Why is There Death and Suffering if God is all Loving

[Gilrandir]

The bible says God originally created a perfect world with no death, sin, disease or suffering. People did not kill each other and animals did not kill each other- man and animals were vegetarian.

So animals sinned and stopped being vegetarian as well?

In a fallen world bad things happen for no other reason than that we live in a fallen imperfect world. When people asked Jesus if the 13 builders in Jerusalem that died was because they sinned. Jesus said no, sometimes bad things happen to good people, the whole creation is under this. So the bible teaches a original perfect creation free of death and suffering as god created it. until sin and separation from him resulted from man's sin.

So however good and righteous you might be you may still suffer because "sometimes bad things happen to good people"? What's the use of being good and righteous then?

If god was on earth in control he would judge us and punish us. Over and over read [exodus Leviticus] God says do not come near me for I am holy and separate from sin lest you die. He does not want to judge us but forgive us, but he is a fully just god who if is all loving perfect and hates sin than he must judge.

So God doesn't want to judge, he wants to forgive, yet he judges?

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,
-exodus 34 7

I have a different information:

Exodus 20:5
"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Deuteronomy 4:23-24
"For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God

Deuteronomy 32:16
"They made Him jealous with strange gods; With abominations they provoked Him to anger

Joshua 24:19
Then Joshua said to the people, "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins.


Generally speaking, proving anything citing Bible is a bad idea for in it one can find such proof to a completely opposite idea.

There is a solution to the problem of evil, just not an *immediate* one (an *immediate* solution would have killed Adam and Eve instantly, thus ending the human race, and all speculation about the problem of evil)
-Shane Cessna Is it Gods Fault

I like it. A person sinned. What should be the solution? A modern Christian would say: make him repent, or show him he was wrong, or scare him with a terrible prospect and thus make him stop sinning. What does "the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness" suggest (according to a Shane Cessna)? Kill him! I like it. What about forgiveness?

So, how could a loving God just sit back and allow all the death and suffering in this world? This question assumes that God hasn’t done anything.

A wrong assumption. It rather assumes he has absolved himself of all responsibility and watches from on high with insouciant nonchalance. And sometimes lets "bad things happen to good people".

In fact, God has done a lot already to solve the problem of evil, and He has promised to do more in the future.

Sounds too much like an election agenda.

Second, the death and suffering that goes on in this life is a powerful reminder that something is wrong with creation, and more than that, something is wrong with the human heart and our relationship to God.

To kill a human to REMIND all others of something? That sure could have been done only by
"the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love".

[I]“If God followed this type of “logic,” then we would live in a bizarre world. Should He temporarily suspend gravity when a person attempts to commit suicide by leaping from a high place, or must He prevent car crashes through any means necessary? Let’s take this a step further. Maybe He should prevent any harm to any person. Perhaps He should suspend gravity whenever a little girl is about to fall down so that she doesn’t scrape up her knee. Should He prevent us from eating food that may not be entirely healthy?

So the world in which someone walks on water or turns water into win or resurrects a corpse is not bizarre? Isn't walking on water somehow inrefering with gravity?

I’m thankful that God doesn’t play by these rules.

I would say he doesn't play by these rules. If he needs a miracle he will work it, logic or no logic, rules or no rules.

[rory_20_uk]

Who said God is all loving? The terrified people who were desperately hoping that if they were flattering he might randomly kill someone else? Hardly a good source. He spent most of the time either showing off whilst committing genocide to those he'd forced to be obstinate. Then apparently one chap said he'd changed his mind and as long as one is sufficiently blinkered this would be true.

[Strike For The South]

Love and comfort are not synonyms. Nor does a loving God absolve people of acting morally or ethically.

[total relism]

Who said God is all loving? The terrified people who were desperately hoping that if they were flattering he might randomly kill someone else? Hardly a good source. He spent most of the time either showing off whilst committing genocide to those he'd forced to be obstinate. Then apparently one chap said he'd changed his mind and as long as one is sufficiently blinkered this would be true.

Well he did through the bible. I agree nothing says god must be loving, however god as reveled in the bible declares a loving god. So that must bring up the question of why is their death and suffering in a loving gods creation, how did it get here?

