I'm alive. Trying not burnout myself on 72 hour days, and to avoid even more complaints about thread size.
I've come around to the philosophy that a full reads list on d1 is mostly pointless, but I am mentally preparing a tiered ordering on lynch preference (and no - it's not the same thing) and looking over some stuff.
Any questions you want me to answer, not directly related to the above two statements, shoot.
I'm alive. Trying not burnout myself on 72 hour days, and to avoid even more complaints about thread size.
I've come around to the philosophy that a full reads list on d1 is mostly pointless, but I am mentally preparing a tiered ordering on lynch preference (and no - it's not the same thing) and looking over some stuff.
Any questions you want me to answer, not directly related to the above two statements, shoot.
I don't townread you and think you're still firmly in both ranges.
Maybe the biggest red flag would be you unabashedly sheeping Pizza like this -- I'd figure you're usually too paranoid for that sort of thing, as town.
I don't townread you and think you're still firmly in both ranges.
Maybe the biggest red flag would be you unabashedly sheeping Pizza like this -- I'd figure you're usually too paranoid for that sort of thing, as town.
You and others have contested this (mostly indirectly), but Zack feels too free-spirited. He's committing to trivial things, but gliding about the agendas of the day. Only Csargo agrees AFAIK. If Zack flips scum I think it spews you as scum-risk, but if not I think you're a solid town read. Pizza for one believes this kind of calculation only has a place later in the game.
El Barto is kind of a wasted lynch for now, but it would be neutral policy lynch. Similar for Manasi.
Choxorn is edging toward old-school scummy lurking and popping-up.
Xiahou has only his entrance, and as the guy who invited him to play I want to see him play.
For now that sounds like a Logic lynch by default, which as I said is a case Pizza argued well.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
You and others have contested this (mostly indirectly), but Zack feels too free-spirited. He's committing to trivial things, but gliding about the agendas of the day. Only Csargo agrees AFAIK. If Zack flips scum I think it spews you as scum-risk, but if not I think you're a solid town read. Pizza for one believes this kind of calculation only has a place later in the game.
This case makes sense only if you have literally never read a game I was in.
You and others have contested this (mostly indirectly), but Zack feels too free-spirited. He's committing to trivial things, but gliding about the agendas of the day.
I like this. It speaks to my residual doubt on Zack.
He's confounded his scum meta in way that's entirely plausible to me.
But if this is a new stage in his scumevolution, I can believe this might be a tell.
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Only Csargo agrees AFAIK. If Zack flips scum I think it spews you as scum-risk, but if not I think you're a solid town read. Pizza for one believes this kind of calculation only has a place later in the game.
Is my connection with Zack just about our opening, or is there more recent evidence?
I looked over Logic in this game, I looked over Logic in the XCOM game. I still maintain my stance.
It looks the same to me, or at the least not different enough to be concerning. In every game I've seen him in, I thought he seemed vaguely suspicious and he was town in all of them. He got votes and pressure plenty in XCOM, and was eventually mislynched. I re-read the dead QT to try and get some insight into why Pizza was so confident Logic was town. I didn't see anything except "he's pure" or some variation a few times, which doesn't help me, and quoting a random post and saying it's a good post.
I still think this is exactly the situation Jarema found himself in IKEA Mafia, which sooh also hosted -- Pizza (and visor in that game too) worked themselves into a frenzy tunneling someone who often posts awkwardly as town and is mislynch bait, I told them I thought Jarema was basically rand and they were reading too much into it, they told me I was an idiot, Jarema was lynched, Jarema was town.
I'm completely baffled how it's gotten so much steam and backing, other than the obvious reason that Pizza has yelled about it nonstop and people obey Pizza when he does that.
No. The opposite if anything - typically a villager will put more effort into solving the game than a wolf who is merely giving the appearance of doing so.
Originally Posted by Zack
* searching brain for any wolfy mechanics talk to discuss *
Originally Posted by Zack
Hi Renata.
What's your approach to reading me going to look like this game? I don't think you ever town-read me in the only scum game you've seen of me so far, but elsewhere you've indicated you're not sure how anyone reads me. No need to worry about me using your answer to help me fool you, because if I'm a wolf I'll just kill you tonight anyways.
