Future of the European Union

[Husar]

To me this sounds a bit like the attempt to force-feed us Europeans with more HFCS and trans-fats...

I don't really care how unfair it is that our products are better/subsidized, I don't want to buy your canned cancer either way.
If they flood the market with cheap, unhealthy food, it might still become the only thing our supermarkets offer, at least in the price range affordable for most.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

To me this sounds a bit like the attempt to force-feed us Europeans with more HFCS and trans-fats...

I don't really care how unfair it is that our products are better/subsidized, I don't want to buy your canned cancer either way.
If they flood the market with cheap, unhealthy food, it might still become the only thing our supermarkets offer, at least in the price range affordable for most.

Nonsense. We're more than happy to let you appease our corn farmers by buying tanker loads of ethanol to add to your gasoline instead. As long as our agro lobby is happy, it need not by HFCS.

[Fragony]

Kinda wary as well, going to stick with made in the Netherlands, soy and corn-syrup isn't necessarily bad for you but this isn't something to cheer for

[Furunculus]

Remain - I just want tomorrow to looks roughly the same as today:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...overeign-power

[Husar]

Remain - I just want tomorrow to looks roughly the same as today:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...overeign-power

That's basically the idea the EU should be (and was to some extent) following anyway.
Remember how the people in the 13 colonies didn't want to unite and the politicians did it anyway? The number of people complaining today is relatively small, especially when it comes to comparisons to other nations, the relative power, etc.

If it's better to be a big bully nation than a small victim one, why shouldn't I want to be just that? Competition is the game! It's only natural.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

T...Remember how the people in the 13 colonies didn't want to unite and the politicians did it anyway?...

There were, indeed, a number of voices raised in concern over the Constitution. The last of the 13 to ratify it, Rhode Island, did so with 18 stated caveats and 21 proposed amendments.

[Furunculus]

That's basically the idea the EU should be (and was to some extent) following anyway.
Remember how the people in the 13 colonies didn't want to unite and the politicians did it anyway? The number of people complaining today is relatively small, ....why shouldn't I want to be just that? Competition is the game! It's only natural.

No reason why you shouldn't. Just so long as we honestly acknowledge the goal, and people who don't share it can decide to exit.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The thirteen colonies had a clear external threat and none were in a position to gain independence by themselves. After the war, everyone willingly played nice...for a time. The EU is a union of already independent states held together by words, not by action.

[Montmorency]

The thirteen colonies had a clear external threat and none were in a position to gain independence by themselves. After the war, everyone willingly played nice...for a time. The EU is a union of already independent states held together by words, not by action.

Not quite. Held together by economics. That's like, the whole point of the post-war projects, right? It's like Zionism for Europeans.

[Beskar]

In American History, the Articles of Confederation was plagued with problems even after the war and was always on the brink of collapsing. It essentially took men who worked very hard on the concept of an United States, roping in George Washington, the national hero. It was his celebrity status which got people attending the meetings for the beginning steps to get ratified as any attempts to remove state powers were automatically rejected as all votes had to be unanimous.

The concept to returning to those times is pretty Alien now in North America. If they were unsuccessful, the North American continent would look very different.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

In American History, the Articles of Confederation was plagued with problems even after the war and was always on the brink of collapsing. It essentially took men who worked very hard on the concept of an United States, roping in George Washington, the national hero. It was his celebrity status which got people attending the meetings for the beginning steps to get ratified as any attempts to remove state powers were automatically rejected as all votes had to be unanimous.

The concept to returning to those times is pretty Alien now in North America. If they were unsuccessful, the North American continent would look very different.

Well said.

George was also vital tactically to the people who wanted a replacement for the Articles. His status made him a shoe-in to be picked to preside. When they finally got a quorum to begin, GW was selected, recognized one of his fellow Virginians and the "Virginia Plan" was on the table immediately to set the tone (new constitution) for the convention.

[edyzmedieval]

Apparently the French President isn't doing too well - given the fact that this has EU impact, can someone elaborate?

[Fragony]

Byebye childless Mutti, Merkel is bonjoured, what a disaster that 'woman'

[Husar]

Translation: Merkel steps down as chairwoman of the CDU and does not want to run for reelection in 2021, decisions likely caused by recent losses of the CDU and CSU in state elections.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46020745

[Fragony]

yeajyeah, and she wants to spend more time with her family

[Husar]

yeajyeah, and she wants to spend more time with her family

Perhaps, so who do you think will replace her?

[Fragony]

Perhaps, so who do you think will replace her?

I don't know, probably someone from the CSU or closer to it, immigration HAS become an issue, Germans didn't ask for those 1.6 million hardly screened newcommers

[Gilrandir]

Byebye childless Mutti, Merkel is bonjoured, what a disaster that 'woman'

Translation: Merkel steps down as chairwoman of the CDU and does not want to run for reelection in 2021, decisions likely caused by recent losses of the CDU and CSU in state elections.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46020745

As we say in Ukraine, when you leave without saying goodbye, it is a British departure. But when you say goodbye and never leave, it is a Jewish departure. It seems Fragony has bade her farewell but she never left (and won't for quite a time).

