Cliffton thread & Axalon/Deb8

[Beskar]

Its the responses and timing of the responses of teh posters involved [deb8/axalon] that give them away [likely being the same person]
[IP's as conclusive proof for the existence of alt accounts]

I will respond to this one straight off the bat, Deb8 and Axalon are not the same person.

I won't divulge personal details and I will refuse all requests, but when you operate a website, you have access to a lot of information from times people access the website, how long, from where they access it from (directly or via a link), and further such information. People also volunteer information when they sign up to the Org. For example, secret question and secret answer. This is used to confirm identity in case of an issue. So people will share things like their street name, the name of their dog, etc. There is also "Date of Birth" and whilst you see today that "Today's Birthdays:" people have given full information informing us they are 52 years old for example.
People can also tie in information such as steam names or facebook information to their account. In a manner which is quite frightening when pieced together, can end up giving far more information.

Back in 2008, these privacy concerns were even more relaxed and social media was not as big of a thing back then. People use their person names when signing up to websites such as joe.bloggs@hotmail.com. Now some of these can be faked or an alias used, others can choose not to disclose information, we can still gather a rough picture.

Now for a troll account, you would think privacy measures would be used. Both Deb8 and Axalon have not. As such, I have a clear picture of their personal information and they are separate individuals living thousands of miles apart. I have even seen their homes on Google maps. So for example, I know Deb8 has lived in the same house since 2008. Whilst Axalon has his primary location at home, but has accessed the Org when away.

Given the information, such as them both accessing the Org at the same places whilst thousands miles apart, I am safe that they are both separate individuals.

Now, are they friends who regularly chat on skype or discord or steam? No idea and it doesn't matter, no rules against that.

[Threads made by same people on same topic get locked after trolling by same people]
2. the clifton thread [ON THE VERY SAME TOPIC AS THE SINS THREAD AND WITH A LINK TO IT]

This has been brought up and we are aware of this issue. Whilst I never access the MTW area myself unless circumstances force me there, measures have been done to allow the second 'Clifton thread' on the subject to be open and with the view it is allowed to continue happily without interference which I will keep an eye on myself time to time. (Please report if it goes side-tracked for faster notice by myself).
I also read through it today and it looks like the thread is healthily on track and looking good. It was great to see.

3. the watchtower thread

When threads go off-topic and spiral between posters. It is usual rule of thumb to lock and close topics. In this circumstance, this 'usual rule of thumb' was a hasty call based on how major it spiralled out of control within an hour and a half due to the ability of the moderators involved not able to have access to deal with it appropriately at that time. Before they were able to deal with the matter, it was brought to the Watchtower where frustration was vented towards them. As I thought the matter was being handled, I did not intervene, till I noticed it still continued then I stepped in myself to remedy the grievances, allowing that topic to be re-opened and applying sanctions.
The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel. This led to Hooahguy making the call to close the thread as it was inappropriate.

From ALL THIS IS CLEAR THAT: axalon has a grudge against the specific topic and against me[gollum], caravel and anyone who might actually discuss or support it/and us. It also raises the question that deb8, that appears to mirror axalon and his fancies and works towards his ends, may be his alt account..
[Rivalry]
Over time, he abandoned any meaningful discourse and turned into a bulldozer on the outside - rude, overbearing, totally smug with a foul air of authority.. by now, anything he says or writes is only to manipulate and dominate.. appearances is all he ever cares about, which says it all..

As you say, there are grudges involved and unfortunately, life is like that, people hold grudges and people don't like people. I have never given an infraction to someone who dislikes me on the basis they dislike me. We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.
So the fact Deb8 or Axalon don't like you, or vice-versus, the solution is to place them on ignore, don't respond to it, and if they break the rules, report them. The solution is not to fight it out in the topic, Watchtower or elsewhere, as if it was the Hunger games, forcing staff to intervene.

You are perfectly free to think "Axalon is a bit of a twat", you are however not allowed to post this on the forums repeatedly.

you finally took action in the watchtower thread at post #39 - and "apologised" [you put the apology part in the edit.. it wasn't part of the response, just an afterthought for diplomacy's sake] for being late while all the while the moderators were keeping me at bay and so by dragging it to keep it all sleeping - thanks for the apologies matey ]

I regularly edit and review my posts. This is to fix errors and express myself more clearly. This is because I am aware of mistakes I make once I walked away from something then come back to it with fresh-eyes, part and parcel of my dyslexia. Therother once joked that my own personal self-edits takes up 3GB in the database itself. Reading more into my edits than that is on your own.