Originally Posted by Zack
It does bother me a little the way GH canvassed for opinions on this, instead of giving one himself.
Originally Posted by Zack
Visor thanking posts but not posting. Probably a wolf. Kappa.
Originally Posted by Zack
I agree it is a weird interaction.
Originally Posted by Zack
Bit weak, don't you think?
Vote: Winston Hughes
Winton Hughes, atheotes wolf team. Maybe Visor. Al spewed town or mafia, depending on your interpretation.
GH, Renata town.
Originally Posted by Zack
I think defending someone, then quickly flipping on it to vote them as a way to defend yourself is not a good look. I'm sure Winston will try to handwave this away as a joke or something, but I don't really buy that.
Originally Posted by Zack
Well start searching for something better, instead of waiting for it to drop out of the sky.
Your progression on Al just makes no sense to me. And your reaction to my accusation being to defend yourself with "it's okay because I don't care" doesn't exactly change my mind.
Originally Posted by Zack
Ok, tell me your top 3 wolves and top 3 villagers Winston.
Originally Posted by Zack
Exactly. The last quote especially downplays the fact that Winston defended Al and implied Renata should find a better vote, then suddenly voted Al when I said Winston sounded like he was defending a teammate. Then acts like that's not how it happened at all, it was just lolnotcaring (and while shitposting is a thing Winston does as town, particularly early on, not caring isn't).
Originally Posted by Zack
What makes you think he is so towny?
This is a weird vote from you.
Originally Posted by Zack
lol reaction tests. "I did something wolfy to see if you would call it wolfy. You've fallen into my trap, wolf!"
Won't be available until tomorrow probably. Go Falcons.
Originally Posted by Zack
I don't see what about this warrants all the votes. I assumed he was just referring to reading the rules and shit. Who cares.
Originally Posted by Zack
Yep, answering questions is something i simply can't do as a wolf. I've been caught.
Originally Posted by Zack
Have to avoid the n1 kill somehow.
Originally Posted by Zack
I think the cases on Arakhor and Al Sips are bad. I don't have a strong read either way, but the things they are being accused of are not alignment indicative in my opinion, and if they flip wolf I'm going to shrug and call it dumb luck, rather than good hunting. Arakhor in particular I have mislynched for being awkward d1 (when I was a wolf).
Originally Posted by Zack
re: visor as a wolf
His effort and seriousness levels will depend a lot on his teammates and the game state. He tends towards doing less and joking/trolling more than he would as town, but he's certainly capable of being serious and doing a lot as a wolf too. I don't think I ever bother trying to read him d1 in any case.
Originally Posted by Zack
Yes. If I have to break the current 3-way tie I'd vote Dp101 without hesitation.
Originally Posted by Zack
I also think Winston popping in to say only this is not a good look.
In that game, choxorn got plenty of flak for his behavior, and at best his posting was defended as being not bad, not "pure". He was only "cleared" after a pretty dedicated bussing of his teammate. I think bringing it up like this is a fairly disingenuous way of discrediting a townread of choxorn in this game, and I say that without really having an opinion on chox here either way.
Originally Posted by Zack
It's like I think you're wolfy.
Originally Posted by Zack
Voting someone for not answering some random question you stubbornly refuse to repeat
Originally Posted by Zack
Why the hell are people voting for Al. Low postcount is not wolfy in and of itself.
Originally Posted by Zack
Why haven't you?
Originally Posted by Zack
He went right back to al, is this a serious question? lol
Originally Posted by Zack
Looking forward to you vaguely throwing suspicion my way all game for ???.
Originally Posted by Zack
So Al not even caring about self-pres doesn't affect your read in any way? You'd rather talk about DP changing his vote for 30 seconds somehow clearing him?
Originally Posted by Zack
Al seems like an easy mislynch. I repeat my thoughts from earlier, he hasn't done anything actually wolfy and if he does flip wolf it's just dumb luck.
Originally Posted by Zack
Like, are you suggesting Al and I coordinated that in wolfchat? What would be the point? I don't get why that would even bother you or why you would care.