As for the claims of a genocidal god or unloving god, i suggest this thread here


Did God Command Genocide During the Conquest of Canaan?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan

[rory_20_uk]

Well he did through the bible. I agree nothing says god must be loving, however god as reveled in the bible declares a loving god. So that must bring up the question of why is their death and suffering in a loving gods creation, how did it get here?

As for the claims of a genocidal god or unloving god, i suggest this thread here


Did God Command Genocide During the Conquest of Canaan?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan

Most of the bible displays the absolute opposite - especially the old testament which is the majority of it. There are a few letters towards the end from people in the Roman Empire, but these often disagree with each other on important details so again "revealed" is a rather strong term to use. The source document is so rife with concerns it is at best the view of a group of people.

I think that genocide has a role to play in the concept of "love".

[total relism]

Most of the bible displays the absolute opposite - especially the old testament which is the majority of it. There are a few letters towards the end from people in the Roman Empire, but these often disagree with each other on important details so again "revealed" is a rather strong term to use. The source document is so rife with concerns it is at best the view of a group of people.

I think that genocide has a role to play in the concept of "love".

Very unspecific so i cannot respond not sure what you are saying here. I would suggest you have made clear that you have never actually read the bible. As for the claims of genocide in the OT I would love for you to comment on its relevant thread.

Did God Command genocide During the Conquest of Canaan?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan


But as for this thread, do you have any comments on why is There Death and Suffering if God is all Loving? if so i would also love to discus that.

[rory_20_uk]

Very unspecific so i cannot respond not sure what you are saying here. I would suggest you have made clear that you have never actually read the bible. As for the claims of genocide in the OT I would love for you to comment on its relevant thread.

Did God Command genocide During the Conquest of Canaan?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan
But as for this thread, do you have any comments on why is There Death and Suffering if God is all Loving? if so i would also love to discus that.

Thank you for offering your suggestions. As with so much, you are incorrect and based your assumptions on limited data. I have read from several versions of the bible (no, not cover to cover) ranging from the Coptic to the St James, as well as more new and literal versions. I've also noted that there are some which miss large sections out and am very aware that they are all significantly different to each other. I note that you are more interested in evading answering questions on theology and would rather focus on the philosophy based on the extremely shaky grounds that everything based on an as-yet unnamed version of the Bible is to be taken as completely factually accurate and we are to have some fun and games pulling out quotes.

[total relism]

So animals sinned and stopped being vegetarian as well?

Yes. But not before the fall.

So however good and righteous you might be you may still suffer because "sometimes bad things happen to good people"? What's the use of being good and righteous then?

Yup, no matter how good you think you are, you still live in this fallen world. The only sinless man Jesus [according to the bible] was brutally murdered because of others sin. However none is guiltless or sinless before god. To even look at another woman lustfully is adultery in his view.

The reason to be good is it is what god asks of us, out of love we try and obey him.

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
2 john 1.6

We love him, because he first loved us
1 john 4.19

So God doesn't want to judge, he wants to forgive, yet he judges?

Right. he does not want us to sin and does not wish to punish us. But his perfect justice cannot allow sin or evil to go unpunished. Thus he offered to take the penalty on himself and pay the debt if we are willing. Think of a judge whos son is facing the death penalty, he wishes he did not murder, he loves him so much he would take his place, but the son refuses and as a judge, he must give the sentence or he would be a bad unjust judge.

"'Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?,' says the Lord God, 'And not rather that he should turn from his way and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone,' says the Lord God. 'So turn and live! Say to them, "As I live," says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways. For why will you die?"'"
-Ez. 18.23,32; 33.11

I have a different information:

Exodus 20:5
"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Deuteronomy 4:23-24
"For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God

Deuteronomy 32:16
"They made Him jealous with strange gods; With abominations they provoked Him to anger

Joshua 24:19
Then Joshua said to the people, "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins.


Generally speaking, proving anything citing Bible is a bad idea for in it one can find such proof to a completely opposite idea.

Generally speaking the context will clarify any text used to try and force any contradiction. Your first is to take out of its context and claim god unjustly punishes children for the sins of the fathers.

Sins of the fathers punish the children?

