Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Good ninja post dp ^^

And pocketing Dp, btw.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Slaan, a big issue I have with your defense is that it's a ton of self-meta.

You'd never crumb a vig as scum vig. Okay, that's plausible. You reacted like I had two heads to that. Probably a bridge too far on my tinfoil.

But, for a lot of other things, your defense has been "I'd never do that" and it's appeared something like three times by now to several different lines of attack.

At a certain point it's just so much WIFOM.

[Slaan]

Slaan, a big issue I have with your defense is that it's a ton of self-meta.

You'd never crumb a vig as scum vig. Okay, that's plausible. You reacted like I had two heads to that. Probably a bridge too far on my tinfoil.

But, for a lot of other things, your defense has been "I'd never do that" and it's appeared something like three times by now to several different lines of attack.

At a certain point it's just so much WIFOM.

Well what other defence do I have. It's not like the points brought up are wrong, they are facts (like Winston). I agree that it looks odd and if I were in your shoes I'd probably also look at this and think its sus. There is no logic reason for the Winston thing for example, I didnt 'decide' to forget I had put him in town for a very short time before he got NK'd since it was a non issue after he NK'd and I didnt have to look at him. I didnt look at him at all this game which is why I had him as null until pizza's case which read good enough and since at the time pizzas other reads matched with mine I figured 'yea sure he can be town'... But since I didnt get there myself it wasnt in my mind.

The Monty thing I actually find a bit funny. Someone said to me during D1 that Monty would be player that would possibly the hardest to read... and they were correct. I'm not a big fan of how I flip flop about him but idk what else to do with him. I can't in good conscience just town read him and then ignore when I see smth scummy... same the other way around. Same thing happened with a few other ppl like Barto too I think.

If I have to get lynched for that than so be it, can't change it. I can't clear myself of that, the only I can do is tell you that Xia is most likely the last scum and hope you'll go there after you lynch me :).

[Fredwood]

Well what other defence do I have. It's not like the points brought up are wrong, they are facts (like Winston). I agree that it looks odd and if I were in your shoes I'd probably also look at this and think its sus. There is no logic reason for the Winston thing for example, I didnt 'decide' to forget I had put him in town for a very short time before he got NK'd since it was a non issue after he NK'd and I didnt have to look at him. I didnt look at him at all this game which is why I had him as null until pizza's case which read good enough and since at the time pizzas other reads matched with mine I figured 'yea sure he can be town'... But since I didnt get there myself it wasnt in my mind.

The Monty thing I actually find a bit funny. Someone said to me during D1 that Monty would be player that would possibly the hardest to read... and they were correct. I'm not a big fan of how I flip flop about him but idk what else to do with him. I can't in good conscience just town read him and then ignore when I see smth scummy... same the other way around. Same thing happened with a few other ppl like Barto too I think.

If I have to get lynched for that than so be it, can't change it. I can't clear myself of that, the only I can do is tell you that Xia is most likely the last scum and hope you'll go there after you lynch me :).

The Monty issue is that you jump on him, then never really mention him as a possibility ever again, in fact you push him way up your reads list, post GH and Zack flip.

If I'm town, and I suss the fuck out of Monty that hard, regardless of if Monty is town or not, I want it addressed at some point. The leaving it lie is what makes me feel it's more likely the interaction is scum SLaan jumping on an attackable town Monty post rather then Town Slaan catching a scummy Monty post.

[Slaan]

The Monty issue is that you jump on him, then never really mention him as a possibility ever again, in fact you push him way up your reads list, post GH and Zack flip.

If I'm town, and I suss the fuck out of Monty that hard, regardless of if Monty is town or not, I want it addressed at some point. The leaving it lie is what makes me feel it's more likely the interaction is scum SLaan jumping on an attackable town Monty post rather then Town Slaan catching a scummy Monty post.

