ... enthusiastic there.

[Zack]

No, I'm not saying logic is scum therefore zack is scum.

1. Logic is scum independently of Zack.

2. Zack has talked to everything that moves except logic. Therefore they're either masons/scum/neighbors. I stated this once already. Either way they're talking to each other OOT and thus have no reason to talk in thread.

3. Zack is scummy independent of Zack.

They are not necessarily scum together but somehow they are talking to each other.

This has no basis in reality. I have talked to Logic, try re-reading the thread.

[Slaan]

Do not worry. I run a company for a living, not a graphic designer per se. Hopefully you turn out to be at least as good mafia player as i am a forum skin maker. Welcome to the Org.

This hurdle shouldnt be hard to overcome Ty and thanks for having me :)

Cant get any scummyness out of you but i have to wonder how come Logic does not want to talk about why he thinks you are not scum. Maybe he doesnt like to to become too involved in the thread?

He did

[GeneralHankerchief]

Here's where I'm at right now:

I think Zack and Dp are still town.

I'm not particularly interested in lynching Pizza today even though I don't really have a read on him.

I think Kage is displaying some pretty decent towntells so far (willingness to get into it with people early on and picking his spots as they come) but I'm not giving him a pass for the full game yet.

Of the two Dp pushers I talked about earlier, I like Reinoe more than Cuth because Reinoe's explanations are decent and more well thought out than Cuth's.

I'm a little bit wary of Slaan right now because he's acting a bit different than in other games I've played with him in/read of his, but I think it can be chalked up to adjusting to a new environment for now.

I think Fred could be a bit better so far.

Vote: Cuth

[Slaan]

Ok I put Zack townish for now just for wall posting right after I wallposted!

[Slaan]

Btw what is this ISO people keep rambling about? You people have dwelved so deep in this stuff that i need a mafia dictionary to understand you peeps.

Isolating ppl, only looking it their posts in thread... GH made a 'how to' do it here in this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...g-from-offsite

[Fredwood]

I think Fred could be a bit better so far.

I think your hat looks dumb