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
Deut. 24:16

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
Ezekiel 18:20

It is if they continue in fathers sins, they will be punished.

they continue in fathers sins will cause judgment, otherwise god would relent example 1 sam 15 3 and 5 god says he will punish amalakites for what happened in Egypt long before [fathers]. Yet they continued in fathers sin judges 3.12 6 3-5,33 7.12 10.12 etc 1 sam 30 1 sam 15.18 show they are presently wicked. A key to understanding this business is a concept called vicarious punishment that is found in the law codes of the ANE. Greenberg [Chr.SPPS, 295] offers these examples:

A creditor who has maltreated the distrained sin of his debtor that he dies, must lose his own son. If a man struck the pregnant daughter of another so that she miscarried and died, his own daughter must be put to death. A seducer must deliver his wife to the seduced girl's father for prostitution. In another class are penalties which involve the substitution of a dependent for the offerer -- the Hittite laws compelling a slayer to deliver so many persons to the kinsmen of the slain, or prescribing that a man who has pushed another into a fire must give over his son...Now it is precisely this kind of punishment, which was prescribed in every law code in the Near East, that Deut. 24:16 is intended to forbid. The verse is not a universal motto, but a time-specific law intended as a direct counter to the practices listed above. "The proper understanding of this requires...that it be recognized as a judicial provision, not a theological dictum." [Chr.SPPS, 296, 298]
http://www.tektonics.org/lp/paydaddy.html


many today support abortion because of rape, that is punishing the child for the sins of the father.




Deuteronomy 4 and 32


Yes God gets angry and jealous. I said he was loving. His love causes anger and jealousy. Think of your wife [assuming you are married or girlfriend or what ever] and she leaves you, breaks her covenant with you where she swore to be faithful, and cheated on you with other men. Wouldn't your love cause you to be Jealous and angry? Gods jealousy is not the same as human jealousy and a great book would be

https://www.amazon.com/God-Moral-Mon.../dp/0801072751

for this and i think it betters fits a future thread of mine coming soon. Gods anger is perhaps no better displayed than during the conquest, see here

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan


I think you will see that his anger is not a human kind of anger but

“Judgment is not opposed to Gods love and compassion, but rather springs from the character of a loving, caring god”
-Matthew Flannagan and paul Copan Did God really Command genocide

“I used to think that wrath was unworthy of God. Isn't God love? Shouldn't divine love be beyond wrath? ?God is love,and God loves every person and every creature. That's exactly why God is wrathful against some of them. My last resistance to the idea of God's wrath was a casualty of the war in the former Yugoslavia, a region from which I come. According to some estimates, 200,000 people were killed, and over 3,000,000 were displaced. My villages and cities were destroyed, my people shelled day in and day out, some of them brutalize beyond imagination, and I could not imagine God not being angry. Or think of Rwanda in the last decade of the past century, where 800,000 people were hacked to death in one hundred days! How did God react to the carnage? By doting on the perpetrators in a grandfatherly fashion? By refusing to condemn the bloodbath but instead affirming the perpetrators' basic goodness? Wasn't God fiercely angry with them? Though I used to complain about the indecency of the idea of God's wrath, I cam to think that I would have to rebel against a God who wasn't wrathful at the sight of the world' evil. God isn't wrathful in spite of being love. God is wrathful because God is love”
-Miroslav Volf Harvard Theologian quoted in Is God a Moral Monster? by Paul Copan, 192



As for joshua 24 and that god will not forgive, that is if they refuse to follow him and continue in sin after his warnings, they chose to sin and separate from him in disobedience. Thus his justice must come that he wishes not to do .

“ If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8 and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.”
-Jeremiah 18 7-10

“When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.”
-Jonah 3.10

I like it. A person sinned. What should be the solution? A modern Christian would say: make him repent, or show him he was wrong, or scare him with a terrible prospect and thus make him stop sinning. What does "the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness" suggest (according to a Shane Cessna)? Kill him! I like it. What about forgiveness?

I think you misread. He said the only other option for god at this point would have been to kill adam and eve, showing god chose the more forgiving path.

A wrong assumption. It rather assumes he has absolved himself of all responsibility and watches from on high with insouciant nonchalance. And sometimes lets "bad things happen to good people".

a wrong assumption, it assumes he has not done anything about it, a very false assumption as my op showed.

Sounds too much like an election agenda.

lol, nice.

To kill a human to REMIND all others of something? That sure could have been done only by
"the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love".

It was referring to death as a whole, as part of the fallen world. God does not kill to remind people of death, it is now natural. When animals and loved ones die, their is a sense in most people this is wrong and not meant to be, this would make no sense in an athsitic worldview, but it is so.