From my perspective he started looking better and better during the second half of D1 (which I think I've mentioned... I'm pretty sure I've posted smth like 'This looks good though monty so I'm moving you up a bit' or smth) and after GH/Zack flipped the interactions I thought scummy on D1 looked towny now iirc.. so yea, didnt feel like mentioning him much after that. Also figured the game would end if we just lynched down our old PoE so I didnt bother reading Monty again because thats.. like Monty is posting way too much. That changed ofc after the last couple of mislynches where I was forced myself to reread the thread... yep

[Askthepizzaguy]

Just to be clear, if Monty is scum we are officially letting him go now.

I am okay with this.

[Slaan]

Just to be clear, if Monty is scum we are officially letting him go now.

I am okay with this.

Yep. Well, if you have to mislynch me that is, we might get him if you and fred did a 180 but that seems unlikely^^. I hope a night kill fails somehow and we get another lynch...

Also imo important: Do not sleep in F4. I can totally see a mafia one shot vig holstering the entire game, it's what I'd do.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This can be the biggest feather in Monty's cap. Earned, imo.

Again, this is why Xiahou's plan doesn't work if he's scum. He's not going to gain addition pylons town points, and even if a pizza guy argues in his defense he still gets lynched.

It was never a winning plan, gentlemen.

Unless his plan is to be a townie and lynch scums.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Slaan, you'd be okay with Xiahou/Csargo as two of the lynches remaining?

Just to clarify.

[Slaan]

This can be the biggest feather in Monty's cap. Earned, imo.

Again, this is why Xiahou's plan doesn't work if he's scum. He's not going to gain addition pylons town points, and even if a pizza guy argues in his defense he still gets lynched.

It was never a winning plan, gentlemen.

Unless his plan is to be a townie and lynch scums.

With the way he is playing there is, in my eyes, never a winning strategy available. If I don't have progression, thoughts or reads from someone that posted less than 1 post / day I can't let them live till the end no matter what. It's not enough to townread them as every vote can be easily faked. We started with 17 ppl or smth, his one vote on Zack is rather meaningless at the time, it wasnt deciding anything, it was even (at least I thought so at the time) highly unlikely that a Zack wagon would be around towards EoD... how often does the top poster D1 get a wagon on him midday that remains till he gets lynched, that never happens...

In regards to monty: Yea, he can have this one if it comes to that. Also a reason I want to push Xia over for example Monty... Loosing to monty feels good. Well not good but deserved. Loosing to someone with 7 posts will just kill me inside.

[Fredwood]

From my perspective he started looking better and better during the second half of D1 (which I think I've mentioned... I'm pretty sure I've posted smth like 'This looks good though monty so I'm moving you up a bit' or smth) and after GH/Zack flipped the interactions I thought scummy on D1 looked towny now iirc.. so yea, didnt feel like mentioning him much after that. Also figured the game would end if we just lynched down our old PoE so I didnt bother reading Monty again because thats.. like Monty is posting way too much. That changed ofc after the last couple of mislynches where I was forced myself to reread the thread... yep

But you completely remove him from you POE while including me. I can objectively see where you'd see where Monty and I are at the same level, but I don't see why with the suss you'd discount my spew over his process, esp, after Lock clearing me (I know you use lock too much, but at the time I didn't know) The issue with Monty is still valid imo. It's not something that's like is defensible so it's kind of unfair to keep harping on it, so I apologize, I was just sort of reiterating my read to Pizza.

(Shrug)

[Slaan]

But you completely remove him from you POE while including me. I can objectively see where you'd see where Monty and I are at the same level, but I don't see why with the suss you'd discount my spew over his process, esp, after Lock clearing me (I know you use lock too much, but at the time I didn't know) The issue with Monty is still valid imo. It's not something that's like is defensible so it's kind of unfair to keep harping on it, so I apologize, I was just sort of reiterating my read to Pizza.

(Shrug)

is correct. Idk anymore my exact reasoning behind everything I did days ago... wasnt this at a point where I'd reread only half the thread? I don't recall, doesnt matter now anyway. Kill me then kill xia and the game ends. Or kill Xia and the game ends a days earlier.

Boy do I hope now that Xia is actually the last mafia after all those posts

[Askthepizzaguy]

If I have to get lynched for that than so be it, can't change it. I can't clear myself of that, the only I can do is tell you that Xia is most likely the last scum and hope you'll go there after you lynch me :).

