Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 61 to 79 of 79

Thread: Cliffton thread & Axalon/Deb8

  1. #61
    Stranger in a strange land Forum Administrator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Southern Vinland
    Posts
    11,071

    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Folks, I am locking this as it has gotten out of hand.
    Reunification: a Marcomanni AAR (on permanent hiatus)
    Zalmoxis's Lightning: a Getae AAR (finished)
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    (finished)

    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

    Member thankful for this post:

    DEB8 


  2. #62

    Default regarding the "regarding the cliffton thread that got locked"

    This is meant towards the org staff in general and those that have to do with the watchtower section in particular:

    the previous, cliffton-related thread was a well behaved, well informed thread by the admission of all patrons that participated and it did nothing wrong to no one - the DEBATE [DEB8] guy highjacked it quite clearly at a particular timing towards a confrontatinal pre-destined direction that seems to suit his ends, and instead of getting him out of the thread, the thread got closed..

    This is bending under pressure from one single person and i'm not even sure who that DEBATE guy really is and for whom he is DEBATING ABOUT, the way he jumps into certain particular things everytime..

    Org staff of the watchtower section you are clearly going about this the wrong way it seems to me and you are digging the watchtower section's hole.. might as well call it the redux section and let axalon "moderate" it.. will make for some interesting "DEBATES"..

    Too bad..


    [ this is meant to be a joke, but i'm not sure at the expense of whom? sadly, its probably against the good functioning of the board and its membership - the same tactics, by the same people, lead -predictably- in the same result. So perhaps you could leave it on as locked, as a reminder of this[=same tactics by certain same people yield same results]..]
    Last edited by gallum; 01-15-2019 at 14:36. Reason: lol

  3. #63

    Default Re: regarding the "regarding the cliffton thread that got locked"

    No idea why the previous thread in this forum was created there/moved there in the first place...

    Now, quite honestly no idea why it was locked either...

    If you post in the "main hall", you make on topic, constructive posts, then Dr Heckle/Mr Snide arrives on the scene to troll his arse off, it gets locked... this is because you responded - and on this forum responding to that kind of thing makes you equally culpable.

    You're told that this is the place, then the nominated staff rep emerges from the secret forum and... locked.

    Then the hilarious charade continues... ad infinitum...
    Last edited by caravel; 01-15-2019 at 14:26.

  4. #64

    Default Re: regarding the "regarding the cliffton thread that got locked"

    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    ... ad infinitum...
    ..regarding the "regarding the "regarding the "regarding the" " "..trolling by [very same] member that covers up [very another(?) same] member so said 2nd member doesn't look bad for unacceptable behaviour and no other contributions can be made on the same theme[the theme that doesn't make him look good]..

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Traditional_Russian_Matryoshka.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	67.6 KB 
ID:	22081

    Its your board - do as you please - and i've made my points in the previous thread regarding the specifics - this is the final one i want to drive home - ie the situation still goes on..


    PS watch this space below after i'm gone, for certain "replies"..

    They might come in two waves - lucky guess, the first will be something like so:

    This is all BS, i will have none of it, its a ridicoulous thread by a ridicoulous poster posting ridicoulous things, i will have none of it - what? staff you are editing what i'm saying??! i didn't say anything other than that its the poster and all he says is ridicoulous - this is lame so very lame - lame lame lame.. i will have none of it..now off to dat other TW site now - having said that - i've wasted enough time - In short..
    This will go on for a while, and if no desired result is reached, the second [a bit more outspoken, more liberated - not as "eloquent" ] will hit,

    like so:

    This is all moronic hypocritical S**t, from a hypocrit moron and if you think it isn't you are a lemming
    At which point the thread will be closed, left as it is, without the possibility for further adding towards any points made therein.. so that - if anyone is disinterested to take again the same shit from said member-s(?!)- the whole thing needs to be repeated again - in a new thread


    Seems like the story of that Sisyphus guy..all greek to me

    PPS They may also happen in reverse - ie you get the "friendly" troll at first for several pages and the overbearing smug as a conclusion.. its all very flexible

    PPPS NOTE: if no matter how many times you repeat the process you'll get the same both types of replies from the two types of poster/accounts, find then the connection between the two..HINT=consider the possibility the posters are connected in some way or are actually the very same person
    Last edited by gallum; 01-15-2019 at 16:10. Reason: added material

  5. #65

    Default Re: regarding the "regarding the cliffton thread that got locked"

    At least WARMAN was fun at times..

    PS BTW, How many years it took you to give up on him and get him out guys??!

    Lets see how many will last the current resident overbearing troll, and his alts.. he's tougher than WARMAN, yet WARMAN had that childlike charm that made everyone like him..

    PPS Maybe the people over at the TWC might find these little isolated incidents interesting too.. might be worth it if someone gives them a heads up..
    Last edited by gallum; 01-15-2019 at 16:00. Reason: lol

  6. #66

    Default Re: regarding the "regarding the cliffton thread that got locked"

    The silence is deafening, we are the "trolls" my friend...

    Member thankful for this post:

    gallum 


  7. #67

    Default Re: regarding the "regarding the cliffton thread that got locked"

    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    The silence is deafening, we are the "trolls" my friend...
    Sorry, did you say something? I can't hear a bloody thing..

