UK Politics Thread

[Pannonian]

It's nothing to do with Brexit, my objection has nothing to do with Brexit, I did not support the Prorogation.

Prorogation having been invoked I do not support the decision of the Supreme Court.

The judges at no point said that Boris Johnson's reasons given were "not the truth", they merely deemed them inadequate under the circumstances.

As the Lady Justice noted, the courts have made judgements on the King's​ power since 1611. It would have been better for all of us if they had attacked the Queen directly for following Boris Johnson's advice instead of accepting she is hostage to it.

Everyone knows it's to do with Brexit, but the court's ruling sidesteps it by looking purely at the government's given reasoning, which is to prepare a Queen's speech. It has never taken anywhere near 5 weeks in the past, and the evidence given by the government does not support taking this long. So using the government's own reasoning, the only explanation is that the government is stopping Parliament from its role of oversight. Which, unlike your hypothetical argument, is both real and current, and as great an abuse of power as it gets in our constitution. What the government has done is both unprecedented, and unsupported by law. To allow it is to tacitly support it. Thus the Supreme Court did not allow it. The government should follow convention, and if it breaks convention and lies about it, then its actions must be nullified, not allowed. Unless, of course, you take the view that the government is above law and not bound by it.

[Greyblades]

Oh great, just what we need 4 extra weeks of parliament doing nothing, loudly. I was enjoying the peace.

[Pannonian]

A female MP (and it's females who get the most of this) asks the PM to tone down his language as she and others have been receiving death threats, given that one of their number had been assassinated in 2016 due to feelings inflamed by the Brexit campaign. The PM replies that he's never heard such humbug in his life.

There has never been a greater scumbag in the office of PM than Boris Johnson.

[Furunculus]

“Have seen more hours of the Commons than I care to remember + that was one of most brutal + mad I have ever seen - no shred of remorse from the PM ruled to have broken law yesterday, paltry attempt at answering Corbyn's Qs, a few Labour MPs screaming, 'you should be in jail'”

hehe, the sausage machine doth grind exceedingly slow of late.

[Pannonian]

What do the Leavers think of this?

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/sta...217845248?s=19

[CrossLOPER]

What do the Leavers think of this?

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/sta...217845248?s=19

I liked it better when he was reciting Kipling in former colonies.

[Pannonian]

Humbug, says the PM about death threats to (predominantly female) MPs. Now Jo Swinson, Liberal Democrat leader, has reported threats to her 5 year old daughter. The macho posturing of Brexiteers and the constant ramping up of language has normalised this kind of behaviour. Female MP after female MP pleaded with Johnson to tone it down, but his response was to dial it up even more. I asked the Leavers here what they think of it. I doubt they will condemn it, since he heads their team, and everything he does is justified in their eyes as long as he continues to head their team.

[Furunculus]

What do the Leavers think of this?

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/sta...217845248?s=19

i agree with it to the limited degree that a relationship can be drawn between a woman who died in a political campaign and implementing the decision of that campaign.

i find the portrayal of martydom quite distasteful, not least because i find the manufactured outrage deeply unpleasant.

it's commentary LauraK's quoted above that is inflammatory and inaccurate. The PM didn't break any law. He acted unlawfully in the view of judges, who interpreted the common law in a new and novel way, that even the high court disagreed with.

Humbug, says the PM about death threats to (predominantly female) MPs. Now Jo Swinson, Liberal Democrat leader, has reported threats to her 5 year old daughter. The macho posturing of Brexiteers and the constant ramping up of language has normalised this kind of behaviour. Female MP after female MP pleaded with Johnson to tone it down, but his response was to dial it up even more. I asked the Leavers here what they think of it. I doubt they will condemn it, since he heads their team, and everything he does is justified in their eyes as long as he continues to head their team.

^ manufactured outrage ^

ranks alongside calls for bozza to be "decapitated", to let him "swing in the wind", and tory MP's to "be lynched". all part and parcel of an adversarial political system and of little operational import. MP's complaining about the use of the term "surrender act" are wasting valuable oxygen.

