Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Slaan]

Xiahou can be a suspect tomorrow at the earliest.

He's never been under pressure and needs to be given a chance to claim before he's speed lynched.

Other than that, it's an okay theory.

Actually a good point.... I wonder if we should ask Cuth to claim if he's around... but I guess you are all set on Barto dying today so w/e.

Vote: Barto

[Slaan]

Cuth you said you are more or less caught up.. what is your take on the situation?

[Askthepizzaguy]

If Barto gets to 4, please don't add additional votes to him, just say you want to vote him if so.

Use the time. If he's town, what in his posts say that he is?

[Choxorn]

Vote: El Barto

I have no better ideas at this point.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lol POE.

[Dp101]

I’ve been in a similar position to cuth recently, haven’t had much WIM in general with the game state being what it is. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game use PoEs as aggressively as this one before, it’s kind of weird. I think overall though Slaan doesn’t need to be a suspect right now, he’s reacted authentically to the pressure. His currently proposed PoE is fine by me.

[Slaan]

If Barto gets to 4, please don't add additional votes to him, just say you want to vote him if so.

Use the time. If he's town, what in his posts say that he is?

Isnt it over in 30min? If he is mafia we can discuss all we want after the game is over, if he isnt we can discuss during the night ^^

[Askthepizzaguy]

Isnt it over in 30min? If he is mafia we can discuss all we want after the game is over, if he isnt we can discuss during the night ^^

I'm not done isoing Csargo yet. And burying someone is not necessary if there is a better alternative.

I would like to make a decision on Csargo as to whether he should still be town read or not.

[Slaan]

Alright, have fun

[Montmorency]

If Barto gets to 4, please don't add additional votes to him, just say you want to vote him if so.

Use the time. If he's town, what in his posts say that he is?

Check out this angle (general, not Barto). I'm planning to explore D1 overnight with this lens, and see if it leads to patterns that are actionable wrt living players.

So Zack reads Manasi horribly, wait till scums flip and do partner analysis; GH can read Manasi reasonably well, better than she might expect (votes Manasi). So that's a divergence.

Going by a quick advanced search of the thread I can't find a direct Manasi read in a comprehensive post by Zack, but at the end of D1 GH was scumreading Manasi, at points even his top scum. Still a divergence.

Here's what I have by the two on Barto so far (major items, not complete):

Well, now that I'm finally live, some combination of Fred, Barto, and Reinoe. I'd also like to stay live for a little while.

GH looking at people including Barto - BUT, this was before Zack made the case against him.

Okay so I got distracted doing other stuff and was only able to get to Fred and Barto.

Barto I still have no idea on, and probably won't until we get a flip. Wouldn't say no to lynching him but at the same time I fully recognize this is a lazy read. Don't care though.

Fred I feel somewhat better about, I think it was dp(?) who said that while he was around he made some pretty good points, and here I agree pretty much. Seems natural and focused, not really forcing anything. Fred can be town today.

GH looks at Barto, but takes away a nullish, self-admittedly lazy read. Still before Zack's case.

Also, anyone who is riding the train of "Logic is scum here, because he is noticeably and explicitly different from XCOM mafia, where he was town."

Read Barto in that game, read Logic in that game. Read them both in this game.

There's a stark difference in one of them, and it's not Logic.

Difference in games between XCOM and this one greater for Barto than for Logic.

People refuse to read him, because he's barto. But it's not that hard.

In the CFC/MTGS game on MU, I defended him for days before finally giving up. He was town.

I don't remember the game it was, but he was worried with fixing votecounts or something while having zero interest in the actual thread. I called him out on it as being wolfy, and got a mixture of scorn and ambivalence.

In Sooh's last game, I called him out as a probable wolf again. He was scum. I barely escaped getting mislynche d1, and got immediately killed by the town vigilante.

In Representative Democracy, as my teammate, I was literally begging him in our scum chat to please, post and do something. He did nothing but occasionally pop in to complain about the number of posts and do not really anything, pretty much what he's done here.

Look at XCOM. How much time does he spend complaining about having to read the thread? Does he make thoughtless OMGUS votes then peace out?

Nope.

Zack's case on Barto that he is trolling and lacks interest in the thread.

I mean, the interpretation/paraphrase that makes most sense to me is the following:

There are two wagons right now, Logic and Barto. I'm scumreading Barto more than Logic but am fine with either lynch. Unfortunately I'm still going to vote Logic despite my greater scumread of Logic.

It just... doesn't make sense from town? It's almost like he's trying to appease Pizza.

GH shading Fred, who suspects both Barto and Logic but thinks Logic should be the 'default' lynch for the day. (This could mean any number of things, but it should be included).

***

So I think Zack wants Barto dead, and GH doesn't really care, except maybe indirectly. It's still a divergence, but not as large as the one on Manasi. I have no idea what it means. What it means depends on Barto's flip now, and the nature of any other divergence I can pick up in D1.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

El Barto (4): Montmorency, Pizza, Slaan, Choxorn,

Csargo (1): Xiahou,



Not voting (5): Fredwood, El Barto, Cuthillius, Dp101, Csargo

With 10 players there are 6 to hammer.


EOD4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Csargo

[Montmorency]

Vote: Csargo

I disagree.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

El Barto (3): Montmorency, Slaan, Choxorn,

Csargo (2): Xiahou, Pizza,



Not voting (5): Fredwood, El Barto, Cuthillius, Dp101, Csargo

With 10 players there are 6 to hammer.


EOD4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I only got halfway through but I'd like to discuss it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can see it both ways. There are a few good posts and odd interactions with the dead scums, but also scummy stuff.

[Montmorency]

I can see it both ways. There are a few good posts and odd interactions with the dead scums, but also scummy stuff.

Something that should be noted, how do you interpret that Csargo was posting right around when GH made Choxorn a 3-person wagon and he just ignores it, eventually voting Logic. And that's how he ends the day.

Ruthless power wolfing if that's how he treats the wagon to save his partner, and he doesn't have the pro-activeness afterwards to demonstrate a desire to win as a solo power wolf.

It was probably a poor decision to bold you in that list tbh, since I would probably lump you in with Zack/WH at this point. My vote has just been a placeholder for a while now. Zack/WH/ATPG are me just being cautious about just lumping you all as town without due diligence on my part. It's still early and I think doing so would be a mistake. I did say at some point that the Logic flip would effect my view, which seems clear to me, but maybe I didn't make it so, but I really like holding contradictory views in my head, which has already been pointed out :). I honestly don't really town read anyone at this point, besides Kage, Monty, and DP101, I feel good about a lot of the unbolded people in my list, but I'm not really town reading them per se. As far as reading your slot for alignment, I'll just say that I'm being obstinate ~.

Just because we've come to the same conclusions on who is suspect at this point doesn't mean that you can't be scum or I can't be scum. It's just waiting for flips to see.

If you lay out your problems with me concisely ATPG I'll try to respond to them to the best of my current ability.

Vote:Logic

Also, this isn't what I asked for, but it'll do.

I'm not really concerned with where you put me in your POE, because if I'm lynched I've played the best town game I can under the circumstances. I mean I'm not just going to rollover and die, I'll definitely fight you on that front, but if you choose to lynch me after those two, then that's how it's going to go.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the interactions bit. I've always responded to accusations btw, just with varying degrees of seriousness regardless of alignment imo. I'm pretty sure you talked somewhere about that.

[Montmorency]

If Slaan was confident that the Choxorn wagon could have beat the Logic wagon, then Csargo is singlehandedly what kept Logic solidly ahead when he could have tied the wagons.

Why didn't he tie the wagons?