  8. #68

    Default Re: regarding the "regarding the cliffton thread that got locked"

    it took an entire crusade to just get re-open a normal thread in the thread that was trolled out of existence..another normal thread that was locked to to another patron basically not agreeing to it, is still closed..

    i was calling deb8 out for all of the watchtower thread, he was nowhere to be seen - aXXXie appeared - first dismissing - then placating - and when i kept calling deb8 out pointing that this was potentially giving away that they were operating in unison, he appeared at that point exactly to troll blatantly and unreservedly..

    deb8s has a pretty exact and informed posting style in general in the main hall regarding the game, yet appeared totally capably trollish in the watchtower thread - the very same as when he came out in the clifton thread..his timing as well as the way he used the language of the watchtower thread [all those expressions that were used by patrons that participated in the thread] - used as bait..

    deb8s behaviour - as well as aXXXies - on the whole confirms what i was saying all along.. that they operate in unison against specific members and points of view..and as cover up one to the other..

    deb8 is used as the casual account of aXXXie in the main hall to more benevolently create traffic - and more aggressively against perceived oponents..

    the watchower thread is again locked after the trolling - with no chance of adding any more to it - and we are back were we started.. right.. great..

  9. #69
    Mr Self Important Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No longer in Albion
    Posts
    15,643
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: regarding the "regarding the cliffton thread that got locked"

    The original thread is opened and sorted with, thus this is not a 'repeat'. I will also merge this thread with the one closed by Hooahguy.

    Now this simply a crusade against Axalon and Deb8. It doesn't contribute to anything other than a personal vendetta against them. As I have previous stated, the accounts were investigated and there is nothing connecting Axalon or Deb8, as to quote "Heroic Efforts" were involved.

    They are both separate long-standing accounts. They both use consistent IPs which are typical of ISP's in their geographical areas (no proxies, TOR, or suspicious IPs). Their geographical areas being thousand miles apart. There is nothing that connects their accounts. Compared with Kikuchiyo for example flagged as an alt account of Caravel instantly.

    Even then, whilst alt accounts are generally frowned upon, action is not enforced unless the rules are broken. Punishments being applied across all accounts. Ban evasion is a clear automatic ban. Or using an alt to insult some-one, so your main account is not tarnished, ends up with a non-lenient infraction on your main account.

    The Watchtower is typically seen as a safe-space as to allow people to vent and talk with minimal enforcement. This is done in the spirit of openness and allow grievances to aired and dealt with, without the 'apparent' secrecy behind closed doors. This is where you can discuss issues such as the locked thread when diplomatic efforts done privately were not resolved. However, abusing this trust placed in the membership to go on a crusade is not clearly not appropriate.

    You can jokingly "play the victim" by "OOoooOOo we are the trolls now", but that is actually demonstrating insight that your behaviour is not acceptable. Just because it is 'Axalon' doesn't mean there are any exceptions. He could be the Pope or Queen Elizabeth or Judas Iscariot, doesn't matter. The behaviour is not acceptable.

    You can receive this warning as "The staff have listened, mission complete" then go about enjoying the parts of the Org that you enjoy, or you could ignore it and face the consequences of those actions. You have used your 'Get Out of Jail Free' card. I leave the outcome entirely in your hands.

    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" - Daryl Davis
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  10. #70

    Default regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar
    The original thread is opened and sorted with, thus this is not a 'repeat'. I will also merge this thread with the one closed by Hooahguy.
    You've merged it and also locked it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar
    Now this simply a crusade against Axalon and Deb8. It doesn't contribute to anything other than a personal vendetta against them. As I have previous stated, the accounts were investigated and there is nothing connecting Axalon or Deb8, as to quote "Heroic Efforts" were involved.
    Brilliant, you've turned it around... your investigation of the accounts doesn't matter. If one is at the south pole and one at the north it's irrelevant.

    You've focused on one aspect of this, one small detail in order to attack and discredit those raising these concerns, without listening to their concerns...

    You also get some beans for appearing to be impartial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar
    Compared with Kikuchiyo for example flagged as an alt account of Caravel instantly.
    Just a great, great example... you remembered that one as well and the name... long memories you have.

    Congratulations on that instant flagging by the way... but it was never a secret though, there were no proxies not even a fake email. Plus I didn't have an active account at the time, so it wasn't an "alt account"... the staff knew who I was but sill played the guessing game in the watchtower.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar
    The Watchtower is typically seen as a safe-space as to allow people to vent and talk with minimal enforcement. This is done in the spirit of openness and allow grievances to aired and dealt with, without the 'apparent' secrecy behind closed doors. This is where you can discuss issues such as the locked thread when diplomatic efforts done privately were not resolved. However, abusing this trust placed in the membership to go on a crusade is not clearly not appropriate.
    You're blind to the actual crusade here...
    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar
    You can jokingly "play the victim" by "OOoooOOo we are the trolls now", but that is actually demonstrating insight that your behaviour is not acceptable.
    Brilliant psychoanalysis, but not quite, I see it still goes on...

    I'm ok with my behaviour because I'm not the self important admin of a computer games forum... I'm honest and open - you are not, I'm not using a secret forum for confer before sending out a solitary rep to deliver a pre-planned response... that's the huge difference between you and I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar
    or you could ignore it and face the consequences of those actions. You have used your 'Get Out of Jail Free' card. I leave the outcome entirely in your hands.
    Your empty threats mean nothing. So you can ban me? Honestly go ahead... it's really no skin off my nose. Almost everyone of my generation has left this site, I have already joined them, you really can't threaten or do anything to me, so don't delude yourself further.

    There's no hard feelings, if that's what you have to do, just do it.

  11. #71

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Originally posted by Beskar
    The original thread is opened and sorted with, thus this is not a 'repeat'. I will also merge this thread with the one closed by Hooahguy.

    Now this simply a crusade against Axalon and Deb8. It doesn't contribute to anything other than a personal vendetta against them. As I have previous stated, the accounts were investigated and there is nothing connecting Axalon or Deb8, as to quote "Heroic Efforts" were involved.

