Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Fredwood]

As long as you're reading me, give me your best shot.



That's how it's typically used. You don't need to tentatively conclude that someone "might" be scum, because that's redundant.

Lol I'm nitpicking but I'm saying you shouldn't have said that at all, during the ISO I got to your wall and I had to stop and read it twice because the construction is more assertive then the wishy-washy EHHHH I don't think Zack could be scum with GH. Also you weren't implying "might" you were implying "not likely".

As far as reading you, I said where I'm at, I don't think I can seriously consider you right now with Slaan around. I've seen town do the things that bothered me during my ISO of you. I've never seen town forget demonstratively stated reads they've had.

Basically, I wouldn't have ISO'd if Pizza didn't ask, and I feel very conflicted about the Slaan flip. He's my biggest scum read, but I just really don't want him to be scum. Part of it is the response to legit issues with him, cus I do that often as town, but his initial response to pressure was really bad.

shrug

[Montmorency]

Lol I'm nitpicking but I'm saying you shouldn't have said that at all, during the ISO I got to your wall and I had to stop and read it twice because the construction is more assertive then the wishy-washy EHHHH I don't think Zack could be scum with GH. Also you weren't implying "might" you were implying "not likely".

I think it's clearer if you understand the GH ISO on why GH is scummy as separate from, though informing, the interaction analysis with Zack.

I don't know how to resolve Slaan; I've read his responses better than you or Pizza, but he may or may not be mechanically compromised.

[Fredwood]

I think it's clearer if you understand the GH ISO on why GH is scummy as separate from, though informing, the interaction analysis with Zack.

I don't know how to resolve Slaan; I've read his responses better than you or Pizza, but he may or may not be mechanically compromised.

If you're reading him better talk me down on the inconsistency or straight up forgetfulness of his reads. It's sticking in my craw right now. His response is he was just parroting Pizza, I never got the impression that that was something he'd do when I've seen him town before. Especially not to the point where he forgets the reads. Maybe I'm being too much of a stickler about it because I just remember my reads as either alignment so it might be projection or too much to expect everyone else does the same.

[El Barto]

Barto is in the POE and he's who I would have lynched today if Slaan's POE didn't look overly calculated.

What?

[Xiahou]

Vote: Csargo
Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

[El Barto]

Vote: Csargo
Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

I might have missed something, but why are you voting for him?

[Csargo]

Vote: Csargo
Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

Sup?

[Xiahou]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Csargo
Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

Compare that post from infinity ago Xiahou!Town to this post.

Someone tell Xiahou why he's wrong.

I mean, he could be going back to his old townie games and like, deliberately matching his own structure and pacing and meta, but the odds tell me he's just a gosh danged townie this game.

If that's wrong, well played, Cool Hand Xiahuke.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Can we not lynch Xiahou now?

I carry two candles.

My candle for him will never be extinguished, even if my own is.

[Slaan]

As far as reading you, I said where I'm at, I don't think I can seriously consider you right now with Slaan around. I've seen town do the things that bothered me during my ISO of you. I've never seen town forget demonstratively stated reads they've had.

This is also a read that's weird to me. Especially as mafia I'd be careful on how my reads progress and make sure everything fits neatly together... just look at my readlists from the orchestrated chaos game:

Day 1 part1
Day 1 part2
Day 2
Day 3
Day 4

I don't forget reads as mafia.. and I don't make them up unless I can explain how I got there. As towny here on the the other hand I have other things on my mind and don't pay so much attention to my progression but why would I, got nothing to hide... which is probably not a good thing but I can't invest the energy over this long period of times lacking the motivation I'd have as mafia (I much prefer playing as scum...). In addition I had a hard work week, hosted a mafia game on my homesite (currently still running) and other private stuff going on so yea, me adopting someone elses reads whom I trust and then forgetting about it because it wasnt really my read is just something that happens apparently.

I mean I know that that's what happened, don't know if I can make you believe me.... or if it makes any difference as I doubt anyone would trust me come F3 or smth so might as well resolve me today if that clears other stuff up.

That being said I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling from Fred... why does he have problem in reading Monty as long as I'm around? Doesnt matter what my affiliation is, as either I'm scum then the game ends when I'm lynched or I'm town in which case the game proceeds... so they only way it makes sense to look at monty should be under the assumption that I'm town. Feels like he's setting up Monty to be another lynch candidate after I flip... not to mention that I feel his play is different from his wild west game. Feels way more aggressive here.. maybe that's only because I'm on the receiving end though (or because he was under fire in the WW game..).