So the world in which someone walks on water or turns water into win or resurrects a corpse is not bizarre? Isn't walking on water somehow inrefering with gravity?

great point. However those miracles of jesus were to show him the son of god, not normative way of life. If it were normal noone would know what a miracle was. You need a standard way of laws to operate so the creator can show he is who he claims to be.

[Husar]

Yup, no matter how good you think you are, you still live in this fallen world.

Why does he not make the fallen world unfallen? Isn't he all-powerful?

[total relism]

Why does he not make the fallen world unfallen? Isn't he all-powerful?

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”
-Revelations 21 1-5


The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD
-Isiah 11 6-9

he will swallow up death forever.
The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears
from all faces;
he will remove his people’s disgrace
from all the earth.
The Lord has spoken.
-Isiah 25.8

[Husar]

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”
-Revelations 21 1-5


The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD
-Isiah 11 6-9

he will swallow up death forever.
The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears
from all faces;
he will remove his people’s disgrace
from all the earth.
The Lord has spoken.
-Isiah 25.8

Yes, but why wait >2000 years?

[total relism]

Yes, but why wait >2000 years?

I ask the same thing. But the bible says god wants all to be saved and all to hear the gospel.

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 [B]The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2 peter 3 8-9

He desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"
-1Tim. 2.4

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16.15

[Husar]

I ask the same thing. But the bible says god wants all to be saved and all to hear the gospel.

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 [B]The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2 peter 3 8-9

He desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"
-1Tim. 2.4

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16.15

But who are "all"? Is there some stash of unborn souls somehwere that he needs to deplete before he can bring about the end? What if we were to nuke the entire planet before that happens? Would he prevent that from happening? If so, would that be a way to irrefutably prove his existence, by trying to nuke all of humanity? Didn't Paul expect judgment day to come during his lifetime anyway?

[Gilrandir]

Yes. But not before the fall.

I don't believe the notion of sin is applicable to anyone but humans. Other wise one will claim that trees, robots and oceans can sin.

The reason to be good is it is what god asks of us, out of love we try and obey him.

And yet he gives no surety we will not suffer even if we love and obey him.

Generally speaking the context will clarify any text used to try and force any contradiction. Your first is to take out of its context and claim god unjustly punishes children for the sins of the fathers.

I don't need a context to understand a phrase "jealous God". It is quite telling in itself.

Sins of the fathers punish the children?

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
Deut. 24:16

As I have remarked, Bible is full of contradictory statements, so trying to score a point by quoting it will be countered by another quote with a completely opposite sense.

Yes God gets angry and jealous. I said he was loving. His love causes anger and jealousy. Think of your wife [assuming you are married or girlfriend or what ever] and she leaves you, breaks her covenant with you where she swore to be faithful, and cheated on you with other men. Wouldn't your love cause you to be Jealous and angry?

See above.

Gods jealousy is not the same as human jealousy

I think you will see that his anger is not a human kind of anger

Is is what humans assume.

a wrong assumption, it assumes he has not done anything about it, a very false assumption as my op showed.

He interferes now and then, but most of the time he just watches unfolding of history to the bitter end.

great point. However those miracles of jesus were to show him the son of god, not normative way of life. If it were normal noone would know what a miracle was. You need a standard way of laws to operate so the creator can show he is who he claims to be.

If those miracles happened on a regular basis THIS would become a standard way of laws to operate. So people would be aware of omnipresent God ready to always lend a helping hand and stop mischief.

[total relism]

First i want to thank you for your honest look at my threads and sharing your thoughtful disagreements with them.

I don't believe the notion of sin is applicable to anyone but humans. Other wise one will claim that trees, robots and oceans can sin.

I do believe animals sin as they have spirts or souls i forget witch. People have body/spirit/soul, animals have body/spirit or soul [forget] oceans/trees [i love trees] have physical bodies. Tress are amazing i must say, and tolkien was more correct on ents than most think. well worth the read amazing.

Talking Trees—Secrets of Plant Communication
https://answersingenesis.org/biology...talking-trees/

And yet he gives no surety we will not suffer even if we love and obey him.

In fact the opposite, he assures us we will suffer.