    They are both separate long-standing accounts. They both use consistent IPs which are typical of ISP's in their geographical areas (no proxies, TOR, or suspicious IPs). Their geographical areas being thousand miles apart. There is nothing that connects their accounts. Compared with Kikuchiyo for example flagged as an alt account of Caravel instantly.

    Even then, whilst alt accounts are generally frowned upon, action is not enforced unless the rules are broken. Punishments being applied across all accounts. Ban evasion is a clear automatic ban. Or using an alt to insult some-one, so your main account is not tarnished, ends up with a non-lenient infraction on your main account.

    The Watchtower is typically seen as a safe-space as to allow people to vent and talk with minimal enforcement. This is done in the spirit of openness and allow grievances to aired and dealt with, without the 'apparent' secrecy behind closed doors. This is where you can discuss issues such as the locked thread when diplomatic efforts done privately were not resolved. However, abusing this trust placed in the membership to go on a crusade is not clearly not appropriate.

    You can jokingly "play the victim" by "OOoooOOo we are the trolls now", but that is actually demonstrating insight that your behaviour is not acceptable. Just because it is 'Axalon' doesn't mean there are any exceptions. He could be the Pope or Queen Elizabeth or Judas Iscariot, doesn't matter. The behaviour is not acceptable.

    You can receive this warning as "The staff have listened, mission complete" then go about enjoying the parts of the Org that you enjoy, or you could ignore it and face the consequences of those actions. You have used your 'Get Out of Jail Free' card. I leave the outcome entirely in your hands.

    Its the responses and timing of the responses of teh posters involved [deb8/axalon] that give them away [likely being the same person] Beskar - during 3 related [and plenty of others it would appear] threads:
    1. the MTW DEADLY SINS thread [opened by me in the closing of 2008 and resurrected by deb8 in 2017]
    2. the Clifton thread [opened by a new member in the closing of 2018]
    3. the watchtower thread [spawned by the locking of the clifton thread due to being trolled aggressively by deb8]..

    So, just to put things into perspective, for anyone not familiar with the whole story..

    [Threads made by same people on same topic get locked after trolling by same people]
    1. the Sins thread was opened by me in the closing of 2008 and has contributions by Caravel and others.. the whole thread was discussing iron man rules in order to level the game against the AI.. axalon had participated in that thread originally - apparently had gotten an infraction [by caravel] as he was very hostile against the points being made in the thread..

    The thread was resurrected by deb8 in my absence during 2017 and was mostly trashed [with monolectic statements] by him and in conclusion axalon [with personal insults and demeaning] as well.. the moderator [drone] tried to pull axalon's reins in the trashing but was being told basically off - he ended up with locking the thread..

    2. the clifton thread [ON THE VERY SAME TOPIC AS THE SINS THREAD AND WITH A LINK TO IT] was opened by a completely new member - clifton - in the closing of 2018 that wanted to discuss house rules. caravel gave many clues to the new member and a link to the closely related to the new thread's content SINS thread.. deb8 appeared and aggressively picked on caravel to the point that i re-appeared after a 6.5 years absence and deb8 dissapeared.. the thread started thriving up to a point that deb8 - while i was not online appeared and picked up on caravel even more aggressively than before with straight out confrontational trolling.. drone - locked the thread..

    3. the watchtower thread was opened by me in january 2019 - immediately after the locking of the clifton thread, to discuss the closing of the clifton thread and request the thread being cleared by deb8s trolling and re-opened. It also alluded that deb8 may be axalon as they now suspiciously try to close thraeds on the same topic by the same people.. the staff played what appeared to be delaying/stalling tactics to get me off the back - while half admiting this was a mistaken call - after much pressure by me the clifton thread got re-opened and cleared of deb8.. at that point axalon appeared initially to dismiss, later to placate and divert attention of the point that was being made: ie that he has a pathological grudge against certain posters and their topics..deb8 was nowhere to e found.. and after being called out several times by me, appeared finally to.. also troll this thread into a close..

    From ALL THIS IS CLEAR THAT: axalon has a grudge against the specific topic and against me[gollum], caravel and anyone who might actually discuss or support it/and us. It also raises the question that deb8, that appears to mirror axalon and his fancies and works towards his ends, may be his alt account..

    [IP's as conclusive proof for the existence of alt accounts]
    ..no modder - had he done that - with an account constantly under the cross heirs of the staff due to the mod would make that easy for you to spot..which is why [if i'm right] axalon trumpets that now..

    I have already clearly explained that DEB8 is not my alt-account, and that I have no alts, or that I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two. That is what is relevant here. The administration can formally corroborate all this via IP-numbers, if necessary. Take it up with them, if you must...
    had someone done that - he would have done it as [IP address] to be his alibi, not his nail in the coffin - which the staff could have have found out long before anyone else in the forum notices clues that give it away..

    ..the fact that you can't find how this may be happening doesn't conclusively mean that it can't or doesn't happen.. since you seem to know this, perhaps you should tone the conclusive tone of the response a bit..

    [wathtower thread clues]
    as i wrote previously axalon moves in first [when deb8 that was involved in the closing of the clifton thread that spawned the watchtower thread was nowhere to be seen despite called out] the watchtower thread[right after your answer [#39], to set the tone] to manipulate the impressions with his "prestigious dismissivness"intially smugly and impolitely dimsissing and - [supposedly] leaving - which is what he usually 95% of the time does - to come back a few posts later - making[by axalon standrards] an about/180degree turn, to placate and divert attention.. this about turn is like a solar eclipse for aXXXie standards - pretty rare, all the more so when i am involved, as i'm sure you'll have noticed by now..

    axalon moves from:

    . What is true is that I do think that Caravel, Gollum (and Martok) are indeed ridiculous people - just look at this thread.
    in the first response, to:

    I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two.
    - - his posts [#53 & #65] in the sins thread totally discredit this..

