Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
The leftist view on things isn't all that stupid, it's just that they want things too fast, there is nothing wrong with the logic of it
It's at times like these when you seem most confounding and frustrating to interpretation, Fragony.

Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
Other than that bit about it being contrary to demonstrated human nature throughout recorded history. Perhaps our nature is changing/will change. Absent that the radiant future is no more likely of success than Canute's commands to the tide.
The one essential problem (obversely, also a boon) with socialism is that it isn't really a system of government, or a policy platform, but a set of values. To make a comprehensive socialism real almost feels like trying to generate a black hole, and then keep it stable indefinitely.

The Keynesian answer has always been paternalistic technocratic managerialism, and I would argue this approach has produced some of the best results of the past century that we enjoy today. Unfortunately, it loses its luster by the day. No one really likes statism anymore; it's plumped for partisan ends, sure, but it's too polarized by chauvinisms to be respected.

So what's for us but aspiration or the "dirty wall"? And you should think about it. Radicalism certainly can't get anywhere salutary without a loyal opposition.