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Thread: Why am I bad in tactics?

  1. #1

    Default Why am I bad in tactics?

    Is there any guide for tactics? I know that I am slow and cannot take care of 16 units at the same time.

  2. #2
    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    General Tip : Do not give multiple orders in real time - using the pause button often helps a lot.

    [ NB : It is OK to do this as the AI thinks a lot faster than a human can - and often does multiple things at once ( usually on different flanks ) ! ]
    Last edited by DEB8; 10-06-2018 at 23:31.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by DEB8 View Post
    General Tip : Do not give multiple orders in real time - using the pause button often helps a lot.

    [ NB : It is OK to do this as the AI thinks a lot faster than a human can - and often does multiple things at once ( usually on different flanks ) ! ]
    Thanks for the tips.

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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Is there any guide for tactics? I know that I am slow and cannot take care of 16 units at the same time.
    Besides what I said elswhere, try to fight custom battles, where you can choose your army (and your enemy's army) yourself. Start with smaller armies (7-8 units) and, well, practice. I can send you some of my saved battles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    You could also set up a custom battle, where both your army and your enemy's army and the terrain involved, come from a pending campaign situation.

    I find this quite helpful when playing with ( or against ) units ( or nations ) I have not come across before...

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    As mentioned, the custom battle is an excellent way to hone your skill. You can fight 1 vs 1 to see the effectiveness of certain units against others; you can try units of various sizes to see if you are more comfortable with small unit sizes or large size; you can fight in different kinds of terrain to see the effects of hills/forest/weather; and don't overlook the historical battles, which are quite fun and can be replayed again and again.

    Mostly, don't worry if you lose a lot of battles at the start. There's a lot to learn both on the battlefield and on the strategic side of things. When playing a campaign, do read some of clan/faction/nation guides for both good and bad ways to play a particular faction. It also is helpful to read up on some of the more technical aspects of a game, like how the economy works, or trade, the effects of roads, temples, etc.

    You'll find yourself upping the difficulty setting in no time
    High Plains Drifter

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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    As mentioned, the custom battle is an excellent way to hone your skill. You can fight 1 vs 1 to see the effectiveness of certain units against others;
    Doesn't always work. Once I tried it and fought several battles with the same units in the same terrain. Outcomes were different. Besides, in a campaign battle you will never have a pure 1 v 1 unit melee. One of the units will have more valor, less armor, more fatigue, less morale, etc. Moreover, there always will be other units close by which will also factor in. So my advice is to fight custom battles with several units (much the way you will have in a "real" battle).
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Doesn't always work.
    Probably true. However, practicing 1 vs 1 isn't simply about winning or losing the battle. With only two units involved, you can zoom in close and actually watch the action, without distraction, to see how a particular unit functions in battle.

    As an example, for the longest time I never realized that elephants don't actually rack up a lot of kills, but instead cause major disruption in enemy formation leaving them vulnerable to a cavalry charge. In-game, with many multiple units engaged, it was difficult to see. But in 1 vs 1 it became clear as day. It took seemingly forever for the ellies to kill or rout the enemy, and if the action went on long enough, the ellies themselves might rout because of fatigue. That caused me to change my tactics with ellies. I began stacking a cavalry unit in echelon, had my ellies charge to a point beyond the unit they were attacking, and sent in the cavalry charge immediately. Devastating.

    In RTW, Cataphracts have two weapons, the primary spear, and the mace. The spear is best used for the initial charge, and then when melee ensues, switch to the AP mace. It's much easier to practice, and actually see them switch weapons, in 1 vs 1 than with multiple units.

    But yes, to get closer to what will actually occur in-game, multiple units is better, but with some 1 vs 1 experience, you already know how your units will behave, and don't have to micro-manage as much
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 10-12-2018 at 04:31.
    High Plains Drifter

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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    You will also gain a perspective on which units can beat other units ( all other things being equal ). Of course you can also factor in those other factors if you so choose, so that you know how much better a unit needs to be in Valour, Armour or Weapons before it can compete with a better basic unit.

    Battle tactics usually count for more of course, but you also need to know how to not mismatch your units when engaging the enemy...

