Macedonia and Greece vow to solve decades-old name dispute

[ConjurerDragon]

Everyone is free to identify however he wants.

Everyone? So you think the practice of locking people up and medically treat those who identify as the Emperor of China or Napoleon is an overreaction of society?

If the people of FYROM feel as Macedonians, then they are free to do so, especially considering that they have officially and constitutionally rejected irredentism.

Yes. Sure. Everone rejects irredentism. That is - until the time that suddenly a state has changed and become more authoritarian and needs to distract from interior problems and then just happens to have "claims" or "ancient divided homelands" under the oppressive occupation of clearly evil whatever-ists that are the enemy at the time.

Just look at China and how the communists there keep on claiming areas that once belonged to the manchurian Quing-Empire. Next those Chinese claim that the mongolian Yuan-Dynasty was not a foreign invader ruling China but a chinese Dynasty and all mongolian lands should be united under their benevolent rulership again. That is after they secured the Spratley Islands in the south chinese sea. Really hard to say that those islands are not chinese when they are in the so named "south China" sea...

They are not brainwashed, opposition to Bulgarian identity existed even during the Ottoman times, check Sandanski for example.

The guy who started as a bulgarian freedomfighter against ottoman oppression who cooperated with the Young Turks and who was a member of an extremist minority of people who wanted a USSR like balkans in which Macedonia would be a politically autonomous entity without claiming that they were ethnically something else than Bulgarians?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yane_S...ki#Controversy

When Bulgarians oppressed them in WWII, it's reasonable to expect that any Bulgarian sympathies that might have existed disappeared.
Also, your original argument about Greece's allegedly justified insecurity was that all most of its neighbors invaded in the past, regardless of any name disputes, so I ask again:
Should France be worried about Spain, Italy, Germany, Switzerland and Belgium?

Sure - IF those nowadays friends and allys at one point in the future should no longer be allies and at that time should start to demand the use "Atrecht" instead of Arras or claim that Belgium has to rule from Ryssel (Lille) to Brüssel (Brussels), yes then France should be worried that some lunatics up there are up to something strange.
And if, in a hypothetical future where the EU and NATO do no longer unite both countries, some catalan/spanish politicians would start naming the Rousillon "Northern Catalonia", german politicians Haut-Alsace "Elsaß-Lothringen" and italian politicians murmur about Nizza/Nice then yes, I could see the french politely pointing out that those areas have french names and no longer a connection that should be used for irredentist dreams.

The difference is that Macedonia while it is a candidate for both, is not yet part of the EU and NATO. And I can understand that Greece would block their entry until their issue has been solved. After all we no longer have the Cold War and Turkey being too useful in that time to deny them entry into NATO.

[Gilrandir]

Sure - IF those nowadays friends and allys at one point in the future should no longer be allies and at that time should start to demand the use "Atrecht" instead of Arras or claim that Belgium has to rule from Ryssel (Lille) to Brüssel (Brussels), yes then France should be worried that some lunatics up there are up to something strange.
And if, in a hypothetical future where the EU and NATO do no longer unite both countries, some catalan/spanish politicians would start naming the Rousillon "Northern Catalonia", german politicians Haut-Alsace "Elsaß-Lothringen" and italian politicians murmur about Nizza/Nice then yes, I could see the french politely pointing out that those areas have french names and no longer a connection that should be used for irredentist dreams.

The difference is that Macedonia while it is a candidate for both, is not yet part of the EU and NATO. And I can understand that Greece would block their entry until their issue has been solved. After all we no longer have the Cold War and Turkey being too useful in that time to deny them entry into NATO.

It is a natural thing for places and cities situated near the border to have names in different languages. Like in Südtirol. But it doesn't mean that Italy has to worry about Austria voicing its claim to it.

[spmetla]

There is still a Südtirol 'freedom' movement:
http://www.suedtiroler-freiheit.com/...edom-movement/

The South-Tyrolean
Freedom Movement – Free Alliance for South-Tyrol “SÜD-TIROLER FREIHEIT – Freies Bündnis für Tirol” is a liberal-patriotic alliance which claims the right of self-determination for the South-Tyrolean people.