If it were me, I'd erase everything I've done all game and shake my brain like an etch a sketch in final 4.

But I still have issues voting Xiahou that day. I guess if I somehow made it there (why?) with dp (why?) and fred (why?).

That's about it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Your game is impressive nonetheless and Csargo's is... suspect.

But the bit about Csargo not wanting to give a specific reason why Zack is scummy was a town point I was having trouble ignoring.

I keep going back and forth on which one of you two looks more likely.

I see arguments for why are you not a scum, but I'm not seeing the townieness except as effort and dedication to the game.

At a certain point, that's not enough, versus Xiahou's actual pressing on the wolves who are the most likely to influence the game, while you defended Zack and were basically forced to push GH.

[Slaan]

Your game is impressive nonetheless and Csargo's is... suspect.

But the bit about Csargo not wanting to give a specific reason why Zack is scummy was a town point I was having trouble ignoring.

I keep going back and forth on which one of you two looks more likely.

I see arguments for why are you not a scum, but I'm not seeing the townieness except as effort and dedication to the game.

At a certain point, that's not enough, versus Xiahou's actual pressing on the wolves who are the most likely to influence the game, while you defended Zack and were basically forced to push GH.

Oh cmon, I was all in favor of the GH lynch just wanted to see what and if he'd type some more. Hell I started sussing GH on D1 in relation to a Logic mafia flip, don't take this from me. I'm sad I didnt get on Zack sure but GH was mine as much as anyone elses imo :(

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh cmon, I was all in favor of the GH lynch just wanted to see what and if he'd type some more. Hell I started sussing GH on D1 in relation to a Logic mafia flip, don't take this from me. I'm sad I didnt get on Zack sure but GH was mine as much as anyone elses imo :(

Did you say something more than "if Logic flips mafia, GH looks bad"?

Did you push him after that in any way?

Or did you agree with him that dp101 looked bad for the cfd, after logic flipped?

That's where you don't get credit, Slaan.

[Slaan]

If it were me, I'd erase everything I've done all game and shake my brain like an etch a sketch in final 4.

But I still have issues voting Xiahou that day. I guess if I somehow made it there (why?) with dp (why?) and fred (why?).

That's about it.

Well in this case I hope more ppl will be with me on Xia tomorrow than ppl will be with you on me ^^

Did you say something more than "if Logic flips mafia, GH looks bad"?

Did you push him after that in any way?

Or did you agree with him that dp101 looked bad for the cfd, after logic flipped?

That's where you don't get credit, Slaan.

Yea that dp did look bad at the time, this CFD comment was super weird from my perspective. I mean I sussed GH, I didnt have him 100% always scum.. I was even in favor of killing Chox D2 over him I thought him even more likely to be scum and I'd rather mislynch a quiet towny such as Chox over a strong towny that might just not be in the game such as GH. I still made several cases on him D2 iirc, like my pet theory that referenced the Wild West Game, his motivation after having randed like 80% scum in the last months and how he wasnt in the game which for him was way off and bothered me. If you don't give me credit for that... well it makes me sad but I guess I cant change it ^^

Btw arguing against 2 ppl that have been on me for days is quiet exhausting ^^

[Askthepizzaguy]

Btw arguing against 2 ppl that have been on me for days is quiet exhausting ^^

Heroic effort on your part regardless of alignment on a new forum.

A lot of folks show up and they just don't do anything, and drop out and have to be replaced.

Very refreshing not to need a replacement in a game for once.

[Slaan]

Heroic effort on your part regardless of alignment on a new forum.

A lot of folks show up and they just don't do anything, and drop out and have to be replaced.

Very refreshing not to need a replacement in a game for once.

Yea something I found really suprising here and on MU. We never have subs where I come from (which results in the occational modkill sure) but having the option here seems to encourage ppl to just sign up and not show from the start or being bothered with the setup around D1 or getting pissed at smth (both happened in the orchestrated orchestrated chaos game... was really making me sad). So also thanks for me at everyone for sticking around :)