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Thread: Funeral service controversy

  1. #1
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Funeral service controversy

    Preface.

    There are two major Orthodox churches in Ukraine: Ukrainian Orthodox church (of Kyiv Patriarchy) and Ukrainian Orthodox church (of Moscow Patriarchy). The former is not recognized by other Orthodox churches and thus is considered uncanonical and (by Russian Orthodox church and by Ukrainian Orthodox church of Moscow Patriarchy) heretic/schismatic. But many people who are not very ardent believers just go to the nearest church (when they have a mind to) being very often unaware to what Orthodox confession it belongs.

    The event.

    About a month ago in Zaporizhya a young man went out of the door of a high rise building with a baby carriage in which he was taking his two-year-old son (baptized in the church of Kyiv patriarchy) for a walk. Unfortunately, a suicide hurtled down from on high and fell straight on the carriage killing not only himself but the baby as well.

    The parents invited a priest from the nearest church (where his older sister had been baptized) to perform the funeral service over the baby. The priest of Moscow patriarchy came and after learning that the child had being baptized in "the schismatic church" he refused to perform the service. In vain did the distraught parent entreat him to do it. They had to stop the funeral to fetch the priest of Kyiv Orthodox church. Later when the Moscow church bishop learned about it he approved his subordinate's behavior. Many people were indignant at that and started bringing baby toys to the church where the priest works.

    So my question is: was the priest right in refusing to perform the service over a "pagan/schismatic" or should his Christian feelings have prevailed over his loyalty to canons?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
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  2. #2
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funeral service controversy

    The sad thing about that is baby dying.

    I will refrain from expressing my personal opinion about organized religion and its institutions, as I would have to use the language I find distasteful.

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  3. #3
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funeral service controversy

    My signature covers this.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funeral service controversy

    In Russia, God doesn't love all babies?

    A perfect example for how suicide also hurts others though...


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  5. #5

    Default Re: Funeral service controversy

    Not sure what to say.

    Not gonna link it, but there is a vid/gif of an Eastern European couple hanging around by an apartment tower with a bottle of wine, when a man slams into the pavement with the upper half of his body on fire. The woman flees immediately. The man makes to bolt, but then runs back to grab the wine as the body continues to burn.

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  6. #6
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funeral service controversy

    Priest could have called a priest from their church, he's a jerk

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    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funeral service controversy

    Priests acting like pricks, colour me surprised. I hope a secular funeral is allowed in Ukraine, thanks to the Soviet heritage. Out of curiosity, do both churches use the Julian calendar? If they do, how do they bury their bishops?
    Last edited by Crandar; 03-15-2018 at 11:06.

  8. #8
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funeral service controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Priest could have called a priest from their church, he's a jerk
    The priests of Moscow patriarchy regard their counterparts from Kyiv patriarchy as heretics. So he would never go to a heretic and ask him anything. What he could have done, though, was to enquire about the boy's confession BEFORE coming to the funeral and refusing to come instead of acting as he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    Priests acting like pricks, colour me surprised. I hope a secular funeral is allowed in Ukraine, thanks to the Soviet heritage.
    Any funeral will do. Depends on the family and the wish of the deceased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    Out of curiosity, do both churches use the Julian calendar? If they do, how do they bury their bishops?
    As for bishops, I have no idea. As for difference between churches, it is only in the language of the service (Ukrainian for Kyiv patriarchy and Old Church Slavonic for Moscow patriarchy) and in subordination which results in different politicies pursued by either. The Moscow one is part and parcel of Russian orthodox church so they follow orders given from Moscow. They often glorify Putin, pray for unity with Russia, recognize Crimea as a part of Russia and refuse to perform funeral services over Ukrainian army soldiers killed in Donbas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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