“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.
You will be hated by everyone because of me
matt 10 16,22

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
Matthew 24.9

"Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy. But being a Christian, that's a tough call. That's rebellion."
-Alice Cooper


18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.
john 15 18-19


Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
Romans 8.36

Are they servants of Christ?--I speak as if insane--I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death.
2 Corinthians 11.23

"You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
matt 11.22

"He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.
matt 11.39

many more but you get the point.

I don't need a context to understand a phrase "jealous God". It is quite telling in itself.

Agreed god is a jealous god as the bible clearly says. And in what way is god jealous? what kind of jealousy is it? is it in a manner inconstant with a loving god? or is it because of his love? the context can help us understand that. Otherwise some might use it and create a false context and try and make his jealousy the way that some humans become jealous over things they should not.

As I have remarked, Bible is full of contradictory statements, so trying to score a point by quoting it will be countered by another quote with a completely opposite sense.

Once more I would suggest it is because you have ignored the context and your claim of children being punished for the fathers sin is a great example of this. In fact I will make a thread on supposed biblical contradictions where you can post your best examples as can any other poster. I will than help clarify the supposed contradictions. I have done so with many hundreds of them and they all result from usually lack of theological understanding, slight translations issues [usually always from the king james written in English 400 years ago] and lack of context. But that is for another thread.

Is is what humans assume.

?

He interferes now and then, but most of the time he just watches unfolding of history to the bitter end.

Agreed. Their is now a great separation between us and him.

If those miracles happened on a regular basis THIS would become a standard way of laws to operate. So people would be aware of omnipresent God ready to always lend a helping hand and stop mischief.

So you are saying you wish jesus was always around to heal the sick etc. He always told people this was not his mission as they just wanted to get well, he wanted their eternity with him, far more important.

[Gilrandir]

I do believe animals sin as they have spirts or souls i forget witch. P

We here are not concerned with what one BELIEVES. We are talking quotations. Please, cite anything in Bible which says that animals have souls similar to humans and that they can sin.

Here is definition of sin (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sin)
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law
b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible it's a sin to waste food
c : an often serious shortcoming : fault
2 a : transgression of the law of God
b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

Do tell me which explanations of sin are applicable to animals.

In fact the opposite, he assures us we will suffer.

So we will suffer, he will not interfere in it, and we must love him for that?

"Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy. But being a Christian, that's a tough call. That's rebellion."
-Alice Cooper

Alice Cooper
"Steal That Car"

It just ain't fair I was put in that position
Somebody left their keys in the ignition
I saw the unlocked door and made my decision
I just can't help myself

Everybody knows
I'm gonna steal that car
My reputation shows
I'm gonna steal that car
I did some time in '99
I'll do some time again
Everybody knows
I'm gonna steal that car

You somehow should sort out those whose opinions you rely on. Some of them aren't any authority outside their narrow circle, others have a dubious reputation (like Alice Cooper - I love him, by the way. One of my favorite singers. Grew up on his "Trash" and "Hey stoopid" albums).

Agreed god is a jealous god as the bible clearly says.

One more proof that Bible is full of contradictions. Or perhaps God is so versatile.

And in what way is god jealous? what kind of jealousy is it? is it in a manner inconstant with a loving god? or is it because of his love? the context can help us understand that. Otherwise some might use it and create a false context and try and make his jealousy the way that some humans become jealous over things they should not.

From what I quoted, his jealousy was aroused when someone prayed to other gods.

Once more I would suggest it is because you have ignored the context and your claim of children being punished for the fathers sin is a great example of this.

It is a great example that God can be needlessly cruel.

?

Humans try to explain what God says or means using their human logics (in their defense - they don't have any other). So we interpret his messages as we understand them. Which doesn't mean it is the correct interpretation of the divine will. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Bible is so contradictory.

So you are saying you wish jesus was always around to heal the sick etc. He always told people this was not his mission as they just wanted to get well, he wanted their eternity with him, far more important.

At least it would make more sense if one claims to be a merciful God. Otherwise it again looks like a politician's promise - you adhere to me and some time in future I'll try to do something about your current problems.

[total relism]

We here are not concerned with what one BELIEVES. We are talking quotations. Please, cite anything in Bible which says that animals have souls similar to humans and that they can sin.

Here is definition of sin (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sin)
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law
b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible it's a sin to waste food
c : an often serious shortcoming : fault
2 a : transgression of the law of God
b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

Do tell me which explanations of sin are applicable to animals.