    Its interesting that Martok is also targeted now - in his absence - drone buddy, seems you're next mate, is this why you always back down?..

    deb8 has been called out by me in several instances in the watchtower thread [posts: 1, 11, 26, 42, 46] and came out immediately after the last one [post 46] when it was clear axalon was being discredited by his absence and only his appearance would have toned this down..until then nowhere to be seen depsite having been him that did the trolling that resulted in the [clifton] thread closing and being alluded [in the watchtower thread] to be an alt acount..

    When he finally did appear, he went on to troll to his heart's content - there was no real discussion or anything..his 'excuse' that he had better to do than bother with caravel is..totally discredited by his actions-deb8 trolled aggressively caravel in the clifton thread that was thriving..while i was not online..deb8 logged in in several instances before replying to the watchtower thread and logged out every time he saw me.. he wanted to start his reply without me online..

    deb8 is pretty 'sane' and actually very exact and informed when posting about the game, in several threads in the main hall..but behaved like a complete and pretty nasty troll [using apparent naivete] in the watchtower thread..and a very clever one too.. watch how he played with the expressions used in the various instances in all these exchanges, he used:
    "drivel" - used sarcastically, from axalon's snobish drivel, in the sins thread
    "hyberbolic rant" - mirroring ludens in the watchtower thread and so get me 'worked up'
    "duped" - [used probably sarcastically]- its from a post in my mod thread that i linked in. It has a fix for the BGs suicidal behaviour - something aXXXie doesn't want you to know that i did and publicised - probably because he's using it since then in his mod too

    IF, axalon=deb8 - this is incredibly clever trolling masqueraded as false naivete - using the naivete as a screen to unleash under its guise his frustrated spite in an effort to get me worked up under your[the staff] very nose..

    And then there was the personal tone and abusive wording..towards of course [accidentally, i'm sure] yours trully - no comment needed all very clear, if its aXXXie and especially if i'm right and he risks being exposed - or would have to tone down the deb8/aXXXie collaborations in teh future..

    ..even the theme of the abuse used by deb8
    "including you"
    , echoes axalon's
    "this wont cut with me"
    .. aXXXie mate, dont get worked up that people take my word at face value.. its because i wear my heart on my sleeve, treat all well and fairly, speak the truth and move about with regard to others - all these things you mostly dont do mate..

    What's also very interesting, is how deb8 and axalon never appeared in the watchtower thread together.. obviously - if they are the same person - would be extra work to make it appear natural and not give any more clues away, so it would have been avoided - conveniently, and the two reconvene [which is their usual mode - see many main hall threads..] long after i'm gone.. impressions in such threads last forever, and dear aXXXie chooses wisely only those that benefit him -never something that could hurt him in the future.. pretty interesting

    was deb8 reprimanted for the trolling in the wachtower thread by the way??!

    [clifton thread clues]
    the same he[deb8] did in the clifton thread [posts removed so now i can't showcase] - with a different style [than in the sins thread] he trolled it aggressively and timely to oblivion..he let some water run after my re-appearance as not to give target and then, when i wasn't logged in he aggressively picking on caravel that he now rather likes

    axalon didnt appear in the clifton thread, because i immediately pin-pointed him in anything else but name..and everyone picked up on that including drone so someone else had to spoil the fun as otherwise it would have been too obvious - since they[?] know they[?] can always count on your staff for locking the threads they troll..[troll "accidentally" always on the same points, by the same posters ]

    axalon - completely by coincidence obviously, trumpeted the fact [that he wasn't involved in the clifton thread]:
    Enjoy the re-opened cliffton-thread, that I never was a party in...
    , you guessed it: in his placating [watchtower thread] response that tried to divert attention..

    [Sins thread clues]
    you can see how i get a "warning" by drone in the clifton thread, not to tread there[in rivalry ground] - because drone knows i will subside - which i jokingly as ever do.. compare aXXXie when he gets a little editing after plenty of dirty demolishing/trashing by him and [you guessed it] deb8 of absent members in an 8 year old resurrected in 2017[by deb8 - conveniently] thread [MTW DEADLY SINS - started by me in the closing of 2008]: aXXXie demolishing Sins thread and its posters then_
    drone trying to pull aXXXie's reins in the sins thread and finally_ aXXXie's trashing drone and the thread/posters reply

    all the while a certain deb8 runs circles around anyone supporting the Sins thread [that he resurrected to trash with monolectic statements] and the points it makes.. he interestingly collaborates with axalon, helping him to mention certain things about certain "ridicoulous" and absent people, as well as giving him a reason to comment conclusively "in retrospect" and to debunk [!] [their words] them and their points - notice how mature is deb8 in that post, how cleverly sharp are his comments - nothing like the naive "awkward" troll in the watchtower thread - and how well they mirror each other - like echo in the mountains..all coincidence obviously..and then??! you guessed it: the thread gets locked

