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Thread: The Snake Eats it's Tail?

  1. #1

    Default The Snake Eats it's Tail?

    The head of U.S. forces in Afghanistan alleges that Russia is providing arms to the Taliban.
    If true, then we've come full circle; the U.S. supported the mujahedin against Soviet forces in Afghanistan.
    It makes sense; no clue if it's true:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43500299

    In any case it does not make one optimistic about a quick wind up of America's longest war.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

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  2. #2
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Snake Eats it's Tail?

    Not really sure what Russia would have to gain from Taliban controlled Afghanistan. Weird if true.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Snake Eats it's Tail?

    Afghanistan is where Empires go to turn power into corpses.

    That Russia for probably years has viewed this as a good way to blunt the might of the USA is almost a certainty. And there are probably others, as - why not?

    There's a good chance Pakistan (who only gets subsidies as long as there's a problem to correct), China (ensures the nutters go West from their turbulent provinces and keeps the USA's focus away from reef building.

    Giving weapons to jihadists is probably the cheapest and least risky way of attacking your enemies. And by doing it in Afghanistan it forces the USA to fight at the end of an extremely long logistics road which only adds to the cost. In Syria there is Israel's extremely efficient - not to mention ruthless - intelligence network which will destroy any weaponry they find and view collateral damage as something that happens. Who will help the Yanks up the mountains? The locals??!?

    Equally, none of the other players want America to "win" or "loose" since then they'd leave - and many of the more zealous fighters will start looking for the next battleground. A nice long stalemate where the aid is carefully balanced to what the USA does to ensure lots of time, money and materiel is wasted or at least tied down.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
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  4. #4
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Snake Eats it's Tail?

    It need not even be government action. There are any number of arms suppliers in the 'stans and elsewhere who will supply arms to those who will pay. Russia has had corruption problems for years, and some of the former Soviet territories are even worse.

    All Russia need do is make little or no effort to stop it...
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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  5. #5

    Default Re: The Snake Eats it's Tail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    It need not even be government action. There are any number of arms suppliers in the 'stans and elsewhere who will supply arms to those who will pay. Russia has had corruption problems for years, and some of the former Soviet territories are even worse.

    All Russia need do is make little or no effort to stop it...
    If true (and it probably is) it's nice to see budding entrepreneurs getting a "leg up" in Russia
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Snake Eats it's Tail?

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Afghanistan is where Empires go to turn power into corpses.

    That Russia for probably years has viewed this as a good way to blunt the might of the USA is almost a certainty. And there are probably others, as - why not?

    There's a good chance Pakistan (who only gets subsidies as long as there's a problem to correct), China (ensures the nutters go West from their turbulent provinces and keeps the USA's focus away from reef building.

    Giving weapons to jihadists is probably the cheapest and least risky way of attacking your enemies. And by doing it in Afghanistan it forces the USA to fight at the end of an extremely long logistics road which only adds to the cost. In Syria there is Israel's extremely efficient - not to mention ruthless - intelligence network which will destroy any weaponry they find and view collateral damage as something that happens. Who will help the Yanks up the mountains? The locals??!?

    Equally, none of the other players want America to "win" or "loose" since then they'd leave - and many of the more zealous fighters will start looking for the next battleground. A nice long stalemate where the aid is carefully balanced to what the USA does to ensure lots of time, money and materiel is wasted or at least tied down.

    Why would China feel more comfortable with the United States maintaining forward bases and supply lines on their western borders?


  7. #7
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Snake Eats it's Tail?

    Because in these bases they're constantly getting shot at, getting their equipment and morale eroded by the day and need to negotiate with Pakistan or Russia to get supplies in. They are not an asset, they are a cost - everyone knows they are there. If they wanted to get intel they'd use satellites and aircraft / drones which were far more hidden and easier to run.

    Better that than naval bases in the Pacific.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  8. #8
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Snake Eats it's Tail?

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Because in these bases they're constantly getting shot at, getting their equipment and morale eroded by the day and need to negotiate with Pakistan or Russia to get supplies in. They are not an asset, they are a cost - everyone knows they are there. If they wanted to get intel they'd use satellites and aircraft / drones which were far more hidden and easier to run.

    Better that than naval bases in the Pacific.

    As I understand it, some of those bases in the 'stans etc. are where the drones are based. The ones in the 'stans were always most useful as air staging bases. They weren't positioned to be able to support ground forces in number.

    From what I have read about China and the old Silk Road, China's attempts to assert hegemony over the old route are mostly economic and diplomatic. Having someone else assist the physical protection/enhance stability at no cost to China is not likely to perturb them. They do NOT see the region shifting to USA satrapy status, and anything else still leaves China's econ/diplo expansion more or less intact.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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