Hearthstone Mafia [Concluded]

[Csargo]

Logic, I'm willing to entertain the notion that Kage could be mafia, but not the one that I'm his partner for obvious reasons. Could you present a feasible alternative?

Csargo, you're given a gun with one shot. Who do you kill?

Kage I think at this point.

My PoE is something like this atm:

Csargo
Sooh
Logic
Manasi
Dp101/GH
Kage

[Csargo]

I'd put you higher than Dp101 purely because I can get a better read on you going forward than I can Dp101.

I feel fairly good about Logic currently, because his most recent stuff is pretty inline with what I remember from other games. I had him way lower initially, but his current engagement/posts have been excellent imo.

Manasi feels good at this point.

I think I'm usually pretty good at reading you, but that's probably wrong. You going along with the Barto vote so easily sort of put me off a bit. Nothing you've done since has raised my read of you all that much.

Dp101 is sort of meh hard to gauge with so little coming out from him.

Kage's summary post was odd to me, but that seems to be par for the course for D1 lists. Thought the Barto push was weird, I clearly wasn't a fan.

Responding to Manasi's query. I'm not convinced that Kage did a whole lot of legwork in the day-phase, but maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees.

I think Logic's quote sums up my thoughts on Kage pretty well.

[Kagemusha]

Thank you for the ISO Logic. Like i said earlier if you are scum. You are playing extremely well. Your process seems very good, but conclusion is wrong. You build a case against me based on connection with GH, which you seem to be doubting very much in your Iso. So you seem to be arriving into wrong conclusion with genuine thought process, unlike Manasi who seems to be trying to use momentum in order to push who she wants to be lynched. I want to hear from the only confirmed townie aka Sooh before pushing what i have in mind.

[Sooh]

Thank you for the ISO Logic. Like i said earlier if you are scum. You are playing extremely well. Your process seems very good, but conclusion is wrong. You build a case against me based on connection with GH, which you seem to be doubting very much in your Iso. So you seem to be arriving into wrong conclusion with genuine thought process, unlike Manasi who seems to be trying to use momentum in order to push who she wants to be lynched. I want to hear from the only confirmed townie aka Sooh before pushing what i have in mind.

The more I read this the less I like it.

When I read that it sounds like "I don't want to make any pushes on my own, but I'll look for whoever the clear person pushes and I'll say that I agree with one of those, especially if one isn't on my team"

[Kagemusha]

The more I read this the less I like it.

When I read that it sounds like "I don't want to make any pushes on my own, but I'll look for whoever the clear person pushes and I'll say that I agree with one of those, especially if one isn't on my team"

Sooh. If Csargo is scum. I was the first person to see that. I made the push towards Barto, but i was wrong. How can you accuse me of not wanting to make my own cases when that is the exact thing i have been doing the whole game. And that is the exact same thing i do every time i play these games. It is quite frustrating being called weird, intense and ..., but that i can understand, but not wanting to make my own cases. That is just blatantly wrong. Why i wanted to wait for you was because i did not want to turn this game more into direction it was going, aka people being lazy and not going through their own process.

[Kagemusha]

I am staunch believer of the KISS principle. If you have the most simple answer to a dilemma use it. Only if the solution is not working, find more complicated one. At this point lynching Csargo should be a no brainer. The mathematics are on the town side. No matter if GH was pulling a straight forward stupid stunt as a scum now and fake claiming a role. The town would still get a scum and afterwards the numbers would be at towns side.

[Sooh]

I still want to hear from GH regarding his selection of tracking Csargo. I also want to hear from Csargo who appear to have been stunned by this.

[Manasi]

Sooh. If Csargo is scum. I was the first person to see that. I made the push towards Barto, but i was wrong. How can you accuse me of not wanting to make my own cases when that is the exact thing i have been doing the whole game. And that is the exact same thing i do every time i play these games. It is quite frustrating being called weird, intense and ..., but that i can understand, but not wanting to make my own cases. That is just blatantly wrong. Why i wanted to wait for you was because i did not want to turn this game more into direction it was going, aka people being lazy and not going through their own process.