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    So here is the replay of one of my battle: https://ufile.io/r0uoj. It would be nice of you to tell me your opinion. By the way how I can play vrp format?

  11. #11
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    So here is the replay of one of my battle: https://ufile.io/r0uoj. It would be nice of you to tell me your opinion. By the way how I can play vrp format?
    I'm afraid we wouldn't be able to see it. AFAIK, you should first transform vrp file into an archive zip file. After that one can download it into one's replays and watch it.

    At least I downloaded your vrp file and see it in the folder with battles, but can't see it in my replays when I start the game. But perhaps I'm doing something wrong.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 10-16-2018 at 10:43.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  12. #12

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I'm afraid we wouldn't be able to see it. AFAIK, you should first transform vrp file into an archive zip file. After that one can download it into one's replays and watch it.

    At least I downloaded your vrp file and see it in the folder with battles, but can't see it in my replays when I start the game. But perhaps I'm doing something wrong.
    Here please find the zip file: https://ufile.io/hkr8m. You need to save the file in battle sub-directory which is inside game directory.

  13. #13
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Here please find the zip file: https://ufile.io/hkr8m. You need to save the file in battle sub-directory which is inside game directory.
    I watched the battle. Some tips.

    1. I keep the clock turned off. I believe it isn't fair when you can lose the battle just because you didn't have time to finish it proprely. The same applies to winning a battle thanks to the clock. The clock is in Options menu (category GAME). But it is a matter of taste.

    2. When you formed a line with your spears (it should be 4 men deep) keep your archers (2 men deep formation) just behind the spears, so that you could shoot at the enemy when they appear within the bowshot.

    3. Generally, I try to hold the spearwall and get other units around the enemies flank and smite them in the rear. In your case you should have kept your urban militia at flanks (or at one flank since you had only two of them) and when your spears and the enemy's spears got engaged, you should have marched the militia behind the melee and hit the enemy in the rear.

    4. When the enemies general got entangled in the melee (or even before, when he appeared within your bowshot) you should have chosen him as the target for all your archers. Killing the general is a key to victory. And try to hold fire when the armies are engaged. Otherwise you will get collateral damage from your archers killing your own men.

    5. Never attack spears into the front with your cavalry. You should do this from behind while they are pinned by your other units.

    6.When you have dealt with the enemies on your left flank your archers traveled somewhere. Why? You should have marched them to your spears fighting with the enemy's general and peppered him with arrows. Thus you have wasted your spear unit and never got any other unit to help them.

    7. I didn't get who won the battle. Both sides stayed put indefinitely. You should have attacked the Polish general with your spears and got your urban militias and cavalry around the melee and hit him in the back.

    Generally, it wasn't bad for a newbie, but I get it was normal difficulty since the AI didn't grab the chances it had in the battle.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 10-16-2018 at 13:24.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  14. #14
    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    I have not seen the replay ; but the comments made by Gilrandir ( 2. to 5. inc. ) re general tactics, are certainly ones I would endorse.

    Re 1. : Generally speaking I agree completely ; but it's not an adjustment I have chosen to make myself...
    Last edited by DEB8; 10-16-2018 at 20:53.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Thanks for your replies and tips. Here is another battle (iam playing as German): https://ufile.io/tkhpi. Here is the quick save file: https://ufile.io/eb4su. I managed to kill around 390 and lose around 420. Computer more or less score the same. It would be nice of you if you could play the battle an let me know your score. My general has three stars and enemy general has four stars.
    Last edited by MoKus; 10-18-2018 at 10:41.

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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Thanks for your replies and tips. Here is another battle (iam playing as German): https://ufile.io/tkhpi. Here is the quick save file: https://ufile.io/eb4su. I managed to kill around 390 and lose around 420. Computer more or less score the same. It would be nice of you if you could play the battle an let me know your score. My general has three stars and enemy general has four stars.
    I don't know how I can play YOUR battle. Perhaps it could be done by making it a custom battle, but it would take quite a time choosing units with appropriate valor and stuff. Right now all I have time for is watch and give advice.