    [Having to go through strains to get a normal thread on topic only when one person is trolling it, continuously over time]
    As far as going back to places of the forums we enjoy we were doing just that as we always have been - it was your staff's mistaken/placating to trolling call that got them closed - on the same topic, over a few years, after the same patrons troll them..
    and it took one and a half thread pages[you finally took action in the watchtower thread at post #39 - and "apologised" [you put the apology part in the edit.. it wasn't part of the response, just an afterthought for diplomacy's sake] for being late while all the while the moderators were keeping me at bay and so by dragging it to keep it all sleeping - thanks for the apologies matey ] and me not backing down to any tricks you staff had up your sleeve to keep this sleeping - despite what i was saying being teh obvious - ie that there was nothing wrong with the clifton thread[equally with the sins thread], just with a single poster of it.. but you guys knew that[i mean all the connections and behind the scenes rivalry] - hence why you locked the thread and played it down afterwards as not to open what amounts from your point of view to a can of worms.. the same you do now - put it to sleep..

    no hard feelings - i - in many respects, understand you.. NOT THE PLACATING PART TO SOMETHING THAT ITS OBVIOUSLY WRONG FOR THE ENTIRE BOARD THOUGH..

    the whole forum is now placating an aggressive, two-faced, sociopathic troll and an account with whom they operate like two hands of the same person in tone, and timing and scope in a number of threads against specific people/points of view [and its not just me and caravel - reluctant samurai, girlandir, tyberious, stazi on occasion and plenty of others have been targeted over the years]..

    [Rivalry]
    as far as the rivalry is concerned, i'll tell you what: nor i - nor caravel [nor Martok since aXXXie mentioned him]- started it nor maintained it - ever - and anyone not an alt account of aXXXie will tell you that..

    When axalon first appeared (early fall 2008 - if memory serves) in the MTW section [which due to the membership - the leading patrons was THE PLACE TO BE for all things MTW] of the org, everyone treated him in the same way we treated all: helpfully, welcomingly, nicely, fairly.. we all quickly realised that axalon wasn't interested in any of that.. axalon wanted to be correct and better than anyone else, even on occasions that this couldn't or wouldn't happen.. if he was proven wrong or had to back down, he would be furious..sulk and hold a grudge FOR EVER.. and that is still the case.. he also proved incredibly possessive.. he wasn't inetersted in sharing anything, and always had to have the last word and be correct and vindicated.. its always black and white with him - his way or the highway - and if he can't completely impose this, its all macchinations and manipulation to maneuver into position and nothing more..

    we all became painfully aware that axalon wasn't interested in being part of the community, axalon wanted to dominate the community, supplant it - and by now he does that with the entire forum wherever its to his interest..

    Over time, he abandoned any meaningful discourse and turned into a bulldozer on the outside - rude, overbearing, totally smug with a foul air of authority.. by now, anything he says or writes is only to manipulate and dominate.. appearances is all he ever cares about, which says it all..

    Having to be this way [with the axalon account], to promote his mod and political agenda around it and ambitions, it would make perfect sense to have a "casual" newby type account - with which to relax, be able to actually ask and discuss things and not having to care if he's proven wrong, and also use as backup or for the sake of "convenience" whenever necessary..

    and plenty of deb8/axalon collaborations/co-appearances - some benevolent and some [very] malevolent appear to corroborate all this..


    There were chapter after chapter after chapter of bad blood in his endless quest for domination.. the feud with Tyberious - another modder that appeared at the same time as him [misnomer, he basically just trashed the poor unsuspected guy and got him litteraly out of commission..], when he got demoted from moderator in the TWC, and in endless occasions here.. we've lost count.. you talk to me about feuds? - who is the common factor in all the feuds in the MTW land? You guessed it its aXXXie.. axalon and tyberious, axalon and gollum, axalon and caravel, axalon and Martok, axalon and.. basically everyone else [and especially other modders for..obvious reaons..] - EXCEPT DEB8 OF COURSE ..

    maybe you are going about this the wrong way and give him every now and then a good temporary ban to cool him off instead of rising the placation level to the point that you lock threads that even allude to his presence and/or dislike of the topic and posters like the clifton/sins threads??!.. - just saying..

    [notice how staff and membership dread even at the mentioning of him regarding a topic everyone knows he doesn't like - yet its completely legitimate and at the right forum, its his presence that creates the dread..: drone in the clifton thread, drone in the watchtower thread #6, drone in the watchtower thread #10, Stazi in the watchtower thread

    this all results from the constant half-coveted bullying of everyone and everything he doesn't like..]

    the fact that my/our threads are resurrected to get trolled 8 years after they were made and in my absence says it all..and when a new thread, by a new member on the same topic is also immediately trolled [by the same DEBATE_Y guy] - its hillarious - it makes the whole board look like a nasty place - not to mention that i wouldn't want to be clifton.. being a pawn on someone's on going vengeful agenda..

    In 2012, before the org awards, axalon - without any provocation withdrew his mod from participating in the voting, and posted a drool of hate towards me, which he then proceeded to delete..as he realised that it was doing him a disservice in his clientelle and the community in general - people were picking up on him.. Stazi certainly seen that post - as he managed to reply - and probably Andres who had been just promoted to Admin..
    ..my mod went on to take the award with quite a large number of voters considering participation in the voting/awards that year..

    i guess he did the right thing because - had my mod won the award while his was a candidate too - he would probably have to kill himself, being such a nice balanced chap.... so its better to troll with an alt account and trash my threads and me in my absence instead..8 years later - the courageous type

    axalon is in an ongoing quest to quench the forum from anything he perceives as a threat - and he went on - very methodically and calculatingly in the sins thread, with an alt account that he "built" in public face over time and that he unleashed when i was long gone and certain not to defend it..

    he just never calculated that i'd be back.. and most likely got very worked up when i posted this in the clifton thread..
    which leaves me with very little else to do ,since a 10 years lapse has not been enough to cure the animosities and hatreds, than having to take all said animosity and hatred as a compliment..
    its probably what got the thread troll-closed..

    all this is just another chapter in this story..

    everything points to the fact that you are dealing with a very methodical and nasty sociopath

    aXXXie, caravel - that you now that i'm back started to like - said you should ask them to change your medication, he said its not working matey..