This seems like exactly what you're doing in continuing to wait for Sooh lmao.

[Kagemusha]

This seems like exactly what you're doing in continuing to wait for Sooh lmao.

And this is exactly what you have been doing the entire game. Evading and not answering anything. Please do elaboarete to my question before. I would really appreciate that.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'd put you higher than Dp101 purely because I can get a better read on you going forward than I can Dp101.

I feel fairly good about Logic currently, because his most recent stuff is pretty inline with what I remember from other games. I had him way lower initially, but his current engagement/posts have been excellent imo.

Manasi feels good at this point.

I think I'm usually pretty good at reading you, but that's probably wrong. You going along with the Barto vote so easily sort of put me off a bit. Nothing you've done since has raised my read of you all that much.

Dp101 is sort of meh hard to gauge with so little coming out from him.

Kage's summary post was odd to me, but that seems to be par for the course for D1 lists. Thought the Barto push was weird, I clearly wasn't a fan.



I think Logic's quote sums up my thoughts on Kage pretty well.

Ok, thanks.

So overall it would be safe to say that you don't really have a particularly strong scumread on Kage but he's still a bit worse-looking than everyone else?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Here's Dp's full amount of posts since subbing in:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hi people! At school currently will be more active once I get home.

I agree with this pretty strongly.

(re: Manasi thinking Kage's early wall was suspicious and weird)

I sort of like this post, a decent amount.

(re: my early takes on Csargo and Sooh being town and Kage possibly being mafia)

N1

This is what happens when I forget about things. I wasn’t keeping track of the time and kept putting this game off, and really wasn’t thinking at all. Sorry. I guess I’ll read back over what I missed

This is generally the impression I get from the thread overall btw. Honestly only people I feel confident townreading are Csargo and Manasi.

re: Csargo saying there hasn't been much discourse going on

Both are obviously engaged with the game and feel like they are genuinely interested in solving the game, rather than just going through the motions.

responding to Kage about his townreads on Csargo and Manasi

I mean I think his posting style is bizarre and I don’t understand it, but that’s been true any time I’ve played with him, so not really sure if I know how to read him.

responding to Manasi directly asking him for his take on Kage

Yeah I’ve been sort of exhausted the last couple of days and will try to step it up a little activity-wise here. It’s just hard to want to go post in a game if it seems like most other people aren’t there either.

responding to Manasi about the game being low-activity

This post is odd and wolfy, imo. Once I recall voting format I might put one here.

responding to Kage asking Manasi why she's so aggressive

Also you know, once it’s day, it’s been so long since I’ve played a game with nightchat that I had forgotten it wasn’t day.

Is fine, I haven’t been around enough to justify being put in posts.

responding to Manasi about how she left Dp out of her reads.

I don't think this is town Dp. I just don't. I get that he's rusty. I get that he's been super busy IRL. I also don't care. The thing I look for with Dp is that super pure tone. That's not a feature that really needs extended immersion in the game to make itself known, like Logic's effort for example. It just naturally rises to the surface. And it hasn't here.

[Dp101]

Catching up, this post worries me, a lot.

Here's Dp's full amount of posts since subbing in:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(re: Manasi thinking Kage's early wall was suspicious and weird)


(re: my early takes on Csargo and Sooh being town and Kage possibly being mafia)

N1




re: Csargo saying there hasn't been much discourse going on


responding to Kage about his townreads on Csargo and Manasi


responding to Manasi directly asking him for his take on Kage


responding to Manasi about the game being low-activity


responding to Kage asking Manasi why she's so aggressive




responding to Manasi about how she left Dp out of her reads.

I don't think this is town Dp. I just don't. I get that he's rusty. I get that he's been super busy IRL. I also don't care. The thing I look for with Dp is that super pure tone. That's not a feature that really needs extended immersion in the game to make itself known, like Logic's effort for example. It just naturally rises to the surface. And it hasn't here.

