Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Fredwood]

I got ninja'd while watching the baseball game...which comes down to the crux of the issue with Bart being final 3

If Bart is Town and makes it to final 3, town doesn't win. The thing that keeps making me go back and forth is that putting Bart that high makes no sense as either alignment, It's just an odd stance to take on him. Discounting half the spew and holding up the other spew as relevant....all I ask is for consistency in the spew, maybe it all boils down to only being half through your re-read, but still even when re-checking things I remember the context of the thread at the time. Especially if Zack is playing for a Bart before Zack flip.

[Montmorency]

Why would choxorn be protected on night one though. That doesn't make any sense.

Chox shouldn't be the n1 doc target. And the first inventor gift would have been the gun, delivered too late to affect N1.

Unless choxorn is a bulletproof, the only thing that makes sense is that Slaan is hinting that he shot choxorn, when he wasn't protected, and was actually shooting elsewhere.

Which you don't lie about if you're town.

OK, a little hard to follow the logic for Slaan being scum behind these soft-claims, but it sounds like you're drawing on your experience claiming a mafia vig as a town vig, or using it as a way to tease claims from another townie (both?). If so, maybe we should be reading Slaan independently of these considerations because at some point they probably feed more into confirmation bias than offer new information.

So I was like, he can possibly be scum still somehow, therefore he is scum.

Confirmation Bias.

We can nitpick the early game, but I think most people liked his later D1, so if Slaan is scum then all that substance ought to fall apart on closer examination.


Also, how Slaan is representing the wagonomics before EOD, and how distancing vs. bussing applies, and if it reflects on Slaan's analyses at the time.

Much later tonight.

[Slaan]

I got ninja'd while watching the baseball game...which comes down to the crux of the issue with Bart being final 3

If Bart is Town and makes it to final 3, town doesn't win. The thing that keeps making me go back and forth is that putting Bart that high makes no sense as either alignment, It's just an odd stance to take on him. Discounting half the spew and holding up the other spew as relevant....all I ask is for consistency in the spew, maybe it all boils down to only being half through your re-read, but still even when re-checking things I remember the context of the thread at the time. Especially if Zack is playing for a Bart before Zack flip.

Idk what else to tell you, that's where I arrived after my first 30 pages.

[Fredwood]

Idk what else to tell you, that's where I arrived after my first 30 pages.

I'm just sort of talking out loud to myself hoping someone smarter tells me I'm dumb one way or the other. I read EOD1 at least twice but I probably have a harder time divorcing my memory of the context of the thread because I was observing it all passively but was actively there for the actual "bart" push....I need to stop self-arguing points for your defense damnit.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vanilla townie fake claiming having a shot claims there could be a missing kill that night, but not two missing kills.

You had to actually be a vigilante to even CLAIM there was three kills.

When you can no longer claim town vigilante, you are sweeping this one under the rug and going with vanilla townie.

None of your actual shots, if any were successful, were on actual suspects.

Since you are a vigilante and claimed not to be, you're mafia, Slaan.

[Montmorency]

I got it.

He does have a vig power and the doc has been successful.

There's no way he as vanilla townie claims that:



This is it, this is the damning evidence.

Nooooooo way in hell does he suggest this many kills are in play unless he's eventually going to claim town vigilante.

But EVEN if he was going to claim town vigilante, he's got to explain eventual scummy kills. So in lie-world, there's also a scum vig.

There's no way to account for all the missing kills at this point, so that plan has to be abandoned.

But he's claiming in this post there are 3 kills in play, two more than the known mafia nightkill, and he never had the joat's vig shot, because I did.

There wouldn't be a town vigilante in this game unless the mafia had one. And he could always claim to be a limited vig.

Since he knew that the town had a doctor, he could easily account for missing kills.

But from a vanilla townie standpoint, he should never be claiming a Third Kill.

That's it. That's the proof in your own words, Slaan.

You were gonna claim a limited vig and frame choxorn with it. But you had to back off because that's too many kills in play that we haven't seen yet.