[Pannonian]

Sample letter.

It was rather prophetic that Boris Johnson should say 'I would rather be found dead in a ditch'. This is what will happen to those who do not deliver Brexit

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Everyone knows it's to do with Brexit, but the court's ruling sidesteps it by looking purely at the government's given reasoning, which is to prepare a Queen's speech. It has never taken anywhere near 5 weeks in the past, and the evidence given by the government does not support taking this long. So using the government's own reasoning, the only explanation is that the government is stopping Parliament from its role of oversight. Which, unlike your hypothetical argument, is both real and current, and as great an abuse of power as it gets in our constitution. What the government has done is both unprecedented, and unsupported by law. To allow it is to tacitly support it. Thus the Supreme Court did not allow it. The government should follow convention, and if it breaks convention and lies about it, then its actions must be nullified, not allowed. Unless, of course, you take the view that the government is above law and not bound by it.

I'm afraid you've oversteppped here. Like the power to call elections at any time (prior to 2011) the power to Prorogue can, and has, been used for political ends.

https://researchbriefings.parliament...mmary/CBP-8589

https://researchbriefings.parliament.../LLN-2019-0111

Prior to 1931 it was not unusual for Parliament to be prorogued for more than two months - the last lengthy prorogation NOT before a generation election was 87 days.

[Pannonian]

I'm afraid you've oversteppped here. Like the power to call elections at any time (prior to 2011) the power to Prorogue can, and has, been used for political ends.

https://researchbriefings.parliament...mmary/CBP-8589

https://researchbriefings.parliament.../LLN-2019-0111

Prior to 1931 it was not unusual for Parliament to be prorogued for more than two months - the last lengthy prorogation NOT before a generation election was 87 days.

So why did they settle on 5 weeks?

BTW, what did you make of the PM's performance yesterday? Did you agree with his assessment of the MPs' fears as humbug? Do you agree with him that the best way of remembering Jo Cox is to get Brexit done?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

BTW, what did you make of the PM's performance yesterday? Did you agree with his assessment of the MPs' fears as humbug? Do you agree with him that the best way of remembering Jo Cox is to get Brexit done?

Not really, no.

[Greyblades]

There is a certain sadness in that they are rendering meaningless the vote that she was murdered while campaigning for one side.

[Pannonian]

There is a certain sadness in that they are rendering meaningless the vote that she was murdered while campaigning for one side.

Are you deliberately leaving out the fact that she was campaigning for Remaining when someone murdered her for campaigning to Remain, citing arguments spouted by the Leave campaign? That the MPs asking the PM to tone it down include her friends, and the MP who replaced her. That one of those MPs showed a recent death threat she received that directly cited the PM. That another MP revealed that her 5 year old daughter also received a death threat. The MPs receiving death threats are predominantly female, and those issuing death threats are predominantly in favour of Leave.

Do you think that the best way of solving these threats is to pass Brexit?

Edit: one of the above MPs had her office attacked today.

[Pannonian]

"the Prime Minister may be losing control of his behavior because he’s coming “under intense pressure from the people who have invested billions in shorting the £ & British economy for a no deal Brexit”

- Rachel Johnson

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Are you deliberately leaving out the fact that she was campaigning for Remaining when someone murdered her for campaigning to Remain, citing arguments spouted by the Leave campaign? That the MPs asking the PM to tone it down include her friends, and the MP who replaced her. That one of those MPs showed a recent death threat she received that directly cited the PM. That another MP revealed that her 5 year old daughter also received a death threat. The MPs receiving death threats are predominantly female, and those issuing death threats are predominantly in favour of Leave.

Do you think that the best way of solving these threats is to pass Brexit?

Edit: one of the above MPs had her office attacked today.

None of which we're condoning - because we're concerned with her actual death during the campaign - not point-scoring.