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Thread: Cliffton thread & Axalon/Deb8

  1. #1
    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Cliffton thread & Axalon/Deb8

    This is meant towards the org staff in general and those that have to do with the MTW section in particular:

    the previous, cliffton started thread was a well behaved, well informed thread by the admission of all patrons that participated and it did nothing wrong to no one - the DEBATE [DEB8] guy highjacked it quite clearly at a particular timing towards a confrontatinal pre-destined direction that seems to suit his ends, and instead of getting him out of the thread, the thread got closed..

    This is bending under pressure from one single person and i'm not even sure who that DEBATE guy really is and for whom he is DEBATING ABOUT, the way he jumps into certain particular things everytime..

    Org staff of the medieval section you are clearly going about this the wrong way it seems to me and you are digging the MTW section's hole.. might as well call it the redux section and let axalon "moderate" it.. will make for some interesting "DEBATES"..

    Too bad..
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-09-2019 at 07:28. Reason: added material

  2. #2
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Wow, just WOW!? The next thread about Iron Man rules goes off road. It's quite interesting. What is so different in this subject that makes people so eager to fight about everything, even some imagined, nonexistent offends? Probably some people just like to debate no matter of a subject.

    @gollum - mentioning Axalon in the way you did is not the healthiest way to argue. Going personal is just why the "Iron Man" topic was closed. btw I'm surprised caravel took the bait. It was clear it won't go unnoticed by moderators.

    I understand why drone closed the thread. Probably, it was like "Geeez, I have better things to do than diving into this pile of.. irrelevant comments. Let's stop it for good." Deleting all comments starting from 49 and dropping a warning for certain participants would be IMHO a better option but he did what he did.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  3. #3

    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    I doubt that making a thread about the locked thread will change much...

    It's an .org culture thing - any kind of dispute or discussion among members is silenced, censored, etc. Threads are locked or hacked up.

    The result is that the forum is pretty much dull and lifeless and I never thought I would see the day where there would be more MTW and STW related traffic at the TWC...

    The .org has the opportunity to keep the maturer players on board, but is instead moderating us out of existence...

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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    What is so different in this subject that makes people so eager to fight about everything, even some imagined, nonexistent offends? Probably some people just like to debate no matter of a subject.
    Certain people see a thread or post with certain usernames attached and it causes decade old grudges to resurface... it's as simple as that, not about "iron man rules" at all. It doesn't have to be iron man rules as such, could be anything and in fact it has been, it doesn't matter what those posters are posting, it's the fact that it's those posters who are posting it...

    If you read the original, resurrected thread you will see all of this - plain as day. No need to speculate or guess...

    You've certainly been around long enough to have seen this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    @gollum - mentioning Axalon in the way you did is not the healthiest way to argue. Going personal is just why the "Iron Man" topic was closed.
    You are merely speculating as to why the thread was closed.

    What I find interesting is that you have a practically dead forum - with (as I said) more STW and MTW activity at TWC - and you have a moderator here closing the only active threads because of a little "debate".
    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    btw I'm surprised caravel took the bait. It was clear it won't go unnoticed by moderators.
    Of course it wasn't going to go unnoticed. I haven't taken any "bait" as such, I've only responded to comments directed towards me, while posting legitimate content and trying to keep the thread on topic...

    But for some, their long standing grudge always comes first, hence the predictable slide into oblivion...
    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I understand why drone closed the thread.
    Whereas I do not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    Probably, it was like "Geeez, I have better things to do than diving into this pile of.. irrelevant comments. Let's stop it for good." Deleting all comments starting from 49 and dropping a warning for certain participants would be IMHO a better option but he did what he did.
    You can only speculate. I'm not trying to get inside the head of any .org staff or understand the rationale for why the thread was closed. In my opinion there was no need to close the thread and there is no need to censor or hack up the thread.

    At the most, the thread could have been split.
    Last edited by caravel; 01-09-2019 at 10:41.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Deleting all comments starting from 49 and dropping a warning for certain participants would be IMHO a better option but he did what he did
    Agreed.

    The result is that the forum is pretty much dull and lifeless and I never thought I would see the day where there would be more MTW and STW related traffic at the TWC
    A sad state of affairs brought on by changing times and mis-judgements (IMHO) by the ORG staff

    And with a steadily declining active membership, the future here at the ORG doesn't appear too bright.....

    Again, it's just a damn game (and a very good one) meant to be enjoyed rather than debated on which is the proper way to play it....
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 01-09-2019 at 12:59.
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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    The thread was closed because there were 17 straight useless, off-topic posts in an hour and an half timeframe. A new member creates a thread and it gets hijacked by old grievances, a lovely first impression of the .Org. I may have overreacted, but Tosa's words rang true: Topic was tired and needed a nap.

    The proper place for a thread like this is the Watchtower. My incompetence as a moderator should be brought up there where the admins will take your complaints and viewpoints.
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    Default yet more thread locking...

    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    The thread was closed because there were 17 straight useless, off-topic posts in an hour and an half timeframe.
    As opposed to pretty much nothing at all being posted most of the time and most of the traffic seemingly going to TWC...? Back in the day, there was a lot of "offtopic" banter on these forums, not the airing of these nasty grudges, but a lot of humorous posts intertwined with the more ontopic stuff... that was part of made it what it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    A new member creates a thread and it gets hijacked by old grievances, a lovely first impression of the .Org. I may have overreacted, but Tosa's words rang true: Topic was tired and needed a nap.
    The two most recent threads having locks on them doesn't look great either... look again: you had quite a few members making constructive posts and discussing iron man rules and other aspects of the game - the exchange between DEB8 and I was a mere sideshow...
    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    My incompetence as a moderator should be brought up there where the admins will take your complaints and viewpoints.
    You've introduced a false dilemma, i.e. a choice between tolerating the status quo or "officially" complaining about you. On a forum of this size, which such a small community and considering our history, complaining about you to others is not my preferred route.

    Also based on my experience of .org staff - they will of course side with you, so the invitation to go the watchtower is as good as an invitation to fuck right off - "my way or the highway". It's disappointing, but that's essentially what you're offering.

    That's not how I operate - running off to a feedback subforum to complain about a moderator... but more importantly a member I have posted alongside for years. I have approached you directly and also by PM...

    So, it would seem that the highway beckons (again).
    Last edited by caravel; 01-09-2019 at 14:20.

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  8. #8
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: yet more thread locking...

    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    You've introduced a false dilemma, i.e. a choice between tolerating the status quo or "officially" complaining about you. On a forum of this size, which such a small community and considering our history, complaining about you to others is not my preferred route.

    Also based on my experience of .org staff - they will of course side with you, so the invitation to go the watchtower is as good as an invitation to fuck right off - "my way or the highway". It's disappointing, but that's essentially what you're offering.

    That's not how I operate - running off to a feedback subforum to complain about a moderator... but more importantly a member I have posted alongside for years. I have approached you directly and also by PM...

    So, it would seem that the highway beckons (again).
    I'm not so sure I would agree. I know I'm far from the best mod on this forum, I'm active but I'm not really a people person. Frankly I think I got the job because I was a reasonably well-behaved warm body that was actively contributing to the MTW sections. I'm not telling you guys to sod off, if you have problems with the way I moderate the forum bring them up in the Watchtower, and maybe I will learn something. I don't like locking threads, but giving out warnings and infractions isn't going to solve anything either as 1.) the time between active topics guarantees point expiration, and 2.) if nothing has changed in 10 years I don't have any illusions about my ability to stop the sniping with warnings that will inevitably be construed as favoritism by all sides.

    Also, complaining about my moderating in the MTW forums means we have off-topic threads where all of the old bad blood is visible on the board. The first complaint thread even brought up members who had nothing to do with the original issue, how is this helpful?
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    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: yet more thread locking...

    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    As opposed to pretty much nothing at all being posted most of the time and most of the traffic seemingly going to TWC...? Back in the day, there was a lot of "offtopic" banter on these forums, not the airing of these nasty grudges, but a lot of humorous posts intertwined with the more ontopic stuff... that was part of made it what it was.

    The two most recent threads having locks on them doesn't look great either... look again: you had quite a few members making constructive posts and discussing iron man rules and other aspects of the game - the exchange between DEB8 and I was a mere sideshow...
    I am not so sure either: the exchange may have been a sideshow to you, but to me it felt like an old grudge that threatened to dominate and possibly derail the thread, without adding anything of value. And while I didn't moderate the Main Hall "back in the day", I would have stepped in if such an exchange occurred on a forum I was moderating.

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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: yet more thread locking...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I understand why drone closed the thread. Probably, it was like "Geeez, I have better things to do than diving into this pile of.. irrelevant comments. Let's stop it for good." Deleting all comments starting from 49 and dropping a warning for certain participants would be IMHO a better option but he did what he did.
    Pretty much this. I could have spent the time to purge the thread, but what was written was already read so it was just going to continue. I was AFK this weekend and specifically asked the staff to watch this thread because I knew where it was headed. I was pleasantly surprised when I got back that the thread was still on-topic (if lively), and appreciate that it didn't go off the rails until later in the day and Ludens or other staff did not have to deal with it in my absence.

    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    As opposed to pretty much nothing at all being posted most of the time and most of the traffic seemingly going to TWC...? Back in the day, there was a lot of "offtopic" banter on these forums, not the airing of these nasty grudges, but a lot of humorous posts intertwined with the more ontopic stuff... that was part of made it what it was.
    I let all kinds of off-topic banter go on in threads, but "banter" is not what was going on here. I don't go to TWC, are these nasty grudges brought up in threads there? Do the mods there tolerate this behavior, or is this stuff just reserved for the .Org? Maybe TWC's increased STW/MTW traffic comes from the fact that new members do not have to navigate 10 year old feuds.
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    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    The thread was closed because there were 17 straight useless, off-topic posts in an hour and an half timeframe. A new member creates a thread and it gets hijacked by old grievances, a lovely first impression of the .Org. I may have overreacted, but Tosa's words rang true: Topic was tired and needed a nap.
    The topic didn't got tired by itself. You are using words of an authority figure to justify a VERY BAD DECISION The DEB8 guy is clearly trolling [he's highjacked/derailed a thread on the same topic 3 times over MANY YEARS] and he's the only one doing so in that thread. EVERYONE ELSE HAD A NICE TIME EVEN PRAISING THE THREAD, HE SHOWS UP AND MESSES THINGS UP AND ITS THE THREAD THAT GETS LOCKED??!! - NOT HIS COMMENTS MODERATED OUT AND THE THREAD RESTORED ON TOPIC SIMPLY BY CUTTING HIM OUT OF THE ACTION, EVEN HIS POINT OF ENTRY IN THE THREAD IE THE PART THAT IS WRONG THAT ALL CENTERS ON HIM IS SO CLEAR CUT THAT I'M BEFFUDLED AS TO WHY EVERYONE ELSE CAN SEE THAT EXCEPT YOU?

    You are misregarding ALL THE CLUES HE'S RUBBING IN YOUR FACE his behaviour [confrontational ONLY - NO CONTRIBUTIONS, SIMPLE NEGATIVE STATEMENTS OVER AND OVER AGAINST SPECIFIC PATRONS POINTS OF VIEW, the very calculated timing he got into the "debate", against whom and what line of arguments his confrontational style is turned against ONLY, as well as his username that suggests that most likely he's an alt account..and he hasn't come forth to challenge this in indignation either which speaks volumes..]

    THE SAME HAPPENED IN THE DEADLY SINS THREAD. You noticed it yourself, 'people(??!)' were trashing absent members and their views of the game. Instead of moderating the trashers out and leave the thread - YOU LOCK THE THREAD PLAYING TO THE TROLLS INTENTIONS AND NOW YOU MANAGED TO REPEAT THAT SAME BAD CALL WITH SAID MEMBERS PRESENT AND A NEW IDENTICAL THREAD ACTIVE AND HEALTHY STARTED BY A NEW MEMBER - WELL DONE..!!

    This has nothing to do with being a people's person. Its simple logic and nothing more - keeping active healthy debate open is what should be the priority, it has always been so, and ESPECIALLY SO FROM TOSA. Please dont use Tosa and his lines as a justification for your bad call..

    If you cannot see that certain members have been playing a dirty political war in this forum and using every means at their disposal in order to do so, you are confusing the forest for the trees.

    You can hide behind your role in the forum, behind nitpicking interprentation of the rules and the other staff's backing up in order to justify a bad call that bends the whole board under pressure by the alt accounts of a sociopath, or

    you can take the oportunity to reckognise the issue, make the right call, ie moderate out the troll and re-open the thread, and let anyone know that the org is not their private field through macchinations trolling, alt accounts, thread hi-jacking as pressure against rival points of view- and whatever else backhanded means
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-10-2019 at 05:44. Reason: added material

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    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    And also: since you seem to lock every thread about iron man rules that gets derailed from the same people and their - most likely - alt accounts, if now i am a new member, say, and i want to start a NEW THREAD about iron man rules what is the message i'm getting from how the forum staff react?!

    The implicit message is loud and clear: iron man rules discussions are allowed to be derailed [BY THE SAME PEOPLE] and when [ALLOWED TO BE SUCCESFULLY] derailed they are finally closed/locked [not the derailer moved out of the thread]- so better not discuss these things, god its tiring, the same story again etc - YES THE SAME STORY AGAIN BUT FROM WHO??!! - whose ends this serves??! The forum's that thrives on appropriate discussion(of all colours) or someone's that doesn't want specific things to be discussed??!

    It amazes me that you cannot see all this drone, seriously mate

    If its a bad call, and you can see this, it doesn't have to stay this way - it actually shouldn't stay that way. Moderate the troll and re-open the thread with the right message to everyone that wants to participate, ie stay on topic folks, which is what moderating is all about.. ie Keeping healthy active debate exactly that: HEALTHY AND ACTIVE
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-10-2019 at 05:38. Reason: typos

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    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: yet more thread locking...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    I am not so sure either: the exchange may have been a sideshow to you, but to me it felt like an old grudge that threatened to dominate and possibly derail the thread, without adding anything of value. And while I didn't moderate the Main Hall "back in the day", I would have stepped in if such an exchange occurred on a forum I was moderating.
    Caravel means that the exchange is offtopic and so the exchange is to be moderated and NOT THE WHOLE THREAD CLOSED WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF THE ALTACCOUNT/TROLL IN QUESTION.

    YOU STAFF LOT ARE BEING GASLIGHTED AND THE WHOLE BOARD IS BEING BUCKLED TO A SPECIFIC POLITICAL AGENDA

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    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    STAZI mate, you are feeding a crocodile with the hope he'll eat you last as does the whole forum with VERY PREDICTABLE RESULTS.. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-10-2019 at 05:34. Reason: added material

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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    Caravel means that the exchange is offtopic and so the exchange is to be moderated and NOT THE WHOLE THREAD CLOSED WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF THE ALTACCOUNT/TROLL IN QUESTION.
    I do not believe this is what Caravel had in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    In my opinion there was no need to close the thread and there is no need to censor or hack up the thread.

    At the most, the thread could have been split.
    I happen to disagree with this viewpoint, there was no way I was going to let the thread continue on it's course without intervention. Locking the thread was likely the easy way out, but I feel like this discussion (in one form or another) would be going on regardless of which mechanism I used.
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    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    I do not believe this is what Caravel had in mind.

    I happen to disagree with this viewpoint, there was no way I was going to let the thread continue on it's course without intervention. Locking the thread was likely the easy way out, but I feel like this discussion (in one form or another) would be going on regardless of which mechanism I used.
    Apologies if that is the case regarding Caravel's comment. I'll let Caravel explain what he means.

    All i'm trying to say to you is [and you dont have to comment on it]: see the bigger picture, there's more than meets the eye here, unfortunately. Nothing personal towards you, i just think its a bad call that unknowingly (from your part) plays to the hands of a political agenda.

    The same happened, as i said to the Deadly Sins thread, just read it. The DEB8 guy does the dirty work and then comes the 'man' to lend his 'voice of authority' without getting his hands dirty all the while, to give his seal of approval to DEB8s points - they are one and the same. Even the posting style

    The DEBATE [DEB8] account appears to behave as a designed account for fanboying backup and for personality/point of view assasination and threadhijacking thereby rendering "rival threads" impossible to continue through trolling and so create a shift towards certain game issues not being discussed hence making space for 'others' to be
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-10-2019 at 09:47. Reason: typos

  17. #17

    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    I am not so sure either: the exchange may have been a sideshow to you, but to me it felt like an old grudge that threatened to dominate and possibly derail the thread, without adding anything of value.
    Crisis averted... as the thread has now been locked, there is no danger of any further derailment. All is good, we can now all get back to doing nothing at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    other staff did not have to deal with it in my absence.
    What was there to "deal with"? Who was harmed? What kind of imaginary rules are being broken?

    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    I let all kinds of off-topic banter go on in threads, but "banter" is not what was going on here.
    You said the posts were "offtopic", I've said that offtopic used to go on, within the flow of threads and was never a problem. That's all I've said.

    Whether the offtopic "discussion" in question within the thread counted as "objectionable" is a different matter.

    Only two members were really involved in that exchange, I had not reported the thread or any posts within in it and neither had the other to my knowledge - if he had that would be rather bizarre and hypocritical.

    The end result and this show, is worse that the disagreement within the thread. That's the point I'm making and what you fail to recognise.

    That mostly constructive thread is locked. In locking that thread apparently you feel you've done a good thing.