[Fredwood]

This is also a read that's weird to me. Especially as mafia I'd be careful on how my reads progress and make sure everything fits neatly together... just look at my readlists from the orchestrated chaos game:

Day 1 part1
Day 1 part2
Day 2
Day 3
Day 4

I don't forget reads as mafia.. and I don't make them up unless I can explain how I got there. As towny here on the the other hand I have other things on my mind and don't pay so much attention to my progression but why would I, got nothing to hide... which is probably not a good thing but I can't invest the energy over this long period of times lacking the motivation I'd have as mafia (I much prefer playing as scum...). In addition I had a hard work week, hosted a mafia game on my homesite (currently still running) and other private stuff going on so yea, me adopting someone elses reads whom I trust and then forgetting about it because it wasnt really my read is just something that happens apparently.

I mean I know that that's what happened, don't know if I can make you believe me.... or if it makes any difference as I doubt anyone would trust me come F3 or smth so might as well resolve me today if that clears other stuff up.

That being said I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling from Fred... why does he have problem in reading Monty as long as I'm around? Doesnt matter what my affiliation is, as either I'm scum then the game ends when I'm lynched or I'm town in which case the game proceeds... so they only way it makes sense to look at monty should be under the assumption that I'm town. Feels like he's setting up Monty to be another lynch candidate after I flip... not to mention that I feel his play is different from his wild west game. Feels way more aggressive here.. maybe that's only because I'm on the receiving end though (or because he was under fire in the WW game..).

Pizza literally requested someone else to ISO monty because he needed fresh eyes. He has no reason to listen to you, Monty isn't going to do it, Bart is isn't even reading the thread. So I mean I guess I should have ignored him. In the end I'm pretty much where I was at the beginning of the phase with Monty just with more specifics, I'm not going into where I'd Lynch Monty because I don't know, I think he's town at the moment. I don't have him unlynchable, or lock, I never did.

[Slaan]

Pizza literally requested someone else to ISO monty because he needed fresh eyes. He has no reason to listen to you, Monty isn't going to do it, Bart is isn't even reading the thread. So I mean I guess I should have ignored him. In the end I'm pretty much where I was at the beginning of the phase with Monty just with more specifics, I'm not going into where I'd Lynch Monty because I don't know, I think he's town at the moment. I don't have him unlynchable, or lock, I never did.

I wasnt objecting to you ISOing him or even the points you made, it's the way you didnt want to place him... the reason being essentially because I'm around. You said in your ISO of monty Post #1896 that your read has taken a hit and you see crafty wolf in his day and now he's town again.. the fact that you mention me in this ISO 3 times is also weird to me.... though tbh I don't know how to place that. Guess its simliar to the way you suss that I find this progression and reasoning bad but I also somehow don't see this coming from a mafia who'd have a firmer opinion and not flip flap like that....

[Fredwood]

I wasnt objecting to you ISOing him or even the points you made, it's the way you didnt want to place him... the reason being essentially because I'm around. You said in your ISO of monty Post #1896 that your read has taken a hit and you see crafty wolf in his day and now he's town again.. the fact that you mention me in this ISO 3 times is also weird to me.... though tbh I don't know how to place that. Guess its simliar to the way you suss that I find this progression and reasoning bad but I also somehow don't see this coming from a mafia who'd have a firmer opinion and not flip flap like that....

Because I wouldn't lynch Monty before I lynch you because of how you've treated Monty so forgivingly this phase (lock clearing) despite some serious suss you threw down on him Day 1 and that you said in the first 30 pages of your re-read that he looked good, when he in fact he didn't, he didn't look bad exactly either.

So what am I to think?

If Town Slaan is rereading, why would Town Slaan over credit Monty for his Body of work day 1, while also forgetting that some of his strongest suss in the game was on Monty. Is there a reason for Town Slaan to do this?

If Scum Slaan is "re-reading" why would Scum Slaan over credit Monty for his body of work day 1 and leave out that some of his strongest suss was directed towards him? I can think of a couple of reasons for this.

Basically every negative point for Monty in my ISO is a negative point for you and since you started with more negative points already it means I'm not going to be able to properly assess Monty.

Now, obviously I'm not fully sold on your lynch today, there's been bad stuff but some fair points, and I don't know if scum allows himself to become a target at this point in the game. At least this is what I would do, but I'm also not that good as scum so.

It's a fair point that you would remember your reads as scum, but I just don't like the idea that such a high town read would just be sheeping without saying anything, especially when it was shared by almost the entire thread. That means I can't trust your reads as town and if I can't trust what you're saying as town, what's the point of having you around?

Winston isn't the only issue, you lock cleared me, you hard sussed Monty, and these weren't consensus reads at the time so there was no sheeping going on. Ok so we can write off one as your misuse of the term lock clear. However, the fact that you accused Monty hard in a long involved post, and just sort of forgot about it just doesn't ring true to me. It wasn't an adoptive read, it was a progression. You can't possibly have the same excuse that you have for the Winston slip.

[Slaan]

Yea, never gonna use the term lock clear anymore. At times I think I just said it to sell a point I saw as very towny... rip me I guess on that front, and well learned.