    As to the analysis of the battle. You were more active with your troops, but you failed to use your militias and cavalry while the spears were engaged. Archers never aimed at the general. And your shouldn't attack cavalry with ANYTHING but spears (or polearms). Other troops are for FLANKING the pinned cavalry and hitting it IN THE REAR. Try not to chase a single routing enemy with a whole unit and try to keep your army togehter, otherwise all units will be exterminated piecemeal.

    If you want, I can send you some of my battles I saved. Those are mainly historic battles and historic campaings. And tons of quick battles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I don't know how I can play YOUR battle.
    You need to unzip and save it in savegames directory. You then can load it . Thanks for tips.

  18. #18
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    You need to unzip and save it in savegames directory. You then can load it . Thanks for tips.
    I did it. But I can only WATCH it, not PLAY it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I did it. But I can only WATCH it, not PLAY it.
    How about this one? https://ufile.io/7ucne Perhaps I upload a wrong file.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Personally, I would never attack (willingly) with such shitty units (despite the overwhelming numbers). I would rather wait and get serious units instead, and then attack. Better battles that way... Anyhow, my result (not being particularly careful. AND using your old file)...

    Kills: 475
    Captured: 50+ (I don't remember)
    Losses: 220
    Paused: 0

    - A

  21. #21

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Personally, I would never attack (willingly) with such shitty units (despite the overwhelming numbers). I would rather wait and get serious units instead, and then attack. Better battles that way... Anyhow, my result (not being particularly careful. AND using your old file)...

    Kills: 475
    Captured: 50+ (I don't remember)
    Losses: 220
    Paused: 0

    - A
    That is fantastic. Could you please upload your replay so can see what you are doing?

  22. #22
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    How about this one? https://ufile.io/7ucne Perhaps I upload a wrong file.
    Axalon knows how to download it and then play it. I don't. I did what you said, but I can't see it in the list of saved battles. Even if I did, I wouldn't be able to play it. Perhaps it should be placed to a different folder. And it is not a vrp file when unzipped.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 10-19-2018 at 11:43.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  23. #23

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Axalon knows how to download it and then play it. I don't. I did what you said, but I can't see it in the list of saved battles. Even if I did, I wouldn't be able to play it. Perhaps it should be placed to a different folder. And it is not a vrp file when unzipped.
    Yes, that is not a vrp format. It is dat format which is for saved game so you need to copy the unziped file into savegames directory. It would be nice of you to upload your replay so I can see how do you play. It appears as "last quicksave" where you load your saved game. Thanks anyway.
    Last edited by MoKus; 10-19-2018 at 12:49.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    By the way, how I can change the orientation of my units? I hold left button and drag but my units have their back toward enemy.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Paused: 0
    High Plains Drifter

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  26. #26

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    By the way, how I can change the orientation of my units? I hold left button and drag but my units have their back toward enemy.
    I figure that out. It depends on the direction you drag the units, it should be left to right otherwise the units have opposite orientation.

  27. #27
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Yes, that is not a vrp format. It is dat format which is for saved game so you need to copy the unziped file into savegames directory. It would be nice of you to upload your replay so I can see how do you play. It appears as "last quicksave" where you load your saved game. Thanks anyway.
    Didn't work for me. The last quicksave I opened is MY LAST QUICKSAVE. All saved campaigns there are in cpg format. So I can't paly it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  28. #28

    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    That is fantastic. Could you please upload your replay so can see what you are doing?
    I did not make any saves of that battle. However, I did some new battles, and I saved the best one I had. In this case, I was actively trying to keep the casualties down. Recording and battlescore attached to this post. Overall, it ultimately boils down to practice, practice, practice... Grasshopper...

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    As mentioned, the custom battle is an excellent way to hone your skill. You can fight 1 vs 1 to see the effectiveness of certain units against others; you can try units of various sizes to see if you are more comfortable with small unit sizes or large size; you can fight in different kinds of terrain to see the effects of hills/forest/weather; ...
    This is a good suggestion... I would start with that...

    - A
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  29. #29
    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    I figure that out. It depends on the direction you drag the units, it should be left to right otherwise the units have opposite orientation.
    That one still catches me out now and then...

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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why am I bad in tactics?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post



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