Why is There Death and Suffering if God is all Loving

[Gilrandir]

I do believe animals sin as they have spirts or souls i forget witch. P

We here are not concerned with what one BELIEVES. We are talking quotations. Please, cite anything in Bible which says that animals have souls similar to humans and that they can sin.

Here is definition of sin (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sin)
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law
b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible it's a sin to waste food
c : an often serious shortcoming : fault
2 a : transgression of the law of God
b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

Do tell me which explanations of sin are applicable to animals.

In fact the opposite, he assures us we will suffer.

So we will suffer, he will not interfere in it, and we must love him for that?

"Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy. But being a Christian, that's a tough call. That's rebellion."
-Alice Cooper

Alice Cooper
"Steal That Car"

It just ain't fair I was put in that position
Somebody left their keys in the ignition
I saw the unlocked door and made my decision
I just can't help myself

Everybody knows
I'm gonna steal that car
My reputation shows
I'm gonna steal that car
I did some time in '99
I'll do some time again
Everybody knows
I'm gonna steal that car

You somehow should sort out those whose opinions you rely on. Some of them aren't any authority outside their narrow circle, others have a dubious reputation (like Alice Cooper - I love him, by the way. One of my favorite singers. Grew up on his "Trash" and "Hey stoopid" albums).

Agreed god is a jealous god as the bible clearly says.

One more proof that Bible is full of contradictions. Or perhaps God is so versatile.

And in what way is god jealous? what kind of jealousy is it? is it in a manner inconstant with a loving god? or is it because of his love? the context can help us understand that. Otherwise some might use it and create a false context and try and make his jealousy the way that some humans become jealous over things they should not.

From what I quoted, his jealousy was aroused when someone prayed to other gods.

Once more I would suggest it is because you have ignored the context and your claim of children being punished for the fathers sin is a great example of this.

It is a great example that God can be needlessly cruel.

?

Humans try to explain what God says or means using their human logics (in their defense - they don't have any other). So we interpret his messages as we understand them. Which doesn't mean it is the correct interpretation of the divine will. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Bible is so contradictory.

So you are saying you wish jesus was always around to heal the sick etc. He always told people this was not his mission as they just wanted to get well, he wanted their eternity with him, far more important.

At least it would make more sense if one claims to be a merciful God. Otherwise it again looks like a politician's promise - you adhere to me and some time in future I'll try to do something about your current problems.

[total relism]

We here are not concerned with what one BELIEVES. We are talking quotations. Please, cite anything in Bible which says that animals have souls similar to humans and that they can sin.

Here is definition of sin (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sin)
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law
b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible it's a sin to waste food
c : an often serious shortcoming : fault
2 a : transgression of the law of God
b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

Do tell me which explanations of sin are applicable to animals.

You are testing my expertise that is for sure. I am open to animals not being able to sin though i thought they were and if i come by why, i will post. But i will at least say they are effected by adams sin, they now do things against gods desire for them even if it is not counted as "sin" by god because of their perhaps lack of awareness.

For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
Ecclesiastes 3:19–21

The Hebrew word nephesh is translated soul dozens of times in the Old Testament, but it is also used to describe animals.

The Bible makes a clear distinction between the status of plants and animals. People and animals are described in Genesis as having, or being, nephesh (Hebrew)—see Genesis 1:20, 21, 24, where nephesh chayyah is translated ‘living creatures’, and Genesis 2:7, where
Adam became a ‘living soul’ (nephesh chayyah). Nephesh conveys the basic idea of a ‘breathing creature’. It is also used widely in the
Old Testament, in combination with other words, to convey ideas of emotions, feelings, etc. Perhaps nephesh refers to life with a certain
level of consciousness.
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/cabook/chapter6.pdf

So we will suffer, he will not interfere in it, and we must love him for that?

No you dont have to like it, the christian life is not fun and enjoyment. its because we love him we endure it. Just like because he loved us he endured the cross.

Alice Cooper
"Steal That Car"

It just ain't fair I was put in that position
Somebody left their keys in the ignition
I saw the unlocked door and made my decision
I just can't help myself

Everybody knows
I'm gonna steal that car
My reputation shows
I'm gonna steal that car
I did some time in '99
I'll do some time again
Everybody knows
I'm gonna steal that car

You somehow should sort out those whose opinions you rely on. Some of them aren't any authority outside their narrow circle, others have a dubious reputation (like Alice Cooper - I love him, by the way. One of my favorite singers. Grew up on his "Trash" and "Hey stoopid" albums).