You are testing my expertise that is for sure. I am open to animals not being able to sin though i thought they were and if i come by why, i will post. But i will at least say they are effected by adams sin, they now do things against gods desire for them even if it is not counted as "sin" by god because of their perhaps lack of awareness.

For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
Ecclesiastes 3:19–21

The Hebrew word nephesh is translated soul dozens of times in the Old Testament, but it is also used to describe animals.

The Bible makes a clear distinction between the status of plants and animals. People and animals are described in Genesis as having, or being, nephesh (Hebrew)—see Genesis 1:20, 21, 24, where nephesh chayyah is translated ‘living creatures’, and Genesis 2:7, where
Adam became a ‘living soul’ (nephesh chayyah). Nephesh conveys the basic idea of a ‘breathing creature’. It is also used widely in the
Old Testament, in combination with other words, to convey ideas of emotions, feelings, etc. Perhaps nephesh refers to life with a certain
level of consciousness.
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/cabook/chapter6.pdf

So we will suffer, he will not interfere in it, and we must love him for that?

No you dont have to like it, the christian life is not fun and enjoyment. its because we love him we endure it. Just like because he loved us he endured the cross.

Alice Cooper
"Steal That Car"

It just ain't fair I was put in that position
Somebody left their keys in the ignition
I saw the unlocked door and made my decision
I just can't help myself

Everybody knows
I'm gonna steal that car
My reputation shows
I'm gonna steal that car
I did some time in '99
I'll do some time again
Everybody knows
I'm gonna steal that car

You somehow should sort out those whose opinions you rely on. Some of them aren't any authority outside their narrow circle, others have a dubious reputation (like Alice Cooper - I love him, by the way. One of my favorite singers. Grew up on his "Trash" and "Hey stoopid" albums).

Yes all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god, still its a great quote. he is a christian now, not when he wrote those lyrics. Look at Paul in the NT, he use to hunt down and kill Christians. Moses, david, many of the most well known names in the bible were murders. My past is full of stealing, drugs, selfishness, adultery, lying and just about anything else you could add to it. That is before i became a crazy ass christian

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
-Ezekiel 36 26

One more proof that Bible is full of contradictions. Or perhaps God is so versatile.

when does it say he is not jealous? what contradiction do you see? as sated, his jealousy is driven by love. It is not a desire for what others [people? other gods?] have, but a desire to be in a loving relationship with his people in this case isreal. His bride who cheated on him by following other gods. if you see a contradiction please let me know.

From what I quoted, his jealousy was aroused when someone prayed to other gods.

more than prayed but agreed, see above.

It is a great example that God can be needlessly cruel.

if what you are saying devoid of context is true, than i agree, and so does the bible.

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
Deut. 24:16

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
Ezekiel 18:20

Humans try to explain what God says or means using their human logics (in their defense - they don't have any other). So we interpret his messages as we understand them. Which doesn't mean it is the correct interpretation of the divine will. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Bible is so contradictory.

or, perhaps its the reason you see contradictions where non exists. I can show you suing human logic and resolve any supposed contradiction you think exists. I have done so hundreds of times on many forums. I will do a thread on it and i will pm you if your interested.

At least it would make more sense if one claims to be a merciful God. Otherwise it again looks like a politician's promise - you adhere to me and some time in future I'll try to do something about your current problems.

He never said he would do anything of our current problems. He said they will become worse in fact. Jesus had a different opinion. First he had to die and rise to pay the penalty for sin, than he if he had stayed in human form, could only help people within isreal so that would not help, instead he helps all believers and attempts all people, through the holy spirit.

But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
john 16.7


6 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[a] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”...26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
John 14

[Gilrandir]

when does it say he is not jealous? what contradiction do you see? as sated, his jealousy is driven by love. It is not a desire for what others [people? other gods?] have, but a desire to be in a loving relationship with his people in this case isreal. His bride who cheated on him by following other gods. if you see a contradiction please let me know.

Under contradictions I mean statements that have completely opposite meaning, but are both one person (if God is a person). In linguistics they are called antinomies. Like God is forgiving and God is jealous. Or another example is

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
Deut. 24:16

vs what was said about children being punished to the seventh degree.

He never said he would do anything of our current problems.

You quoted another source (not Bible) which had this idea. If you remember I likened it to a political slogan.