[Fragony]

She better should, she can do no good with just about anyone anymore. Populist right can drink her blood because of her immigration policy, left blame her for the rise of the populist right, her own party blames her for poor election results. She inherited a stable Germany and leaves a devided one. Internationally she made herself impossible as well. Germany has little friends left, Netherlands perhaps but only the government, who aren't very popular either I expect a beating

[Gilrandir]

She better should, she can do no good with just about anyone anymore. Populist right can drink her blood because of her immigration policy, left blame her for the rise of the populist right, her own party blames her for poor election results. She inherited a stable Germany and leaves a devided one. Internationally she made herself impossible as well. Germany has little friends left, Netherlands perhaps but only the government, who aren't very popular either I expect a beating

Sometimes things happen because they were meant to, and no one can change them. The fat 2000s lulled you and you thought that it will last forever. When the times changed (what with the immigrant deluge and depredations of Russia) NOBODY was ready for it and I don't think ANYONE would do better in her place. Or do you have some German politician in mind who would schaff das better? If you do, out with him (her). But even if you do, we can only guess if (s)he might have done better. Big catastrophes can hardly be stemmed by any person. Otherwise we might claim that when Beskar started moderating this site, it was a thriving place teeming with activities and discussions, and now it has petered out to a trickle. So would it be right to blame him for it, or would it be wiser to realize that it was initially game centered and when the game became outdated people just moved to other venues with newer game discussions?

[Fragony]

No German politician should have to, according to the Dublin-treaty asylum should be asked in the first European country they set foot on, Merkel just shoved that aside

[Montmorency]

No German politician should have to, according to the Dublin-treaty asylum should be asked in the first European country they set foot on, Merkel just shoved that aside

Wouldn't it have been easy to leave Greece, the Balkans, and the migrants to get figged? Or to close Germany and route the migrants to everywhere but - perhaps toward the Netherlands? The decision to concentrate the migrants in Germany was a calculated strategic compromise to rescue the weakest EU/European countries and avert humanitarian catastrophe - at least temporarily. As the main beneficiary of the EU, there was certainly an element of self-interest by Germany in stabilizing the southern flank, as well as in the attempt to equally distribute the burden throughout the EU via quotas.

You still seem to think Merkel waved a magic wand that materialized thousands of bodies out of thin air. Germany's primary failure was in not pushing harder and sacrificing more in shouldering the burden in order to reform EU-wide policy and give Italy and Greece a long-term solution to inevitably being the first port of entry for migrants from the south.

[Fragony]

It ś very simple what should have been done, fortifying Europeś borders, instead Merkel made a birdcall.She is done for, she lost all control. The eastern-european countries do not listen to an ex-stasi, in the north the populist right is growing everywhere, gein wiedergutmachen

[Montmorency]

It ś very simple what should have been done, fortifying Europeś borders, instead Merkel made a birdcall.She is done for, she lost all control. The eastern-european countries do not listen to an ex-stasi, in the north the populist right is growing everywhere, gein wiedergutmachen

On the subject of whether it would have been a good or feasible policy for the EU as a unit to remilitarize and mobilize for the sole purpose of inflicting violence on hundreds of thousands of black and Muslim people we can differ (vehemently), but to say "Merkel made a birdcall" is not reality.

The reactionaries are elitists, not populists. Better for you to discover this sooner rather than later.

[Gilrandir]

On the subject of whether it would have been a good or feasible policy for the EU as a unit to remilitarize and mobilize for the sole purpose of inflicting violence on hundreds of thousands of black and Muslim people we can differ (vehemently), but to say "Merkel made a birdcall" is not reality.

I see the sole purpose of mobilizing in fending off unwanted intruders.

[Fragony]

On the subject of whether it would have been a good or feasible policy for the EU as a unit to remilitarize and mobilize for the sole purpose of inflicting violence on hundreds of thousands of black and Muslim people we can differ (vehemently), but to say "Merkel made a birdcall" is not reality.

The reactionaries are elitists, not populists. Better for you to discover this sooner rather than later.

Who talks about killing. Australian method, dragging the ships back

edit; Asia Bibi, now THAT is someone who deserves to be sheltered. Iranian women (yummie) and leftist students as well, they are actually in danger

[Montmorency]

I see the sole purpose of mobilizing in fending off unwanted intruders.

Who talks about killing. Australian method, dragging the ships back

edit; Asia Bibi, now THAT is someone who deserves to be sheltered. Iranian women (yummie) and leftist students as well, they are actually in danger

You should have thought of that in 2012, at the latest. If you want to fault European and world leadership for failing to do foreign policy and economic policy properly in the years leading up to the migrant crises (which will last beyond any of our lifetimes), you have no qualms from me. But if your reaction is take it out on the desperate and most affected at the height of the ordeal, think more carefully.

Ew. If Iranian women are in danger, are women anywhere else in the Middle East also in danger?

[Gilrandir]

You should have thought of that in 2012, at the latest. If you want to fault European and world leadership for failing to do foreign policy and economic policy properly in the years leading up to the migrant crises (which will last beyond any of our lifetimes), you have no qualms from me. But if your reaction is take it out on the desperate and most affected at the height of the ordeal, think more carefully.

So you support letting a column of Central Americans into the US?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/1843469002/

[Fragony]

You should have thought of that in 2012, at the latest. If you want to fault European and world leadership for failing to do foreign policy and economic policy properly in the years leading up to the migrant crises (which will last beyond any of our lifetimes), you have no qualms from me. But if your reaction is take it out on the desperate and most affected at the height of the ordeal, think more carefully.

Ew. If Iranian women are in danger, are women anywhere else in the Middle East also in danger?

Well I thought of it, politicians didn't. As for women in the middle-east, yeah, I would be much more lenient for them nut they are kinda trapped

Not in our lifetime, apres moi le deluge?

[Montmorency]

So you support letting a column of Central Americans into the US?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/1843469002/

Do I support following national and international law on the processing of asylum claims? Yes.

The situation will continue to degrade in Latin America as violence increases and crops continue to fail (hi climate change!). Hundreds of thousands of Central Americans (population Central America ~ Ukraine) have already migrated to Mexico in the past few years; without serious reform eventually collapse will cascade... It's the same story all over the world. People today flee their homes for the same reason people have since the advent of sedentary living. We are reaping the whirlwind of our policies. A siege mentality is detrimental to both outsiders and insiders.