Zack, here are your notable D1 posts from Swords and Sorcery. You seem different somehow. I think you probably are.
I have time to figure it out.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
I like this. It speaks to my residual doubt on Zack.
He's confounded his scum meta in way that's entirely plausible to me.
But if this is a new stage in his scumevolution, I can believe this might be a tell.
Is my connection with Zack just about our opening, or is there more recent evidence?
Opening and detachment, something about dancing. Not that it has to be identical, but your town-town exchanges D1 from the game I just referenced had more weight. It could still be low-key friendly banter and poking now, but it has my attention.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
I thought he was town in XCOM D1 iirc, with various amounts of paranoia throughout. Or at least my confidence that he was town was greater than 50% pretty early on.
Originally Posted by Sooh
I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.
I'm completely baffled how it's gotten so much steam and backing, other than the obvious reason that Pizza has yelled about it nonstop and people obey Pizza when he does that.
I feel you.
But I came to a Logic scumread for my own reason: control.
What I've seen of townie Logic, he exercises little conscious control and just posts what he thinks.
Okay, I'm isoing Logic here (alignment unknown) and comparing it with his iso in Pokemon (town).
The first thing I'll note is relative postcount: On D1 of Pokemon, he made 13 posts (count might be off by one or two) in a 48-hour phase. Here he's got 18 posts so far, 48 hours into a 72-hour phase, though I'll note that he hasn't been around the past day or so. So if we apply the ol' "sort by postcount, become mafia expert" test factoring in his baseline, Logic's actually a bit ahead of the pace here.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I'm not sure how much this test actually applies to .Org games, but I feel like the information couldn't hurt
---
The second thing I'll note is Logic's start to each - in general there's fluff/talking about his recent games/the theme of the particular game he's in.
Pokemon early posts:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Logic
That kind of lying sounds like scum to me! Vote: Raith Kemmler
(just joking around about flavor, RVS vote)
Originally Posted by Logic
Breadcrumbing is bad, because I am awful at it.
Did anyone else ever name their Poke-rival after a real world person they couldn't stand? My poke-rival was always named "Seth." I was in high-school by the time I started playing pokemon (4 years after its debut.)
Originally Posted by Logic
I'd like to think so.
I've only played one game on this forum before, and I recognize a handful of the players from that game in this one. Unless you've played on the Playground in the last 3 years, no one has played a game with me before.
seirekhaan feels like he might be teamed with Csargo here. It's not much, but that is what I get out of this. Of course, this could be completely wrong, depending on their level of familiarity with each other. The Novice vote seems a bit forced.
Congratz! I just did the same almost 2 years ago. Still not completely unpacked. Several boxes of D&D books and the like.
This seems odd. I can't pinpoint why this seems odd, but I don't get this.
(the above post is a lot of him responding to various quotes from other people, click through for context)
Originally Posted by Logic
Edited quote for profanity. Not sure if this is friendly profanity, but it doesn't feel like it to me. Maybe this feels this way because I am an outsider/interloper to this community, but I gotta say:
...I really agree with Champ.
2 minutes pass, and you proclaim the thread dead?
I've only seen Manasi play once, and I was convinced of her wolfiness right up to her role reveal... as a townie. She was super defensive on votes placed against her there too, so maybe this is more of the same. I just think I'm not a fan of the s***post mafia style she employs. Maybe it's the Kanye avatar that's pinging my radar instead.
I usually don't post more than a handful of times on day one, and rarely at all on Saturday/Sunday local. It definitely doesn't help me that this community moves far faster than I am used to.
(same as above)
Originally Posted by Logic
I played precisely one game on the Org (French Revolution hosted by GeneralHandkerchief, where I somehow convinced a large portion of the playerbase that I was scum, when in fact, I was not.) Some players I recognize from that game in this one. The second sentence was an incomplete thought; there was supposed to be an additional clause in there, and I didn't notice it until you pointed it out to me. So, besides the one game here on the Org, all my mafia/werewolf experience is from the Playground.