Regarding Monty: I didnt like Monty D1 thats true. But now that Zack has flipped this looks alot better in my eyes... He is not locked by any means, except chox (and I guess pizza, cuz that would be some srsly disgusting play if he was ^^) noone is. Having now reached well into D2 in my reread I've gotten concerned again because he has GH/Zack as 'only one of them can be mafia, they are never partners' or somesuch.... and then goes after GH over Zack even though he sussed Zack on D1 rather strongly.. at this point I'm just trying to make an ordered list of ppl from least scummy to most scummy and hope to get ppl to vote with me on the most scummy ppl. There arent any obvious slam dunk scum cases for anyone around, at least not that I can see so I have to deal in shades of grey and obviously figuring this it out is hard. Which is to no suprise since anyone on me is wrong and outside of that no one seems to be sure about much so yea. Maybe me bringing up town points on ppl I prev looks scummy looks bad from youru perspective or the other way around but I'm not going to tunnel any read at this juncture...

Regarding Winston: iirc I even said in the post where I put him as one of my top points that pizza's case on him was good so I'm good with the read... and before pizza made that case I even said that I'm still pretty null on Winston if I'm not mistaken... can't look it up rn because I want to be through with my reread before the day is over (obviously) and I have to still do some grocery shopping + EoD/night is coming up in game I'm hosting so yea..

[Fredwood]

Yea, never gonna use the term lock clear anymore. At times I think I just said it to sell a point I saw as very towny... rip me I guess on that front, and well learned.

Regarding Monty: I didnt like Monty D1 thats true. But now that Zack has flipped this looks alot better in my eyes... He is not locked by any means, except chox (and I guess pizza, cuz that would be some srsly disgusting play if he was ^^) noone is. Having now reached well into D2 in my reread I've gotten concerned again because he has GH/Zack as 'only one of them can be mafia, they are never partners' or somesuch.... and then goes after GH over Zack even though he sussed Zack on D1 rather strongly.. at this point I'm just trying to make an ordered list of ppl from least scummy to most scummy and hope to get ppl to vote with me on the most scummy ppl. There arent any obvious slam dunk scum cases for anyone around, at least not that I can see so I have to deal in shades of grey and obviously figuring this it out is hard. Which is to no suprise since anyone on me is wrong and outside of that no one seems to be sure about much so yea. Maybe me bringing up town points on ppl I prev looks scummy looks bad from youru perspective or the other way around but I'm not going to tunnel any read at this juncture...

Regarding Winston: iirc I even said in the post where I put him as one of my top points that pizza's case on him was good so I'm good with the read... and before pizza made that case I even said that I'm still pretty null on Winston if I'm not mistaken... can't look it up rn because I want to be through with my reread before the day is over (obviously) and I have to still do some grocery shopping + EoD/night is coming up in game I'm hosting so yea..

This is where he addresses all 3. With Monty he just says he changed his mind on his suss of him, but he never really progressed that much on him leading up to yesterday when he lock cleared Monty. Which again, is part of the lock clearing problem, but he also used the F5 phrasing which was clunky.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Because I wouldn't lynch Monty before I lynch you because of how you've treated Monty so forgivingly this phase (lock clearing) despite some serious suss you threw down on him Day 1 and that you said in the first 30 pages of your re-read that he looked good, when he in fact he didn't, he didn't look bad exactly either.

So what am I to think?

If Town Slaan is rereading, why would Town Slaan over credit Monty for his Body of work day 1, while also forgetting that some of his strongest suss in the game was on Monty. Is there a reason for Town Slaan to do this?

If Scum Slaan is "re-reading" why would Scum Slaan over credit Monty for his body of work day 1 and leave out that some of his strongest suss was directed towards him? I can think of a couple of reasons for this.

Basically every negative point for Monty in my ISO is a negative point for you and since you started with more negative points already it means I'm not going to be able to properly assess Monty.

Now, obviously I'm not fully sold on your lynch today, there's been bad stuff but some fair points, and I don't know if scum allows himself to become a target at this point in the game. At least this is what I would do, but I'm also not that good as scum so.

It's a fair point that you would remember your reads as scum, but I just don't like the idea that such a high town read would just be sheeping without saying anything, especially when it was shared by almost the entire thread. That means I can't trust your reads as town and if I can't trust what you're saying as town, what's the point of having you around?

Winston isn't the only issue, you lock cleared me, you hard sussed Monty, and these weren't consensus reads at the time so there was no sheeping going on. Ok so we can write off one as your misuse of the term lock clear. However, the fact that you accused Monty hard in a long involved post, and just sort of forgot about it just doesn't ring true to me. It wasn't an adoptive read, it was a progression. You can't possibly have the same excuse that you have for the Winston slip.

For reference. I think this is the post about forgetting townies.

Something has to change, posts have to push them to null or they need to slip or something for town reads to go away.