    [nothing left to do..]
    ..so when someone-s who is rivalling me when i dont him [i never write methodically, periodically and in a targeted manner against anyone], targets me by any means and you play along to his means that go against forum rules - what am i to do then??!

    ..its ok Beskar: keep your jail cards and - as far as i am concerned your jail too..


    PS the thanks in this post, says it all .. aXXXie..ermm sorry i mean deb8 mate: that was the trolling i enjoyed the most..really ingenious, i might even give redux a try for that

    PPS sorry it was me of all people that found you out aXXXie.. still love you, though
    Last edited by gallum; 01-17-2019 at 15:23. Reason: added material/re-arranged

  12. #72

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Apologies for the double posting, it was accidental..
    Last edited by gallum; 01-17-2019 at 12:18.

  13. #73
    Mr Self Important Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No longer in Albion
    Posts
    15,643
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    Apologies for the double posting, it was accidental..
    That is okay. I will respond properly to your post tonight when I have adequate opportunity to.
    Last edited by Beskar; 01-16-2019 at 13:57.
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" - Daryl Davis
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

    Member thankful for this post:

    gallum 


  14. #74
    Mr Self Important Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No longer in Albion
    Posts
    15,643
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    Your investigation of the accounts doesn't matter. If one is at the south pole and one at the north it's irrelevant. You've focused on one aspect of this, one small detail in order to attack and discredit those raising these concerns, without listening to their concerns...
    This in paradoxical in the sense because we listened to your concerns, we investigated it. We have found no evidence which links both together. More accurately, you don't like the conclusion given and that is not the same as not being listened to.

    You also get some beans for appearing to be impartial.
    The aim to be fair and impartial comes with the territory. We make mistakes but the goal is there to create fairness for everyone.

    Just a great, great example... you remembered that one as well and the name... long memories you have.

    Congratulations on that instant flagging by the way... but it was never a secret though, there were no proxies not even a fake email. Plus I didn't have an active account at the time, so it wasn't an "alt account"... the staff knew who I was but sill played the guessing game in the watchtower.
    Unfortunately this is where you project your own persecution. No one to my knowledge, most certainly me, don't hold any grudges or issues with you. To my knowledge, Andres whilst he was an admin and I believe is a friend to you was trying to reconcile any issues with you, which included access to the staff area due to previous contributions which you declined. You really do need to let this idea go.

    As for 'long memories' it says right next to your name "other accounts" and that is just from the forums automatic software and zero effort required. It also says next to your name 'requires email validation' and a look at your account (a two second job) tells me you purposefully now locked yourself out of your own account by putting an invalid email address after your post.

    You are going to come back to read this, and if you send us an email, I can easily give you back access to your account. I only ask, is this behaviour really an example of the sensible and reasonable gentleman you protray as? I know you are better than that, so don't sell yourself short


    I'm ok with my behaviour because I'm not the self important admin of a computer games forum... I'm honest and open - you are not, I'm not using a secret forum for confer before sending out a solitary rep to deliver a pre-planned response... that's the huge difference between you and I.
    Where do you come up with this Caravel? Genuinely.
    This goes into my earlier statement, there is nothing closed or secretative at all. The Org does not employ script writers, there has been no 'conferring' as implied conspiracy sense. There is no secret anti-caravel league. As for my reply, I am currently on a short break in a 13.5 hour busy hospital shift on my phone doing this quick reply to you and arguably wasting my time doing so, but here I am, trying to reach out to you regardless.

    Your empty threats mean nothing. So you can ban me? Honestly go ahead... it's really no skin off my nose. Almost everyone of my generation has left this site, I have already joined them, you really can't threaten or do anything to me, so don't delude yourself further.

    There's no hard feelings, if that's what you have to do, just do it.
    You went out of line and you know this. There isn't an argument as we agree. So where is the issue?

    You can choose your self-imposed exile or just drop us an email and we will return access to your account. As I said in the last message, this is entirely your choice.

    I have no personal problems with you and if you decide this is where you part, I hope life treats you well.
    Last edited by Beskar; 01-16-2019 at 13:59.
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" - Daryl Davis
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  15. #75

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    That is okay. I will respond properly to your post tonight when I have adequate opportunity to.
    I will be interested to read your reply - but if you dont have the time or dont want, its ok.. all i'm trying to say all the while since i re-appeared is the following:

    this place [in general and especially in the MTW section] used to be like this:

    _________________________________ Click image for larger version. 

Name:	park.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	231.0 KB 
ID:	22090__which is why i was totally sold to it..

    just - please - dont let it become like this:Click image for larger version. 

Name:	kim.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	75.7 KB 
ID:	22091

    Last edited by gallum; 01-17-2019 at 12:12. Reason: typos

  16. #76

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Guess who...

    Missed my flight so a known IP will have to do... damn..
    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    This in paradoxical in the sense because we listened to your concerns, we investigated it. We have found no evidence which links both together. More accurately, you don't like the conclusion given and that is not the same as not being listened to.
    I was not the one raising those "concerns". My concerns were very different, you've certainly not listened to those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Unfortunately this is where you project your own persecution.
    Brilliant... more of the psychoanalysis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No one to my knowledge, most certainly me, don't hold any grudges or issues with you. To my knowledge, Andres whilst he was an admin and I believe is a friend to you was trying to reconcile any issues with you, which included access to the staff area due to previous contributions which you declined. You really do need to let this idea go.
    So at the first opportunity - "Kikuchiyo", then onto your further analysis...