I find this level of aggression from you extremely... unsettling. You are expecting me to be completely pure in tone, and also somehow think that I can get that even while not being fully in thread? Like, imo, the main thing that good tone stems from is being extremely in-sync with how the thread is feeling, and that's near-impossible to have while not being around that much. I agree that my participation here has been spotty at best, and I did not anticipate being quite this rusty when I returned to the game. Honestly the "let's throw DP under the bus 100% with complete certainty and expect him to do things that he can't/doesn't (such as have good tone while not being around)" feels extremely reminiscent of my last org game with you as scum.

[Kagemusha]

By the way. Where is Manasi? Were you not frustrated about how slow the game was and wanted activity, but disappeared yourself. Why?

Two of my scum reads flipped town.

Cya.

So because you were twice wrong it makes you right third time? Dont be lazy and instead make a case.

So far i see you copying what logic said earlier. Lazy, thus scummy.

Could you please share your analyze at the players, as i cant get pretty much anything from your posts?

[Manasi]

By the way. Where is Manasi? Were you not frustrated about how slow the game was and wanted activity, but disappeared yourself. Why?





Could you please share your analyze at the players, as i cant get pretty much anything from your posts?

Yeah give me a second. I've been really busy and tried posting last night on mobile but the site loaded horribly for me so I just went to sleep.

[Logic]

So, I can't shake help but shake the feeling that GH and Kage are teamed, but here is the biggest evidence AGAINST the theory that I can find:
------------------------------------------------------------
Day One, Final Tally

3 El Barto (Montmorency, Kagemusha, GeneralHankerchief)

2 Montmorency (Dp101/Snerk, Manasi)
2 Dp101 (Logic, Csargo)

1 Manasi (El Barto)

Not Voting: Sooh
------------------------------------------------------------
There is no good reason I can think of for both scum to be on a D1 wagon mislynch and kill the only other person on the same wagon the following night. I'll have to ISO GH next.

[Csargo]

Ok, thanks.

So overall it would be safe to say that you don't really have a particularly strong scumread on Kage but he's still a bit worse-looking than everyone else?

Yeah, I don't have a Manasi level scumread on him, but he's done enough in my mind that he's worthy of being at the bottom of my list imo.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, I don't have a Manasi level scumread on him, but he's done enough in my mind that he's worthy of being at the bottom of my list imo.

Speaking of Manasi, can you elaborate your take on her? Your read of her in your earlier main post was the shortest by far, just wondered if there was anything more.

[Csargo]

Speaking of Manasi, can you elaborate your take on her? Your read of her in your earlier main post was the shortest by far, just wondered if there was anything more.

Not really. I find it pretty hard to read Manasi most of the time. I felt the disillusionment with the state of the game seemed genuine, I share the same sentiment to a degree, but that seemed townie to me at least. Other than that I've just gotten good vibes from her posts, the content has been good I've thought as well. It's probably more of a gut read than anything else honestly.

What do you think of her so far?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Not really. I find it pretty hard to read Manasi most of the time. I felt the disillusionment with the state of the game seemed genuine, I share the same sentiment to a degree, but that seemed townie to me at least. Other than that I've just gotten good vibes from her posts, the content has been good I've thought as well. It's probably more of a gut read than anything else honestly.

What do you think of her so far?

I'm coming around more and more to Kage being town, so a lot of folks are dropping for me as a consequence and Manasi is one of the biggest droppers. Yeah she looked good but the more I think about it, the disillusionment thing is reasonably easy to fake and something that's not necessarily indicative of her alignment. She could just have been excited to play a game on the Org in this particular environment and have been ready to pull the wool over people like Monty's and my eyes.

[Dp101]

Not really. I find it pretty hard to read Manasi most of the time. I felt the disillusionment with the state of the game seemed genuine, I share the same sentiment to a degree, but that seemed townie to me at least. Other than that I've just gotten good vibes from her posts, the content has been good I've thought as well. It's probably more of a gut read than anything else honestly.

What do you think of her so far?