Our country has been occupied since 1918 by the Italian central government but our resistance against this injustice still persists. Approximately 350.000 German-speaking Tyroleans live in this annexed area continuing their struggle to keep alive their traditions and customs, but it is a challenge to maintain our cultural heritage in a foreign national state. Moreover Italy is on the verge of bankruptcy, and even our very rich region suffers greatly because of the economic inability of the Italian central government. From our point of view the only way to remain a prosperous region is to separate from the Italian national state.

As for Austria, it still does continue to meddle in the politics of Südtirol:
https://www.ft.com/content/c4d5ef34-...9-0191e45377ec

Austria’s new coalition government, which includes the far-right Freedom party, has angered politicians in Rome with plans to offer citizenship to people living in the South Tyrol region of north Italy.

Sebastian Kurz, who became Austrian chancellor on Monday, said he would consult with the country’s southern neighbour over the move, adding that his relations with Italy were “excellent”.

However, the idea, inserted into the government’s programme at the Freedom party’s request, raised immediate concerns from Italian government officials.

“What we are hearing today from Vienna is not European music but one of nationalist closure,” Benedetto Della Vedova, undersecretary in the foreign ministry, wrote on Facebook. Angelino Alfano, Italy’s foreign minister, warned that the “delicate” issue should be treated “in terms that are coherent with our history”.

The clash served as an early warning of the possible tensions created by the entry into the Austrian government of the fiercely nationalist Freedom party.

Just like with the issue of the Irish border and Northern Ireland the migrant crisis has exasperated the issue of Südtirol. When Austria reintroduced border checks on the Italian border it reopened the reality to those in Südtirol that they were very much part of Italy despite the open EU borders making that less of an issue.

[ConjurerDragon]

It is a natural thing for places and cities situated near the border to have names in different languages. Like in Südtirol. But it doesn't mean that Italy has to worry about Austria voicing its claim to it.

You just omitted 2/3rds of my post you quoted. I do not see the use of Südtirol as a problem as long as Italy, Austria and Germany are all in the EU and NATO and guarantee each others borders. Only, as I already wrote, if that would be not the case anymore and e.g. the nationalist movements in Austria and Germany gain more votes and those politians consciously used "Südtirol" to imply that the area is just the southern tip of Tyrol (the one in Austria) and belongs to the other side of the border - then I could see Italy get worried.

Just like Tyrol Macedonia is split by a border and depending on who uses that name the state on the other side of the border would not be amused.

As you have Ukraine as location what about Russians using names like "little Russia" instead of Ukraine that imply that Ukraine is not really a state of it’s own but a part of the triunion of Great Russians, White Russians and Little Russians? I mean the Ukraine already has seen what can happen if a neighbour sees part of another state as part of his own...

[Gilrandir]

You just omitted 2/3rds of my post you quoted. I do not see the use of Südtirol as a problem as long as Italy, Austria and Germany are all in the EU and NATO and guarantee each others borders. Only, as I already wrote, if that would be not the case anymore and e.g. the nationalist movements in Austria and Germany gain more votes and those politians consciously used "Südtirol" to imply that the area is just the southern tip of Tyrol (the one in Austria) and belongs to the other side of the border - then I could see Italy get worried.

Just like Tyrol Macedonia is split by a border and depending on who uses that name the state on the other side of the border would not be amused.

As you have Ukraine as location what about Russians using names like "little Russia" instead of Ukraine that imply that Ukraine is not really a state of it’s own but a part of the triunion of Great Russians, White Russians and Little Russians? I mean the Ukraine already has seen what can happen if a neighbour sees part of another state as part of his own...

Russia may use the name of "Little Russia" with a derogatory purpose INSTEAD of the modern/real name (Ukraine). Macedonia doesn't have any other name, Südtirol as a rule has two names for its locations. That is why I don't see a problem in parallel using of different lanuage names for places with an ethnically/linguistically mixed population.