    (To set the record straight - access to the staff area was refused, repeatedly, so you have been misinformed just a bit there...)

    I have not sought to dredge all that up - that's entirely your doing...
    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    It also says next to your name 'requires email validation' and a look at your account (a two second job) tells me you purposefully now locked yourself out of your own account by putting an invalid email address after your post.
    Correct, not for he first time... nor the only account...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    You are going to come back to read this
    As I said - brilliant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    and if you send us an email, I can easily give you back access to your account. I only ask, is this behaviour really an example of the sensible and reasonable gentleman you protray as? I know you are better than that, so don't sell yourself short
    I repeat that I have not "misbehaved" in any way. Others have, repeatedly and the staff let all of that slide for years...

    You have taken a great deal of time to reply to me and slyly bring up some past misdemeanours, but you have done zero with regards to the real troll ('trolls' if you will - I stated from the off that I couldn't care less if they're one and the same...).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    This goes into my earlier statement, there is nothing closed or secretative at all. The Org does not employ script writers, there has been no 'conferring' as implied conspiracy sense. There is no secret anti-caravel league.
    Again brilliant..

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    As for my reply, I am currently on a short break in a 13.5 hour busy hospital shift on my phone doing this quick reply to you and arguably wasting my time doing so, but here I am, trying to reach out to you regardless.
    So sorry to have taken up your time Mr Self Important Administrator of a kids game site with a day job to boot...

    I also registered a whole new account just to reply to you

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    You went out of line and you know this.
    You need to stop telling people what they know/think... your role here has gone to your head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    I have no personal problems with you and if you decide this is where you part, I hope life treats you well.
    No hard feelings, but we just don't agree, on too may levels.

    As for the rest - gollum said it all in that long post. Nothing to add...

  17. #77
    Mr Self Important Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No longer in Albion
    Posts
    15,643
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    Its the responses and timing of the responses of teh posters involved [deb8/axalon] that give them away [likely being the same person]
    [IP's as conclusive proof for the existence of alt accounts]
    I will respond to this one straight off the bat, Deb8 and Axalon are not the same person.

    I won't divulge personal details and I will refuse all requests, but when you operate a website, you have access to a lot of information from times people access the website, how long, from where they access it from (directly or via a link), and further such information. People also volunteer information when they sign up to the Org. For example, secret question and secret answer. This is used to confirm identity in case of an issue. So people will share things like their street name, the name of their dog, etc. There is also "Date of Birth" and whilst you see today that "Today's Birthdays:" people have given full information informing us they are 52 years old for example.
    People can also tie in information such as steam names or facebook information to their account. In a manner which is quite frightening when pieced together, can end up giving far more information.

    Back in 2008, these privacy concerns were even more relaxed and social media was not as big of a thing back then. People use their person names when signing up to websites such as joe.bloggs@hotmail.com. Now some of these can be faked or an alias used, others can choose not to disclose information, we can still gather a rough picture.

    Now for a troll account, you would think privacy measures would be used. Both Deb8 and Axalon have not. As such, I have a clear picture of their personal information and they are separate individuals living thousands of miles apart. I have even seen their homes on Google maps. So for example, I know Deb8 has lived in the same house since 2008. Whilst Axalon has his primary location at home, but has accessed the Org when away.

    Given the information, such as them both accessing the Org at the same places whilst thousands miles apart, I am safe that they are both separate individuals.

    Now, are they friends who regularly chat on skype or discord or steam? No idea and it doesn't matter, no rules against that.

    [Threads made by same people on same topic get locked after trolling by same people]
    2. the clifton thread [ON THE VERY SAME TOPIC AS THE SINS THREAD AND WITH A LINK TO IT]
    This has been brought up and we are aware of this issue. Whilst I never access the MTW area myself unless circumstances force me there, measures have been done to allow the second 'Clifton thread' on the subject to be open and with the view it is allowed to continue happily without interference which I will keep an eye on myself time to time. (Please report if it goes side-tracked for faster notice by myself).
    I also read through it today and it looks like the thread is healthily on track and looking good. It was great to see.

    3. the watchtower thread
    When threads go off-topic and spiral between posters. It is usual rule of thumb to lock and close topics. In this circumstance, this 'usual rule of thumb' was a hasty call based on how major it spiralled out of control within an hour and a half due to the ability of the moderators involved not able to have access to deal with it appropriately at that time. Before they were able to deal with the matter, it was brought to the Watchtower where frustration was vented towards them. As I thought the matter was being handled, I did not intervene, till I noticed it still continued then I stepped in myself to remedy the grievances, allowing that topic to be re-opened and applying sanctions.
    The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel. This led to Hooahguy making the call to close the thread as it was inappropriate.

    From ALL THIS IS CLEAR THAT: axalon has a grudge against the specific topic and against me[gollum], caravel and anyone who might actually discuss or support it/and us. It also raises the question that deb8, that appears to mirror axalon and his fancies and works towards his ends, may be his alt account..
    [Rivalry]
    Over time, he abandoned any meaningful discourse and turned into a bulldozer on the outside - rude, overbearing, totally smug with a foul air of authority.. by now, anything he says or writes is only to manipulate and dominate.. appearances is all he ever cares about, which says it all..
    As you say, there are grudges involved and unfortunately, life is like that, people hold grudges and people don't like people. I have never given an infraction to someone who dislikes me on the basis they dislike me. We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.
    So the fact Deb8 or Axalon don't like you, or vice-versus, the solution is to place them on ignore, don't respond to it, and if they break the rules, report them. The solution is not to fight it out in the topic, Watchtower or elsewhere, as if it was the Hunger games, forcing staff to intervene.