    So, trolling iron man rules threads get them locked and a helpful and willing moderator aids and abets the trolls by applying the lock...

    To replace it we now have this. Even more visible, even more stupid and pointless, presented for the "entertainment" of the entire forum, rather than just the few members involved in the niche sub forum...
    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    The DEB8 guy is clearly trolling [he's highjacked/derailed a thread on the same topic 3 times over MANY YEARS] and he's the only one doing so in that thread.
    In the quest for some kind of misguided, perverted "impartiality", the mods will of course simply blame all those involved - schoolteacher style... which is why we now have this thread in this forum as part of some idiotic formal(?) process which will achieve precisely nothing and may as well be closed. Honestly, no idea why this is here and open and the actual thread with the content in the forum where this is supposed to be is closed...

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    I happen to disagree with this viewpoint, there was no way I was going to let the thread continue on it's course without intervention. Locking the thread was likely the easy way out, but I feel like this discussion (in one form or another) would be going on regardless of which mechanism I used.
    And what a disaster that would be...

    I've seen worse in the backroom. That's how hypocritical and one sided this farce is.

    The backroom has a history of more moderator coverage, more moderator time, more bans, infractions, "exchanges", major incidents... than the rest of the site put together. Yet it was all worth it, all perfectly acceptable, permissible and allowed to continue, with minor slaps when some miscreant took things a bit too far. Now we have a minor back and forth between two or three members in a forum which has had no posts this year, apart from that thread... and the resident moderator jumps in.

    Playing right into the hands of the individual(s) who resurrected and trolled the old thread and the individual who also felt the need to weigh in and resume spewing bile into the new thread, based on one tiny comment which was perceived as a slight. The fact they were reading at all, the fact they they scanned for any kind of perceived offence says a lot...

    Why would you post in an "iron man rules" thread just to trash every idea presented [by the posters you happen to despise]?

    Shall I go to the forums about the newer games just to trash every aspect and facet of those? Better still, shall I also post in the threads relating to certain MTW mods and just trash and ridicule those mods, their implementations and the individuals involved?

    It's win, win for me... based on this, the worst scenario is that the threads will be locked...
    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    just read it.
    That's the easy part, but difficult for some it would seem. But it's not worth the effort, lumping everyone together, etc, is the more "professional" way of doing things... and calling it a "feud" is also rather telling... just lock those threads and treat ALL those deemed to be involved as idiots - impartially and equally...

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    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    Why would you post in an "iron man rules" thread just to trash every idea presented [by the posters you happen to despise]?
    ..and if you post in a thread that you apparently hate its very existence to express dogmatically that hate without ever contributing to the thread or argue anything but just crapping anything said with simple one-word confrontational statements, then what would that make you??!!

    Folks of the staff: do yourself and the forum a favor and re-open that thread and the previous one and safeguard the on-topic folks instead of gutting the thread for a single alt acount/troll hi jacking and derailing it systematically - you are presently surrendering the board to a political agenda imposed through the worst of means that the very forum rules you serve and impose were designed to protect it from..

    You are being taken for a hell of a ride by acting un-knowingly as levers of said agenda..
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-10-2019 at 11:10. Reason: typos

  19. #19
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    ok.. I was called in a few comments so I'll explain how I see about the whole thing. For me it's very simple.

    First, low traffic in this forum lately is no an excuse for lowering the standards. I admit I haven't read the forum rules but the basics are usually as follows:
    1. stay on topic
    2. don't go into personal stuff (which really derives form 1st rule)
    3. don't double post
    4. be respectful

    The discussion between caravel and DEB8 was off topic, uninformative, personal stuff, not even funny. It was interesting only for them. This is what private messages are for. Additionality, due to the double or even triple posting, the tread looks like a mess, like their personal playground. I haven't seen any reaction on the double post thing from the mods so maybe it's not forbidden in this forum but it certainly doesn't look good and IMHO it's inconvenient to read. Especially now, when there is so little traffic here, we should keep our forum clean, tidy and informative as much as we can.

    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    STAZI mate, you are feeding a crocodile with the hope he'll eat you last as does the whole forum with VERY PREDICTABLE RESULTS.. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT
    I don't feel like I'm feeding anyone. I merely expressed my point of view which accidentally is close to the drone's. As you probably noticed I don't agree with him on closing the thread entirely (which was nice to read until certain moment). I only mentioned that I can understand the reasons why he did it. If warnings are ineffective (as drone said) I'd consider a short ban (24h or so), just to show the rules should be taken seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    I haven't taken any "bait" as such, I've only responded to comments directed towards me, while posting legitimate content and trying to keep the thread on topic...
    After reading some of your comments (obviously not all) during those years I pictured you as sane, reasonable person who knows when to stop. That's why I thought it was just a bad day you were dragged/baited into that pointless discussion.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  20. #20
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    If you cannot see that certain members have been playing a dirty political war in this forum and using every means at their disposal in order to do so, you are confusing the forest for the trees.
    It's certainly possible that the staff is missing something here. We are only human.