I feel like this is... probably something that's said more towards a wolf than a villager? Like, it feels like Csargo was internally going "ok, time to talk about a consensus town, this shouldn't be too hard", and then thought he could get away with saying a fair amount of vague good-sounding things that are similar to what others have said, relying on the fact that people are mostly already agreeing as a way to get out of having to fake too much work. If Manasi was scum with csargo here, I'd expect either a. continuing the "I can't really read manasi" thing throughout the post rather than trying to construct a townread that might link them together, or b. having more specific reasons to give the townread rather than just going with the flow. To expand on the latter option, if I thought I was fairly secure and had an opportunity to talk about a scumbuddy who was doing well, I'd emphasise what has been getting them townread as hard as I can, in order to try and support them more and hopefully promote us as a towncore. Instead, there's this weird non-specific read.

[Dp101]

I'd put you higher than Dp101 purely because I can get a better read on you going forward than I can Dp101.

I feel fairly good about Logic currently, because his most recent stuff is pretty inline with what I remember from other games. I had him way lower initially, but his current engagement/posts have been excellent imo.

Manasi feels good at this point.

I think I'm usually pretty good at reading you, but that's probably wrong. You going along with the Barto vote so easily sort of put me off a bit. Nothing you've done since has raised my read of you all that much.

Dp101 is sort of meh hard to gauge with so little coming out from him.

Kage's summary post was odd to me, but that seems to be par for the course for D1 lists. Thought the Barto push was weird, I clearly wasn't a fan.



I think Logic's quote sums up my thoughts on Kage pretty well.

Moar attempted spew-reading attempts, since I never do this and need to get better at it, and the play is imo clearer if GH is lying so I see more value in trying to catch the scum after Csargo:

The logic read feels somewhat like providing support to a scumbuddy who has improved dramatically and trying to push that point into people's heads. If logic was town here, I feel like scum!csargo would be focussing on lacklustre prior actions rather than trying to paint a picture of improvement.

Vague Manasi read is *noted*, but not sure exactly what it means.

Tries to discredit kage via logic, in a way that strikes me as honestly weird regardless of alignment. Leaving aside the part where it's honestly fairly wrong, I'm not sure what incentive there is as either alignment to make this push based off of logic's. This would make town!logic somewhat more likely, but it's also possible that this is a wolf-team coordinating somewhat clumsily to push a mislynch (although why they wouldn't go on me is a mystery to me).

[Dp101]

Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.

[Kagemusha]

Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.

Vote Csargo. GH has claimed to be some sort of tracker/ detective and painted Csargo scum. Its the absolutely best we have so far. If Csargo does not flip scum. We will lynch GH next.

[Manasi]

Kage I think at this point.

My PoE is something like this atm:

Csargo
Sooh
Logic
Manasi
Dp101/GH
Kage

Does Csargo put his partner Dp this low in the POE?

[Manasi]

Not everyone has pushed on Kage fwiw.

Csargo didn't really actually push at all. It's just been myself and Logic.

Half the game.

Math checks out.

[Sooh]

Personally I feel like this Manasi is miles away from scum-Manasi in that previous game.

[Dp101]

Personally I feel like this Manasi is miles away from scum-Manasi in that previous game.

Yeah, that’s the other thing. Even besides the potential post-flip associations, this has been the towniest Manasi I’ve seen in forever, and honestly the most interest I’ve ever seen her have in solving.

[Logic]

Posting from mobile; expect errors.

Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.

I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.

Yeah, that’s the other thing. Even besides the potential post-flip associations, this has been the towniest Manasi I’ve seen in forever, and honestly the most interest I’ve ever seen her have in solving.

I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.

[Logic]

Posting from mobile; expect errors.

I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.



I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.

Clarification to the bolded: I didn't want to sound snarky or condescending, so I added the "hyperbole follows." And as soon as I post it, I think it makes it sound more snarky and condescending. Apologies if that is how you read it. That is not my intent.

Dp, you are skilled, and that post I dislike does not seem like you. That is why I am calling it specifically out.

[Dp101]

Posting from mobile; expect errors.

I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.



I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.

I’m honestly shocked that you think I know what I’m doing. Maybe I haven’t brought it up here much, but my personal opinion of my towngame is that it’s complete garbage. Like, I have never had any amount of confidence in my town game, and if you think this seems not like me (and, especially, not like me enough to vote me over a track result then I just don’t understand you.