Guess who...
I also registered a whole new account just to reply to you

Don't worry, I won't allow it to go to this Self-Important Administer's head.

[caravel]

The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel. This led to Hooahguy making the call to close the thread as it was inappropriate.

You've turned this around brilliantly... Axalon/DEB8 has been allowed to troll his arse of for a decade and the staff have done nothing, except lock threads and blame those they are trolling. You, a relative newcomer, have turned up telling me how it is and you don't have even half the facts. You've spent your time on a little investigation regarding the alt accounts thing - to prove they are not the same - you've ignored the rest of it. Tell me in view of this, why should I care anymore?

The troll(s), one incarnation of which views this site and its staff with utter contempt, must be laughing.

As you say, there are grudges involved and unfortunately, life is like that, people hold grudges and people don't like people. I have never given an infraction to someone who dislikes me on the basis they dislike me. We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.
So the fact Deb8 or Axalon don't like you, or vice-versus, the solution is to place them on ignore, don't respond to it, and if they break the rules, report them.

Ax can't be ignored as he's a moderator... ;)

Advising to use the ignore list is again another example of where you have just dismissed all the concerns and placed the burden on those dealing with this character...

[Goalum]

I have even seen their homes on Google maps.

have you looked inside?

, I am safe that they are both separate individuals.

Which is what i was saying: safe to say doesnt= absolutely certain.. then?..

The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel

??!! the watchtower thread got closed down because deb8 trolled it to oblivion after he appeared - as i said he would.. the thread didn't get derailed by me or caravel during the ex-changes with axalon - i was maybe sarcastic, but not aggressive to him - your admin moved in for the closure ONLY after deb8 appeared and not before..

have you actually read the closing of the thread?? sounds from your reply that you haven't.. if not please do, otherwise there's no point discussing..

We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.

I didn't see anyone being sanctioned in the sins thread.. i was absent.. you locked it.. me and my points discredited and insulted and your moderator told off.. case closed..

And - as i said - it took a lot of "convincing" from my part to "sanction" the obvious - ie re-open the clifton thread and clear it from trolling.. where the rules were clearly being broken by someone else and not me and everyone that was participating and having fun - isnt this what the board is all about?.. yet you didnt protect that.. as i said [over and over] it took a lot of convincing against the grain

you make it appear as if your system works clockwork - when its anything but..

You are perfectly free to think "Axalon is a bit of a twat", you are however not allowed to post this on the forums repeatedly.

i actually never wrote that anywhere in the board until now, despite axalon insulting me [and almost everyone else] over and over and over again over many years, i've left axalon in peace and never bothered him - its the reverse that didnt happen - so i guess at some point when things pile up you need to defend yourself - especially when - judging from what it took to re-open the clifton thread..


as i explained in the rivalry part above - i'm not the only one being treated this way by the specfic patron or have the same impression.. but its your board and you make the calls etc.

..had axalon left everything on the floor as i always do with him - i would welcome the co-existence and even collaboration and discussion, and in some instances we managed to almost brush that - but when an 8 year old thread of mine got spam infested, troll hijacked, trashed and i was personally insulted therein and the thread got closed - and the very same topic thread opened up by a new member, NOT ME, got trolled by the same person as the sins thread - then i guess there's very little else to do but bringing this up to the staff and membership with the hope that the rules will be finally obeyed and i will be left in peace to enjoy the boards as i please within the framework of the rules - as i always did..

Originally posted by caravel
Ax can't be ignored as he's a moderator... ;)

Advising to use the ignore list is again another example of where you have just dismissed all the concerns and placed the burden on those dealing with this character...

Sounds like that - large parts of the board are organised around him [deb8 is the main hall now] - obviously we dont weigh in political importance anymore hence the onus seems to always be on us.. its ok, that's natural..

Anyway, Beskar lets leave it here, no point going over ex-changes between us anymore [you are welcome to reply of course, just know that after this i'm off] - i made my points over and over for those interested - you seem not to either have read them or be completely disinterested to understand them.. its your board and your call..

in a way, you are right - i am not active and obviously being treated with that in mind too - i guess its a factor - not minor one.. everyone makes their choices and i've made mine and left..

axalon and others made theirs and stayed.. its naive of me to think that the board would be the place i've left or known.. different conditions/people [in the staff and membership] create different environments and everyone has to go with their choices..

..so lets leave it here.. farewell