Early posts this game:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Logic
GalCiv 3 has been my jam lately. It's almost hard to go back to CIV 5 after that. But, it should also be 1UPT, in my opinion. And only maybe make an exception for fleets.
Originally Posted by Logic
I cut my teeth on Civ2 Fantastic Worlds, and eventually came to the conclusion that Alpha Centauri is the best CIV game. Barely played 3, and 4 was missing disks when I bought it, so it is immediately disqualified.
Originally Posted by Logic
If you have some spare dinero, give GalCiv3 a shot. It's probably similar enough to the other dogs that you will enjoy yourself. An added feature is the starship designer, whether you are feeling creative or just want the same ship with lasers instead of missles.
Originally Posted by Logic
If thats hiw you welcome newcomers, I guess I'm thankful that for my first game here you were unable to vote for me.
These were all posts made before Pizza's tunnel began.
Now, I'll grant that there's more game content in Pokemon, but if you take a closer look at the context Pokemon got off to serious mode pretty quickly, whereas this game was in screw-around mode for a while longer. Also, it's just Logic clearly talking about something he's passionate about with Slaan.
Speaking of Pizza's tunnel beginning, let's get to his first post on Logic:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Didn't you guys read the script I gave you? Terrible.
smh.
Also, Logic struggling already, sloppy opening moves. Very suspicious.
Logic's response:
Originally Posted by Logic
I admit, I am bad at chess. Maybe mafia too. Not sure what you see that looks suspicious in the 5 (guessing) posts I've made.
Pizza's response:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
If I were to put it to a vote, I wonder what the results would be.
1) Logic should be checkmated
2) Logic should deliver checkmate
3) Pat Buchanan
Be careful, I hear option number 3 got unusually popular that one time.
Maybe chads aren't the only thing that should be hanging.
Check!
Vote: Logic
So I'm not sure how much of this is roleplay, but I think Pizza's initial case on Logic is faulty simply because he's not taking into account the more relaxed context and atmosphere of this game as compared to the others (Pokemon certainly). It hasn't happened in a while (mostly because Pizza's been mafia here so often in the past year or so ) but I don't have to tell Pizza that he's put his blinders on in the past and barreled straight into a tunnel only to bash himself against a wall when that person ended up flipping town.
I don't think Pizza usually does it this early as mafia. Hopefully I'm just able to stop him from having it become one of Those Games this time and that's the end of that.
---
Anyway, moving on. Let's talk about the depth of Logic's reads.
The first thing I'll say is that Pizza has a point here. Logic's word count per post and the nuance of his stuff is down. Compare his early Pokemon reads:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Logic
The information was not incorrect; I've no particular feelings about it either way. I took his answer to be an assessment of his experience with me on the Playground. He gave a third party opinion on the question posed.
Had his interpretation of my clarifying statement been incorrect or incomplete, I would have had been complled to clarify that the answer in no way speaks for me. In general, if someone wants to answer a question asked of me before I get to it, and the answer is not wrong and needs no clarification, then I only clutter up the conversation by repeating their statement as an agreement, so I am usually fine with letting the statement from someone else stand as is.
I guess you could call me an oversharer. I can't let things stand at a simple miscommunication, and I feel the need to explain myself all the time, even when not necessary, such as the context of a game such as this. It's a bad habit of mine. I would say ask the other Playgrounders, but I think Cuthillius is the only one I have played with any frequency to be able to vouch for this behavior of mine.
My clarifying paragraph I think perfectly answers the question, but if this nex part doesn't completely clarify, then I think I am incapable of explaining it.
I have played with a small number of the non-playgrounders in a single game here on the Org. This is a condensed version of sentences 2, 3, and 4 of this quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
What was a joke vote for Raith I cannot support with any evidence. He seems rather quiet, but I don't know if that is how he plays on D1, so he gets a pass for now. With what little I have seen from him, I give hime a slight wolf lean.
Both Seireikhaan and Montmorency feel like as good of targets as any, so I'm going to tie it up for the now. Vote: Montmorency
To his reads here:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Logic
I haven't played chess since about the time that avatar was made. So, a decade or so? I've never considered myself very good. I'm capable of beating my parents and
Hmm. Why do you get a feeling that no one else seems to?
