Feminism out of control?

[HopAlongBunny]

Here's a look at the Wests grand experiment since the end of WW2.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...orkplaces.html

Should we just admit that "men in the workplace" was just a bad idea?
Or is it perhaps, simply the reaction of all apes given power and authority?

[John Smith]

Remember the days when a woman's place was in the kitchen?

I don't.

Feminism in control.

[rory_20_uk]

Here's a look at the Wests grand experiment since the end of WW2.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...orkplaces.html

Should we just admit that "men in the workplace" was just a bad idea?
Or is it perhaps, simply the reaction of all apes given power and authority?

Placental mammals mean one parent has to carry the offspring. The greater the burden between the genders, the greater the difference. Our babies have proportionally massive heads and come out under-developed. This again means that the lactating parent has to spend more time nurturing.

[Beskar]

[rory_20_uk]

Indeed. And if he has children and gets divorced, the fight he will have to be a parent will be vastly in excess of what the mother has to.

Those who went to private schools have greater advantage than those that didn't. Those whose parents didn't go to University and do not see the point have it tougher.

There is no facet of the world that any two people are equal.

[Montmorency]

Indeed. And if he has children and gets divorced, the fight he will have to be a parent will be vastly in excess of what the mother has to.

Those who went to private schools have greater advantage than those that didn't. Those whose parents didn't go to University and do not see the point have it tougher.

There is no facet of the world that any two people are equal.

What you say is true. What now?

[rory_20_uk]

What you say is true. What now?

Sort of my point to what I quoted...

Back to the topic - some times in some places yes. On average it still has some way to go.

[Beskar]

Indeed. And if he has children and gets divorced, the fight he will have to be a parent will be vastly in excess of what the mother has to.

What ever happened to cause you to separate from your wife in the first place? Always made me curious especially as you providing her with child support is a sore point for you.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Bit personal, that?

I suppose the question is whether we need "Feminism" or whether we've come far enough that we can just accept women should be equal and move on as a society. If we accept women should be equal then we no longer need "Feminism" to tackle inequality.

[Husar]

That could go like when we thought we wouldn't need Nazi hunters anymore and now the Nazis are everywhere.
Or like when we thought we wouldn't need unions anymore and wage slavery returned.

Every time conservatives say we don't need something they don't like anymore, it's just a ruse for reactionist measures to be implemented again.

Even apart from that, women aren't equal in society yet. That will more likely be the case once they have more space in the institutions of government/power, including in corporations. That is not to say they have to have 50%. http://www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do...ts-and-figures
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/...in-leadership/

~20% seems a bit low though. Especially if you combine it with the reports about men in corporate leadership positions abusing them.
Always easy to say that maybe they're less ambitious, perhaps they're less ambitious after getting abused by their bosses.

[Beskar]

Bit personal, that?

It is his choice to answer, but it would help give context to why it is such a sore point. I could fabricate twenty different reasons easily, but that won't increase understanding if none of those situations are applicable. It is also difficult to engage, as I would have to make assumptions on what happened which might be more offensive to Rory than the truth.

I suppose the question is whether we need "Feminism" or whether we've come far enough that we can just accept women should be equal and move on as a society. If we accept women should be equal then we no longer need "Feminism" to tackle inequality.

Could also say I am curious with your post. You have previously stated on this topic that you believe in traditional gender roles and that a woman's place is in the kitchen and as a mother, taking care of the household, with the man being the sole provider. Have you since embraced feminism yourself?

[rory_20_uk]

What ever happened to cause you to separate from your wife in the first place? Always made me curious especially as you providing her with child support is a sore point for you.

She left without notice one morning. I put him in his buggy and waved him goodbye. I have no idea why she left. Was everything perfect?No. But to vanish without warning, without ultimatum with a 6 month old child? The reasons kept changing. I begged. I pleaded. I asked for counselling. I did not see my son for c. 8 months. I had no idea if he was alive or dead. I had no idea where he was. The police did nothing. Many nights I cried myself to sleep since I was so worried he was dead. His cot was next to my bed but I couldn't bear to look at it nor dismantle it. My brother had to come and help me dismantle it. Has it scarred me...? Why, yes it has!

The woman's refuge gave her several pointers and phrases to raise "concerns" at court to delay seeing him. I missed his first birthday. She made several accusations - none found to be true. Her conduct has raised several concerns with Social Services but none enough to let me have my son full time - or more time when it is not convenient.

She's taken him out of school without telling me, she's moved away from where I live without telling me. She threw me out of the house when I came to see my son on his 4th birthday. She seems to care little beyond the money she can get for him. Now he's seven and he's having to deal with an unstable parent who is constantly demanding more money and is jealous of the relationship who he refers to as his step-mother.

The sore point is the hypocritical system that has the mother as the best carer and all evidence to the contrary is studiously ignored - but any concerns raised are to be fully investigated before the father can see his child.

This whole issue is rarely acknowledged. BUT we do hear constantly about the number of women who are on Company Board of Directors - even though no effort is made to see what proportion of women even want these roles and the personal sacrifices they require. Perhaps I am the only father in this position who cares about his child. I doubt it. And which is more important?

[Beskar]

She left without notice one morning. I put him in his buggy and waved him goodbye. I have no idea why she left. Was everything perfect?No. But to vanish without warning, without ultimatum with a 6 month old child? The reasons kept changing. I begged. I pleaded. I asked for counselling. I did not see my son for c. 8 months. I had no idea if he was alive or dead. I had no idea where he was. The police did nothing. Many nights I cried myself to sleep since I was so worried he was dead. His cot was next to my bed but I couldn't bear to look at it nor dismantle it. My brother had to come and help me dismantle it. Has it scarred me...? Why, yes it has!

The woman's refuge gave her several pointers and phrases to raise "concerns" at court to delay seeing him. I missed his first birthday. She made several accusations - none found to be true. Her conduct has raised several concerns with Social Services but none enough to let me have my son full time - or more time when it is not convenient.

She's taken him out of school without telling me, she's moved away from where I live without telling me. She threw me out of the house when I came to see my son on his 4th birthday. She seems to care little beyond the money she can get for him. Now he's seven and he's having to deal with an unstable parent who is constantly demanding more money and is jealous of the relationship who he refers to as his step-mother.

The sore point is the hypocritical system that has the mother as the best carer and all evidence to the contrary is studiously ignored - but any concerns raised are to be fully investigated before the father can see his child.

This whole issue is rarely acknowledged. BUT we do hear constantly about the number of women who are on Company Board of Directors - even though no effort is made to see what proportion of women even want these roles and the personal sacrifices they require. Perhaps I am the only father in this position who cares about his child. I doubt it. And which is more important?

Thank you for sharing your story. This is definitely an example where you are being failed by the system.

[Montmorency]

Placental mammals mean one parent has to carry the offspring. The greater the burden between the genders, the greater the difference. Our babies have proportionally massive heads and come out under-developed. This again means that the lactating parent has to spend more time nurturing.

That's the great vulnerability that admits the subjugation of women, but we can stand to cut against the grain.