    You are perfectly free to think "Axalon is a bit of a twat", you are however not allowed to post this on the forums repeatedly.

    you finally took action in the watchtower thread at post #39 - and "apologised" [you put the apology part in the edit.. it wasn't part of the response, just an afterthought for diplomacy's sake] for being late while all the while the moderators were keeping me at bay and so by dragging it to keep it all sleeping - thanks for the apologies matey ]
    I regularly edit and review my posts. This is to fix errors and express myself more clearly. This is because I am aware of mistakes I make once I walked away from something then come back to it with fresh-eyes, part and parcel of my dyslexia. Therother once joked that my own personal self-edits takes up 3GB in the database itself. Reading more into my edits than that is on your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnothimagain View Post
    Guess who...
    I also registered a whole new account just to reply to you
    Don't worry, I won't allow it to go to this Self-Important Administer's head.
    Last edited by Beskar; 01-17-2019 at 18:19.
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" - Daryl Davis
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

    Member thankful for this post:

    DEB8 


  18. #78

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel. This led to Hooahguy making the call to close the thread as it was inappropriate.
    You've turned this around brilliantly... Axalon/DEB8 has been allowed to troll his arse of for a decade and the staff have done nothing, except lock threads and blame those they are trolling. You, a relative newcomer, have turned up telling me how it is and you don't have even half the facts. You've spent your time on a little investigation regarding the alt accounts thing - to prove they are not the same - you've ignored the rest of it. Tell me in view of this, why should I care anymore?

    The troll(s), one incarnation of which views this site and its staff with utter contempt, must be laughing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    As you say, there are grudges involved and unfortunately, life is like that, people hold grudges and people don't like people. I have never given an infraction to someone who dislikes me on the basis they dislike me. We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.
    So the fact Deb8 or Axalon don't like you, or vice-versus, the solution is to place them on ignore, don't respond to it, and if they break the rules, report them.
    Ax can't be ignored as he's a moderator... ;)

    Advising to use the ignore list is again another example of where you have just dismissed all the concerns and placed the burden on those dealing with this character...
    Last edited by caravel; 01-17-2019 at 18:44.

  19. #79

    Default Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    I have even seen their homes on Google maps.
    have you looked inside?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    , I am safe that they are both separate individuals.
    Which is what i was saying: safe to say doesnt= absolutely certain.. then?..

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel
    ??!! the watchtower thread got closed down because deb8 trolled it to oblivion after he appeared - as i said he would.. the thread didn't get derailed by me or caravel during the ex-changes with axalon - i was maybe sarcastic, but not aggressive to him - your admin moved in for the closure ONLY after deb8 appeared and not before..

    have you actually read the closing of the thread?? sounds from your reply that you haven't.. if not please do, otherwise there's no point discussing..

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.
    I didn't see anyone being sanctioned in the sins thread.. i was absent.. you locked it.. me and my points discredited and insulted and your moderator told off.. case closed..

    And - as i said - it took a lot of "convincing" from my part to "sanction" the obvious - ie re-open the clifton thread and clear it from trolling.. where the rules were clearly being broken by someone else and not me and everyone that was participating and having fun - isnt this what the board is all about?.. yet you didnt protect that.. as i said [over and over] it took a lot of convincing against the grain

    you make it appear as if your system works clockwork - when its anything but..

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    You are perfectly free to think "Axalon is a bit of a twat", you are however not allowed to post this on the forums repeatedly.
    i actually never wrote that anywhere in the board until now, despite axalon insulting me [and almost everyone else] over and over and over again over many years, i've left axalon in peace and never bothered him - its the reverse that didnt happen - so i guess at some point when things pile up you need to defend yourself - especially when - judging from what it took to re-open the clifton thread..


    as i explained in the rivalry part above - i'm not the only one being treated this way by the specfic patron or have the same impression.. but its your board and you make the calls etc.

    ..had axalon left everything on the floor as i always do with him - i would welcome the co-existence and even collaboration and discussion, and in some instances we managed to almost brush that - but when an 8 year old thread of mine got spam infested, troll hijacked, trashed and i was personally insulted therein and the thread got closed - and the very same topic thread opened up by a new member, NOT ME, got trolled by the same person as the sins thread - then i guess there's very little else to do but bringing this up to the staff and membership with the hope that the rules will be finally obeyed and i will be left in peace to enjoy the boards as i please within the framework of the rules - as i always did..

    Originally posted by caravel
    Ax can't be ignored as he's a moderator... ;)

    Advising to use the ignore list is again another example of where you have just dismissed all the concerns and placed the burden on those dealing with this character...
    Sounds like that - large parts of the board are organised around him [deb8 is the main hall now] - obviously we dont weigh in political importance anymore hence the onus seems to always be on us.. its ok, that's natural..

    Anyway, Beskar lets leave it here, no point going over ex-changes between us anymore [you are welcome to reply of course, just know that after this i'm off] - i made my points over and over for those interested - you seem not to either have read them or be completely disinterested to understand them.. its your board and your call..

    in a way, you are right - i am not active and obviously being treated with that in mind too - i guess its a factor - not minor one.. everyone makes their choices and i've made mine and left..

    axalon and others made theirs and stayed.. its naive of me to think that the board would be the place i've left or known.. different conditions/people [in the staff and membership] create different environments and everyone has to go with their choices..

    ..so lets leave it here.. farewell
    Last edited by gallum; 01-17-2019 at 18:55. Reason: typos

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO