Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Aha, a guilty one!

11 posts.

He actually unvotes and votes for someone else.

Look how he's tossing shade onto people.

Scum-Xiahou from a long time ago:

"I can certainly see the logic in voting for Sasaki- it's the only way to be certain the we've killed a mafioso between him and Kage. OTOH if Kage really was mafia, it would certainly cast Sigurd's efforts to support Kage's claims in a suspicious light... At this point, I guess we should finish it to be sure: Vote:Sasaki"

Well, I've just got to go with my gut on this one and..Vote:disco
The guy was in a big hurry to see people lynched in round one and has been laying low ever since. Everyone who makes any suggestion or accusation is lynched- meanwhile he's just sitting back quietly watching the town tear itself apart.

Well, we've definitely caught a break by having a doc and now a cop left. Something interesting though..... Looking at Seamus' PMs, I think we can now safely assume that Sasaki was a mafioso and Kage was the real detective- Sasaki's PMs now look forged by comparison.
Where to go from here? I think Csar. Despite his talk about lynching Sasaki from the very beginning, he instead voted for Kage and when it was clear Sasaki would be lynched- he dutifully voted Sasaki. With Disco cleared, I've gotta suspect him.
Vote: Csar

Hmmm, I went back and skimmed the earlier rounds and didn't see anything I'd call "engineering" until post 293- by which point (by my count at least) Sasaki already had a majority vote registered. Am I missing something prior to that?
Wouldnt that be the idea?
I'll admit that I don't have anything concrete(what is in this game?)- but to me he's seems more likely than any other to be a mafioso at the moment. If a more likely candidate is revealed I'm more than willing to change my vote- but I'll leave it stand for now since 1 vote isnt going to get him lynched anyhow.

Compare to his other town games and this game.

I see... words.

Where are his words when he's town? He's got less than half this amount.

His suspects all game have been Csargo (early game, and now), GH, and Zack. That's all.

Csargo could even be scum. Like, I don't even know if he's voted for a townie so far this game. And he's trying to influence people about this much: zero.

Let me check the other games. I don't remember him being especially wordy, but I'll look.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lol at your win loss record as scum.

It is still like 80 percent not counting turbos, iirc.

But the list of games as scum is probably 4 times that amount by now.

[Fredwood]

Lol you posted in the wrong thread.

[Askthepizzaguy]

LOL wrong thread.

Anyway, he's a bit more talkative in VII, but, only here and there.

Instead, I'm finding this, like in Pirate ship.

Vote: Visorslash
He's french.
1. He's been behaving suspiciously all game.
2. He's voted for me. I know I am not french, therefore my suspicions against him are raised even further.

Can anyone give me a compelling reason why he shouldn't be lynched?

This post in Pirate Ship III is basically Xiahou's town meta.

Says a reason or asks why it's not wrong, reasoning is super straightforward, or simply a declaration they're scum. They vote, and generally, he does not unvote. It's rare that he even moves a vote. When he does, it's because the discussion and evidence has pushed him that way. Otherwise he seems to prefer to vote whoever he thinks is scummy once a round, whether they're being voted already or not.

This, plus a few or a couple examples each game where he strings together a few sentences. Usually a couple separate topics involved, so he's only on any one topic for a sentence or two. But then he returns to one-liners, which are sporadic.

His scum meta was much denser, and involved more shading and persuasion attempts and fewer one liners. And there's a clear difference in intent. There are clear attempts to control the outcome of the game, from his vantage point of not saying a whole lot, by changing minds and making arguments to push townies in a direction.

In other words, my guess is, Xiahou!scum would have repeated such an attempt here, and said things to push the game in any direction. To persuade the rest of us where to go.

Instead, he's content to come out of the shadows like a ninja, attack someone, and slip back in.

And that's what he does as town. He's not about that controlling the discussion life.

Xiahou is a ninja assassin as town, and his scum game involves visible intent to change course.

I believe he'd change course on Zack or GH or not target them in the first place.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lol you posted in the wrong thread.

Yep.

GH can delete postgame and unbump that old thread. I added to it but didn't change the content much except by addition.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Csargo
Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

Compare that post from infinity ago Xiahou!Town to this post.

Someone tell Xiahou why he's wrong.

I mean, he could be going back to his old townie games and like, deliberately matching his own structure and pacing and meta, but the odds tell me he's just a gosh danged townie this game.

If that's wrong, well played, Cool Hand Xiahuke.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Can we not lynch Xiahou now?

I carry two candles.

My candle for him will never be extinguished, even if my own is.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sheesh.... 25 pages already???

Vote: zack
For spamming out over 150 posts.

ATPG is a close second... but you can only vote for one.

Opening post this game.

Keep in mind, Zack had gotten votes on D1. He had been voted more than once and been shaded by a couple of people before this vote.

But he was also not lock scum or a lost cause nor did he have a big wagon at the time. In fact reinoe had unvoted him.

This is just a bizarre place to put a vote if Xiahou is scum. Timing-wise, plus the fact that he's just not someone who unvotes.

This was a voting Zack to death vote, when Zack was going super hard.

Xiahou lock town based off of this one post alone, and I'm serious about that lock. Look at the context.

Look at his meta and who he is. Look at who Zack is. That's not someone you bus d1.

It goes against every single mafia principle.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Look at the reasons behind that vote.

Keep in mind who he is and how many posts he tends to deal with.

Basically, this was his entire reason to lynch Zack, because he wouldn't shush his mouth.

If it were me, I'd have gotten the vote instead. I almost did but Zack came into this game with a truckload of WIM that got him town reads.

It's as simple as that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The final scum made a play in one of their posts, or several, to get the lynch off of Logic or off of Zack or off of GH.

And they are not currently in my town pile, because those in my town pile have really earned it and there's zero reason to suspect them.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cuth is not really affecting the outcome of the game or pushing things very much in any direction either.

[Askthepizzaguy]

ISO of Cuth

With others who mention him once he starts posting.

i have no hot takes to drop

feel like getting >twice as much sleep as i did last night and coming back to this thread is probably the best course of action

i did think dp's been a bit weird and the reaction test was really... stiff and ???

around the time reinoe had pushed on dp, and dp got upset.

also

logic i think i've always assumed you've played chess because y'know

Logic has/had a chess themed avatar at one point on his home forum.

not much of a push

i think the push itself is p lazy

but yeah someone voted you and you ~steppedish out of thread?

Possibly thinking dp got rattled by pressure.

fair enough

why do you think you got particularly upset over that in particular in particular in particular?

Trying to understand that reaction.

Not a fan of cuth in this page

He says nothing except trying to imply dp is being wolfy without actually saying it

But he should know this isn't wolfy at all for him

I'll stop here before someone complains more about me posting too much, unless someone responds

All on page 5 at 80ppp.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alright and I'm done catching up, yay. Overall impressions so far:

1. GH: Seems ok solvey but I know he can fake that as scum so he's just null in my book. Imo he has to be judged by his success in game and not by how towny he seems from posts alone.
2. Csargo: Didnt really like most of what he wrote, an early weird read that he immediatly backpaddled on.. wouldnt mind a lynch here today
3. dp101: Very towny from tone and AtE. From the comments I saw about him here he doesnt seem to be considered as the greatest player so him faking his frustration seems very unlikely
4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.
5. Fredwood: Seems alright so far, not many posts but focused on solving the game.
6. El Barto: no poster
7. Montmorency: ... I'd call him toneally scummish atm.. there were alot of posts that feel off a bit. #119 akwardly trying to insert himself in our nonsense videogame discussion, his push on the 'reaction test' thingy (which I don't understand but I also don't care much), #250 is weird...
8. Zack: Actually don't have anything AI on him despite his many posts. The more memorable stuff was his reactions to being townread but thats just NAI in my book (since I sometimes do the same as both town and scum)
9. Cuthillius: weak pop in
10. Manasi: Manasi seemingly being solvey gives me the creeps. Also weird point made on my, how was I uncomfortable? Cautions sure being mostly w/ new folk but I didnt feel uncomfortable. Maybe a bit drunk but that's neither here nor there
11. Slaan: lock goat
12. Reinoe: The more I think about the more null she is. I don't think it very likely that her antagonizing attitude is wolfy but then again I don't see why not... given that its an alt an all. Maybe someone wants to try out a new strategy.
13. Choxorn: Who?
14. Winston Hughes: Almost same as Zack though I don't recall anything he said in regards to the game.
15. Logic: Didnt start solving really so far, a slight post on Kagemusha, a townread on me (which makes him scum ;))... I expect more!
16. Xiahou: ...
17. Kagemusha: Well his vote on me and then complaining that noone commented on it felt off... curious where he goes from here.

Where this leaves me:
dp101
Fred
GH, Zack, Winston
Csargo, Montmorency

Slaan mentions his opening as weak.

Gaaah, I couldn't help myself and was sneaking peeks at the thread on my phone. Found somewhere to sit down and pull out my laptop because I really want to say something.

re: why dp is town

(snip)

Cuth too, blergh. This is my problem with d1, I always think way too many people are being suspicious. For now, DP, Fred, and Slaan are the only people I feel good about saying they're above null. Few people are null or slightly above or below it, maybe. Rest are in the poo pile.

@GeneralHankerchief, did you answer the above question?

Also, is there an intentional difference between how you play on here and off-site, MU specifically? You seem more ... enthusiastic there.

Zack shades Cuth again.

[Askthepizzaguy]

(snip)

Of the two Dp pushers I talked about earlier, I like Reinoe more than Cuth because Reinoe's explanations are decent and more well thought out than Cuth's.

I'm a little bit wary of Slaan right now because he's acting a bit different than in other games I've played with him in/read of his, but I think it can be chalked up to adjusting to a new environment for now.

I think Fred could be a bit better so far.

Vote: Cuth

Gh also pushes Cuth.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kage, follow me onto Cuth, his vote on Dp was bad.

Trying to influence the outcome, to cause a lynch Cuth on day one.

So far this looks outstanding for Cuth.

Is there an echo in here? I am pretty sure I said this the last time I looked at Cuth, which is how he got into my town.

[Dp101]

Ok, so after that very helpful meta-analysis, I’m willing to clear Xiahou for the foreseeable future. From my POV, at this point I’d go Csargo->Cuth->Slaan.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So be it. Unvote and Vote: Cuthillius

Was town.

Here for a bit. Zack and GH are even more solidly town. I agree that Cuth’s popin was mediocre but I’m not sure that that’s damming, from the sounds of his posts it seems like he wants to prioritise sleep over more mafia. Csargo is underwhelming to an extreme degree this game and I can’t tell why. I do not understand Kage, overall not comfortable really making a read on him.

Dp is not helping Cuth get lynched.

Now that ive used this brave new ISO method for the first time to Cuth. He is smelling like rotten scum to me. Pushing, but not quite pushing, trying to connect a bit, making excuses..Best bet for scum so far.

Kage got manipulated, obviously.

This post was linked in choxorn's 517, do I have this out of order? I might have missed Logic's post.

I haven't played chess since about the time that avatar was made. So, a decade or so? I've never considered myself very good. I'm capable of beating my parents and

i did think dp's been a bit weird and the reaction test was really... stiff and ???

Hmm. Why do you get a feeling that no one else seems to?

Logic's 10-minute take:
DP is town. DP is not teamed with Pizza, or Zack.

Csargo and Pizza are not teamed. One could be a wolf, but I don't think both.

Pizza feels really weird from normal. I can usually understand him a little, but here, he feels like he is playing 9 moves ahead to my 4. Not sure if he's on my team or not. I stand by my "seat of the pants" statement from earlier.

Cuth jumps in with some slight shade at DP. Is he suspicious of DP?

Kage shows up with what looks like a lazy vote on Slaan. Possibly a joke, but I think there's a more than reasonable chance that Kage is mafia.

Reinoe is the current target of DP's ire, and he is voting for me, (full disclosure, that that vote isn't being counted because it isn't bolded)

His vote on me looks like it stems only from Pizza's accusation. Not sure if sheeping, or he has other reasons for voting for me.

[b]Vote: Kagemusha[b/]

Logic also pushed against Cuth.

[Askthepizzaguy]

On day one every dead scum tried to get Cuth lynched.

And I mean tried, like super hard to influence the outcome that way.

They didn't just suggest that Cuth was scummy. They voted there and also tried to influence people into thinking so.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Computer says all zeroes on this. No idea, but I think this might be a difficult draw. Not a big fan but I don't have a good refutation. I'll see how it goes.

Better would be GH captures Logic on g8, winning a queen.

This is me suggesting we don't lynch Cuth but lynch Logic instead.

[Dp101]

This is me suggesting we don't lynch Cuth but lynch Logic instead.

Why bring this up? Just because you are looking for every post that relates to someone doesn’t mean that you have to post the semi-irrelevant ones, and I don’t see how this post helps us determine his alignment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I didn't say anything about number of posts

and I am not exactly handing out glowing praise to chox and cuth

don't like this response

responding to Barto, Zack says this.

Again shading Cuth.

Srsly?

Also, I'm outposting choxorn, Cuthillius and Fredwood by now, but you ain't bitchin' bout them, boy.

Fredwood came in and gave a good long post w/ reads. You came in and delivered nothing so far... and in case you havent noticed Cuth is getting partly scumread for his pop in as well.

The problem is that you are in the thread right now and it seems like you don't want to play.

Slaan shading Barto, mentions Cuth as being scumread. I think by Slaan, if I'm getting the context right. Though he didn't put Cuth in his list o scums earlier, just in the body.

I don't feel any urgency to lynch right now, since half the day is ahead and a number of nulls like Choxorn, Cuth, Barto, and Xiahou remain to sort out. The case against Logic is relatively good for D1, and we need to see him respond against all those nulls. Right now I'm fine continuing to vote you.

Re Manasi: I mean that she would be putting out observations or prods toward her teammates, and she doesn't seem to be observing or prodding much of anyone so far, other than joking with you as usual.

Re: Barto, yes, and he never broke out of it and got lynched. So? That took 2 or 3 days to fill out.

Monty has Cuth as Null, but doesn't push.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why bring this up? Just because you are looking for every post that relates to someone doesn’t mean that you have to post the semi-irrelevant ones, and I don’t see how this post helps us determine his alignment.

It gives a little context. There was pushback to Cuth being lynched on Day 1, that context helps read the other posts.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Big post by Cuth responding to Zack's huge post.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Gaaah, I couldn't help myself and was sneaking peeks at the thread on my phone. Found somewhere to sit down and pull out my laptop because I really want to say something.

re: why dp is town

No, it's not because "he's awkward as town and is being awkward here." I don't think that's necessarily true, anyways, but that's another discussion.

I recently hosted a game, a week or two ago, where DP was a wolf. I read his posts in the game, I read his posts in wolfchat. There are two specific things that I like from DP so far, and one vague thing.

1. He knows that I noticed how much he started randomly commenting on things as "spicy" in that game, and thought it was something people in the game should have been noticing in the game as being off. So, DP rands wolf here, and probably keeps that in mind as something to avoid, especially around me. But he did the opposite -- he specifically said it in a few times, tried to bring my attention to it, and wanted to gauge my reaction. That's a town move.

2. Reinoe called him out. Many wolves feel uncomfortable standing their ground and going toe to toe with someone in the thread, and so fall into the trap of being overly conciliatory in an awkward way. As mafia, I'd expect DP to respond to this in some form of "sorry I'm busy with school, I'll try to be better" or whatever. Instead, he basically told Reinoe: eff you, piss off.

3. The vague one. He just, seems town to me.

---

Normally, this wouldn't elicit quite the rustle brush in me as it has here. But, the last time I thought town DP was being town DP and didn't speak loud enough against it, he was mislynched d1 and I was fairly pissed about it. Don't want that to happen again, so I'm planting my flag.

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?), and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction. It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

I think reinoe could have sensed DP as someone he could push around and went for the throat. Kicking the puppy, as Renata and I think Monty have described it in the past. The level of being an abrasive, "I do what I want and I'm not nice about it!!!" feels overblown, like it's a performance. No person actually behaves like this unless it's an affectation.

yeah ok so

this

this addresses a lot of things i want to address

i slept on my thoughts, but my opinions on this game are still fairly similar to what they were

1. you're... i don't think you've giving him as much credit as ye should?

i got the opposite impression, that he was doing it in a really clunky and... calculated way that was obviously gimmicky

this was making sure someone asked him about it, this wasn't lay a little bait to see if you pick it up

i think dp is the sort of player in whose range it would be to say if i do this it will likely be perceived as lol awkward villagery?

2. i would have agreed with you in the past

but lissa in particular and a few others have reacted in a quite similar way as wolves

i do think it's... not bad at all for him

also i

you know

i'm stopping

wrt point three, i was going to say that i thought his game was ~neutral

but as i talk about it i do feel like

the simpler/more straightforward solution here is that he's just a villager

that said, i think it still overlaps somewhat with his wolf range, and i do have an issue with gh/others? locking him in at this stage of the game, especially given weak reasons of meta tells that dp is certainly aware of and well able to use/manipulate at this point

could well be that there are other unspoken reasons but /shrug

also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

I think the bold is townie thoughts. Even while he's getting all this shade, Cuth is just looking for simple explanations and villagers.

He's not pushing a narrative. He's also not being bussed as far as I can tell. Usually they react to being pushed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kage, follow me onto Cuth, his vote on Dp was bad.

my what now

You know. Did Cuth even vote for dp?

I don't think he did.

Checking.

[Dp101]

You know. Did Cuth even vote for dp?

I don't think he did.

Checking.

He did not. @Askthepizzaguy

[Xiahou]

So then... Csargo?

As with my other votes, it's more gut feeling than deep analysis- but I just feel like he's trying too hard at being vanilla. Slaan gives me a little bit of a scummy vibe too- but glancing at the analysis of others, he at least appears to have a little data to support a town claim. Otherwise... I guess it's just someone who's been flying beneath the radar all game?

[Askthepizzaguy]

He did not. @Askthepizzaguy

LMFAO

Cuth lock town. Friggen. Amazing.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We are back in business baby.

This day one is horrendous. I saw why Cuth was a town lean by isoing Cuth, but searching his name is way, way more effective.

Lynch inside of Csargo, Slaan, and Monty for the win.

Next three lynches boom boom boom.

Outstanding.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza
choxorn
dp101
Fredwood
Cuthillius <-----
Xiahou
-----
Monty
Slaan
Csargo

Even above Xiahou here.

Terrible!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can only blame my excessive isoing burnout on this sloppiness.

I've read this game way too many fricking times.