Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
Ah yes. When the Jews were the terrorists. And when the UK was pressured to create the state of Israel. And then after that all the surrounding countries attacked.Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
You seee, the most pertinent bit you wrote was "wrapping up". As in ended. As in they had their own destiny. Independence if you like.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
Yet the irony of all this is that Palestinians and Israelis are actually the same people Genetically...
Their only difference is their Religion and spoken Language.
And I am not referring to the relation between Hebrews and Arabs both being part of what we refer to as Semitic groups. Both are Semites.
But rather being part of the same Semitic Group.
That is ladies and gents the sad sad thing about it all.
In my view, just like in many countries today people of different ethnic origins and religions and spoken languages live in harmony and peace (Multicultural societies) same can happen in Israel.
Why can't Israel be multicultural open and progressive?
A one state solution could be possible with proper openness vision and a couple of generations of education.
It is in my view, the only Humane solution to this problem.
All other options are inhumane, and contrary to Human Rights. Posting areference to what I am stating here..and you can look it up yourselves if you like too. Plenty of results.
https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-...oots-1.5411201
Oh the Irony...
Last edited by Suraknar; 03-16-2018 at 08:07.
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Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
Why does there have to be a solution, nobody is going to change it's mind
Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
Here we go again about genetics, iheritance, history and ancient names...
Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
Palestinians and Israeli's are the same from the person who says Greeks and Macedonians are different.
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Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
Unfortunately this is a major oversimplification. Its more than just being multicultural and progressive. As someone who has spent a good amount of time in Israel, areas of it are actually pretty progressive and multicultural, like Tel Aviv. Gay pride parades, people of many different cultures getting along just fine. Its whats under the surface which is the issue.
Lets consider these two perspectives:
Take your average Israeli. Grows up learning about the various wars with the surrounding Arab states. Knows that most Arabs arent such big fans of Israel, and by extension, Jews in general. Learns about the Holocaust and from that the intrinsic need for the Jewish people to have a home to call their own. They grow up with regular attacks occurring by Palestinians such as the one that happened today. So this breeds a natural suspicion of Palestinians. There are stories of both sides reaching out to help each other, like this story from back in 2015, but they are few and far between. Your average Israeli doesnt see an attack on soldiers in the West Bank as Palestinians defending their land, they see it as terrorists attacking people who keep the terrorists at bay. So this breeds more hostility, and a willingness to keep the boot on the neck of the Palestinians as long as it keeps preventing the more serious attacks. At the same time, the Israeli doesnt understand why the Palestinians cant just stop causing trouble so they can all live in peace. Some see past all the rhetoric of the politicians and actually do want peace though reconciliation. Others just want to see the Palestinians gone. They hate the Palestinians for what they have done, for bringing all this death and destruction. Any pain inflicted on the Palestinians was brought upon themselves for causing trouble in the first place. After all the bloodshed, how can Israel trust the Palestinians ever again? After seeing what happened to Gaza, why should Israel risk a repeat of that in the West Bank?
Now take your average Palestinian. Grows up seeing the heavy hand of Israeli occupation forces, or if in Gaza, the rampant destruction that the Israeli military has wrought. Grows up being taught about the Nakba, which is their term for the 1948 war and the mass exodus of Palestinians (some forced, some willingly) from their lands, turning them into permanent refugees. They see continual Israeli encroachment in the West Bank. The wall, the checkpoints, the concrete barriers and the barbed wire. The world protests, but doesnt actually do anything of substance. A general feeling of hopelessness is only assuaged by token resistance. Whether thats protesting, throwing rocks, attacking soldiers, or launching rockets. Why bother negotiating? They know the Israelis wont budge from their position of strength. Right of return for Palestinians? Forget it. An independent West Bank? Kinda tough with all those settlers there. The list goes on. And the resentment grows. Turns into hatred. Groups like Hamas makes people feel good, like they can still resist Israeli occupation. Even if its futile. Like with the Israelis, some Palestinians do see a brighter future. One where both sides live in peace. But its tough to keep advocating for that when your neighbor gets shot by Israeli security forces while at a protest. Or has their house bulldozed.
So this endless circle of violence continues. Nobody really wants to give more ground in this fight. I think both are going to stick it out until the end. Maybe I'm just jaded but thats how I see this playing out. Unless a miracle happens, like Oslo v2. My hopes for that continually diminish though.
Last edited by Hooahguy; 03-17-2018 at 04:52.
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Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
It is important. Maybe you have been taught to disregard History and rewrite it as you please according to Soviet Model but the rest of the world does like to go by Scientific Evidence.
And in this case it was important to both Palestinians and Jewish, it was even published on Jewish news outlets.
There is nothing wrong with context it helps build bridges, and this is what needs to happen here., Both sides need to start building bridges and find common ground. Genetic evidence is common ground. Why reject it?
Were you referring to me in that statement? If yes, then you misunderstand me. Macedonians are Greeks. And Greeks are Different from the Citizens of FYROM.
I do not disagree with you. And appreciate you insight based on your first hand experience. I visited and lived in many countries in my life, went around the world many times. Unfortunately israel/Palestine was not one of them so I cannot speak form first hand experience.
I offer my opinions from outside and from what I can read in the media, history and the people form there that I talk to etc.
I do understand the difficulties however that you speak of, it is why in my reply above I said it will take a couple of generations (maybe more) of education. Education to learn to live together to stop to hate.
Of course all that can only start if there is actual peace, and IDF soldiers stop having clashes with Palestinians and vice versa..
It does require Leadership initiative...from both sides, and from the people..and the Media...because much of the Hate is being maintained by the media..as evidenced by this story here:
Jews vs Arabs
Worth watching...and maybe just maybe..change will slowly happen...
Last edited by Suraknar; 03-18-2018 at 10:15.
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Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
No one rejects it. But you seem to believe that all the conflicts between modern countries can be solved by referring to history. Something like "You were one people a thousand/some hundred years ago. Why don't you kiss each other and forget everything that divides you". Or "what's the use of trying to reconcile these two nations - they are genetically so different". It doesn't work that way. Modern problems should be solved here and now, without looking back at what was at the time of Alexander or even before. Otherwise the British and the Germans could strike a deal quite easily in 1939 - after all they share a common Saxon heritage.
Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
No, I believe that knowledge and Reason & understanding along with Love and Compassion can help solve problems in today's world. History is part of the Knowledge that can bring about understanding.
Ignoring the lessons of history dooms people to repeat mistakes, exposes people to hate propaganda and removes opportunity for introspection.
We are all one race sharing this planet in the first place and should learn to be united and live in peace, yet in all honesty in a genuine way too.
In other words, even if unity among people is a worthy end to strive for, the ends do not justify the means nevertheless.
The way that we achieve unity matters.
Duke Surak'nar
"Η ΤΑΝ Η ΕΠΙ ΤΑΣ"
From:
Traveled to: Over 70 Countries, most recent:
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Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
If only Israel had had a few overseas possessions, then they could have recruited young Palestinian Arabs into regiments to staff their overseas military.
Well, it worked reasonably well with Scotland once they hit upon the formula. The "young lions" aren't so young or hotheaded when they come home after a ten year hitch...
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Re: How is a two state solution Fair or Equitable to Palestine?
As history shows, people do make mistakes irrespective of the fact if they are aware of history or not. They just think something like "this time it's not gonna be that way".
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