But why does he need to frame Choxorn if he's in the POE? How does that happen?

If he doesn't know there's a Santa role then he can't expect there ever to be an opportunity to claim anything.

Vanilla townie fake claiming having a shot claims there could be a missing kill that night, but not two missing kills.

You had to actually be a vigilante to even CLAIM there was three kills.

When you can no longer claim town vigilante, you are sweeping this one under the rug and going with vanilla townie.

None of your actual shots, if any were successful, were on actual suspects.

Since you are a vigilante and claimed not to be, you're mafia, Slaan.

Aha, so you're claiming that he actually hit a protection tonight. But - we don't know that without a doctor claim?

And if a doctor doesn't claim, then we shouldn't lynch because a town doctor should absolutely claim if it clear a townie and saves them from lynch?

That makes it sound like either way he's town, but no - it means hinging so much on this assumption doesn't work.

[Montmorency]

Wait, DP claimed, OK.

Well, that's consistent, but... I need to think.

[Fredwood]

I think Pizza is playing 20 moves ahead of us already and I'm racing to catch up.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The jig is really up now. No vanilla townie claims there were three kills that night. Never happening.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Fredwood, Monty, check my logic.

I've got him. There's literally no way to explain that.

[Fredwood]

Fredwood, Monty, check my logic.

I've got him. There's literally no way to explain that.

It looks bad?, I mean I'm already waffling... I'll have to think some more just in case I'm just being blinded by your brilliance and fancy pants. (In other words I feel that might be a little bit over my head wrt to PR hunting providing scummy kill cover, where I come from everyone is a Power Role)

[Dp101]

The jig is really up now. No vanilla townie claims there were three kills that night. Never happening.

So wait, are you saying we had an additional doctor as well as the gifter? Because that's the only way this past night's results make sense from my perspective, and it seems like we have a few too many roles in that situation (or at least, it feels weird to me for there to be 2 protective roles of the same alignment).

[Askthepizzaguy]

So wait, are you saying we had an additional doctor as well as the gifter? Because that's the only way this past night's results make sense from my perspective, and it seems like we have a few too many roles in that situation (or at least, it feels weird to me for there to be 2 protective roles of the same alignment).

Yes, there is a full doc!

Shit I need to be able to explain this.

Ok, deep breath. There are two ways of explaining Slaan's posts. Check this logic.

[Dp101]

Yes, there is a full doc!

Shit I need to be able to explain this.

Ok, deep breath. There are two ways of explaining Slaan's posts. Check this logic.

Oh no, I get what you mean about predicting 3 kills and 2 prevented being scummy in this way, I was just saying that last night's results mean that we 100% have to have a full doc and I was not completely certain of that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I got it.

He does have a vig power and the doc has been successful.

There's no way he as vanilla townie claims that:

I'm also really wondering which roles there will be in this game in the end. Doc is clear on our side... but I imagine a vig would've vigged Chox or someone last night. Maybe Winston was vigged from mafia and their NK on pizza failed? What other roles could there be in a game such as this? (my homeboard only uses the same boring roles over and over and they don't seem likely)... don't speculate on this, don't think it helps town... just things I wonder.

This is it, this is the damning evidence.

Nooooooo way in hell does he suggest this many kills are in play unless he's eventually going to claim town vigilante.

But EVEN if he was going to claim town vigilante, he's got to explain eventual scummy kills. So in lie-world, there's also a scum vig.

There's no way to account for all the missing kills at this point, so that plan has to be abandoned.

But he's claiming in this post there are 3 kills in play, two more than the known mafia nightkill, and he never had the joat's vig shot, because I did.

There wouldn't be a town vigilante in this game unless the mafia had one. And he could always claim to be a limited vig.

Since he knew that the town had a doctor, he could easily account for missing kills.

But from a vanilla townie standpoint, he should never be claiming a Third Kill.

That's it. That's the proof in your own words, Slaan.

You were gonna claim a limited vig and frame choxorn with it. But you had to back off because that's too many kills in play that we haven't seen yet.