Yes all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god, still its a great quote. he is a christian now, not when he wrote those lyrics. Look at Paul in the NT, he use to hunt down and kill Christians. Moses, david, many of the most well known names in the bible were murders. My past is full of stealing, drugs, selfishness, adultery, lying and just about anything else you could add to it. That is before i became a crazy ass christian

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
-Ezekiel 36 26

One more proof that Bible is full of contradictions. Or perhaps God is so versatile.

when does it say he is not jealous? what contradiction do you see? as sated, his jealousy is driven by love. It is not a desire for what others [people? other gods?] have, but a desire to be in a loving relationship with his people in this case isreal. His bride who cheated on him by following other gods. if you see a contradiction please let me know.

From what I quoted, his jealousy was aroused when someone prayed to other gods.

more than prayed but agreed, see above.

It is a great example that God can be needlessly cruel.

if what you are saying devoid of context is true, than i agree, and so does the bible.

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
Deut. 24:16

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
Ezekiel 18:20

Humans try to explain what God says or means using their human logics (in their defense - they don't have any other). So we interpret his messages as we understand them. Which doesn't mean it is the correct interpretation of the divine will. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Bible is so contradictory.

or, perhaps its the reason you see contradictions where non exists. I can show you suing human logic and resolve any supposed contradiction you think exists. I have done so hundreds of times on many forums. I will do a thread on it and i will pm you if your interested.

At least it would make more sense if one claims to be a merciful God. Otherwise it again looks like a politician's promise - you adhere to me and some time in future I'll try to do something about your current problems.

He never said he would do anything of our current problems. He said they will become worse in fact. Jesus had a different opinion. First he had to die and rise to pay the penalty for sin, than he if he had stayed in human form, could only help people within isreal so that would not help, instead he helps all believers and attempts all people, through the holy spirit.

But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
john 16.7


6 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[a] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”...26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
John 14

[Gilrandir]

when does it say he is not jealous? what contradiction do you see? as sated, his jealousy is driven by love. It is not a desire for what others [people? other gods?] have, but a desire to be in a loving relationship with his people in this case isreal. His bride who cheated on him by following other gods. if you see a contradiction please let me know.

Under contradictions I mean statements that have completely opposite meaning, but are both one person (if God is a person). In linguistics they are called antinomies. Like God is forgiving and God is jealous. Or another example is

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
Deut. 24:16

vs what was said about children being punished to the seventh degree.

He never said he would do anything of our current problems.

You quoted another source (not Bible) which had this idea. If you remember I likened it to a political slogan.

[total relism]

Under contradictions I mean statements that have completely opposite meaning, but are both one person (if God is a person). In linguistics they are called antinomies. Like God is forgiving and God is jealous. Or another example is

But than how is god being forgiving and jealous a contradiction?

vs what was said about children being punished to the seventh degree.

when they continue in their fathers sins and refuse to repent.

You quoted another source (not Bible) which had this idea. If you remember I likened it to a political slogan.

[/QUOTE]

hmmm, not sure which you are referring to. If so i apologize.

[Gilrandir]

But than how is god being forgiving and jealous a contradiction?

If you forgive everyone for everything you can't feel jealous.

hmmm, not sure which you are referring to.

Taken from your post:

In fact, God has done a lot already to solve the problem of evil, and He has promised to do more in the future.

And my remark:

Sounds too much like an election agenda.

[total relism]

If you forgive everyone for everything you can't feel jealous.



Taken from your post:


And my remark:

Sounds too much like an election agenda.

God does not just forgive everything. He offers forgiveness to those who accept jesus sacrifice on the cross and repent. God is even jealous of people who are his own such as the case with ancient isreal who than went astray because his love for them did not stop. Just as a husband would be jealous of an adulterous wife, even if he was willing to forgive if she stopped, his love still drives the jealousy. There is difference between condoning an act and forgiving a moral violation out of love and gods nature.


Perhaps it is. God did so much for us vote for him, accept his son and have the gift of eternal life. He alone is the rightful king.

Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...edience-to-God

We love him, because he first loved us.
-1 John 4.19

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
-Romans 5.8



But I was speaking more to what he did do in the past, such as die on the cross.

[Fragony]

You should stop using the bible as a source, the people you adress (including me) do not see it as a source. The question is interesting enough without it, what do you think yourself