Logic's 10-minute take:
DP is town. DP is not teamed with Pizza, or Zack.
Csargo and Pizza are not teamed. One could be a wolf, but I don't think both.
Pizza feels really weird from normal. I can usually understand him a little, but here, he feels like he is playing 9 moves ahead to my 4. Not sure if he's on my team or not. I stand by my "seat of the pants" statement from earlier.
Cuth jumps in with some slight shade at DP. Is he suspicious of DP?
Kage shows up with what looks like a lazy vote on Slaan. Possibly a joke, but I think there's a more than reasonable chance that Kage is mafia.
Reinoe is the current target of DP's ire, and he is voting for me, (full disclosure, that that vote isn't being counted because it isn't bolded)
His vote on me looks like it stems only from Pizza's accusation. Not sure if sheeping, or he has other reasons for voting for me.
[b]Vote: Kagemusha[b/]
Originally Posted by Logic
One seemingly random vote for something very minuscule, and not related to the game? Yeah, I thought it was a tell. Especially since I don't see Slaan as a wolf.
I can see it.
But you can only do so much with what you're given. Once again, the overall thread context of this game is a lot different that Pokemon. Here, it's a lot of shouting, introductions to the .Org (far more first-time players here than in the Pokemon game), and Zack posting 20 times in a row, before we even get into Pizza's RP act.
In Pokemon, you have stuff like this being tossed around on D1:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Sooh
Ok, I can't say that I necessarily agree with you or see the same things you see, but that might be due to different experiences. I do like that you're being thorough, and I think by keeping a steady line of questioning it'll ultimately make it really difficult for mafia to keep up. That being said, what I meant when I said I was looking forward to your analysis was that I was looking forward to seeing what you're getting from your line of questioning, and how you interpret the responses that you're given.
Originally Posted by SeveringViper
eh, I missed the 24 hour mark
Thoughts if/where I have them.
Actually contributing:
Raith Kemmler - Good posts, providing both responses to questions and unprompted thoughts
El Barto - fair mix of fluff and content, decent comments
Novice - +Good attempts to spark discussion and respond to the results -somewhat weird posts/interactions in regard to Sooh?
choxorn
Sooh - Talkative and friendly, fair amount of fluff giving her second highest post count. Quick to assume an unknown player is new(ish?) to the game? Mostly has responded to content directed at or that mentions her so far. reads post is okay.
GeneralHankerchief - "My first thought was that novice looks a little scummy for pushing everyone to talk about themselves, especially since he's not new here and didn't do this back when he was, my second was that Sooh and Viper probably aren't aligned. votes novice" ???
Not really contributing yet:
Jabbz - busy with moving
Cuthillius - weak disengaged handful of thoughts
Seireikhaan
Logic
Champ
Csargo - top poster of fluff and fireworks
Manasi - what
Montmorency
Autolycus - Posting about probably not having much to post for a while, nice.
No data:
BSmith
Vote: GeneralHandkerchief
Originally Posted by novice
Of course, someone has to make sure there's something to check back in on from day 1 when day 3 comes around.
I'm not that bothered either with regards to who hangs, but I would like to get some information out of it. So let's chat.
Is your vote on me
A) A pressure vote
B) A random joke
C) A random crapshoot, where all things being equal, you might as well lynch a play style you're unfamiliar with
D) A serious vote based on scumtells hidden under your vest
If A or B, do you see it turning into C, or would you rather move the vote to another player? If D, could you open your vest?
Do you have opinions on any of the other kids on the lawn? Viper, Sooh, Raith and Cuthilius, for example?
---------
The conclusion of all this is that I think Logic is fine and posting in line with the general relative temperaments of the thread. Were he around and Pizza not death tunneling him over the past 24 hours, I'd expect a similar gradual uptick in content.
"I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
"Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
"I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
Originally Posted by TosaInu
At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.
"I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
"Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
"I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
Originally Posted by TosaInu
At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Originally Posted by Sooh
Vote count:
) but I don't have to tell Pizza that he's put his blinders on in the past and barreled straight into a tunnel only to bash himself against a wall when that person ended up flipping town.
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