    But hyperbolic rants only serve to antagonize people. The matter isn't quite as black-and-white as you make it out to be.

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  21. #21
    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    It's certainly possible that the staff is missing something here. We are only human.

    But hyperbolic rants only serve to antagonize people. The matter isn't quite as black-and-white as you make it out to be.
    "Hyperbolic rants" ?! and "you 'missed' 'something' " ?!

    Since you appear [from the way you speak] to know exactly how the matter is - and i dont remember you in the MTW section in ages when all this was forming or playing out, to be so smugly dismissive of someone who was - which is a testament to your own glaring incompetence and blindness as to what is happening right now, i'll leave you to it..

    The fact is that you [staff] managed to close two identical legitimate, well behaved threads on EXACTLY the same subject when THE VERY SAME troll hi-jacked them in the SAME WAY instead of getting HIM out.. and now, through your smugly patronising response I, who made contributions to that thread and generated discussion for everyone to enjoy and participate, am here apologising and NOT HIM who just trolled my thread happily all the way to the watchtower and your infuriating. impolite, inapropriate, misinformed and disinformed - pretend to play buddha when someone else is getting the stick - answer..

    No point bothering with you lot anymore - you really deserve what you get, and it seems you enjoy it too.. someone is laughing his a** off right now with the sheer stupidity you've just exhibited and he's right for doing so..

    So since you're so clever and mine aren't good and get closed by you staff lot WITHOUT ANY APPARENT REASON AND WITHOUT BREAKING ANY RULES AND I AM HERE HAVING TO "HYPERBOLICALLY RANT" TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THE FACT WHILE YOU TREAT ME LIKE S**T, i'll leave YOU generate threads and discussion in the mtw forum, go ahead..

    HAVE YOUR WAY NOW DISMISSING AGAIN THE WHOLE THING - AND WHY NOT EVEN MORE SMUGLY THAN BEFORE? - BUT MIND YOU: NOT HYPERBOLICALLY SO - that would serve NO GOOD PURPOSE
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-11-2019 at 01:38. Reason: lol

  22. #22
    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    So since you're so clever and mine aren't good and get closed by you staff lot WITHOUT ANY APPARENT REASON AND WITHOUT BREAKING ANY RULES AND I AM HERE HAVING TO "HYPERBOLICALLY RANT" TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THE FACT WHILE YOU TREAT ME LIKE S**T, i'll leave YOU generate threads and discussion in the mtw forum, go ahead..
    Ludens, just to let you know something from personal experience matey, in case you ever take my advice above and try: dont start any threads on iron man rules in the MAIN HALL or the MTW section in general, and in particular how to level the game between the player and the AI, because they get hi-jacked by the same alt acount of another patron that can troll to his heart's content under it as he pathologically hates them and anyone who supports them or discusses them, and he will get his way because the staff will dimwittedly only close the thread you started - basically any thread you or others started over a period of YEARS in the topic that he trolled consistenly - instead of getting the troll out of the way for normal discussion in the thread to resume for those interested [ie EVERYONE ELSE EXCEPT THE TROLL]


    AND if you complain through the official channel in the open, the staff will half munchingly admit that it is so, BUT WILL NOT REOPEN THE THREAD VINDICATING THE TROLL AND HIS WAYS WHILE LUMPING YOU AND HIM TOGETHER IN THE SAME POT WITH THEIR PUBLIC STATEMENTS

    So better not bother at all regarding such topics, avoid them altogether - they are basically taboo under unwritten forum law, which can be bent to the malicious will of anyone sly enough to try and manipulate it by exploiting the inabiliy of the staff to deal with his tactics - they basically seem the kind of people that cut heads off when they have a headache, which cosidering the contents of certain heads, might NOT BE SUCH A BAD IDEA AFTER ALL
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-11-2019 at 08:01. Reason: lol

  23. #23
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    HAVE YOUR WAY NOW DISMISSING AGAIN THE WHOLE THING - AND WHY NOT EVEN MORE SMUGLY THAN BEFORE? - BUT MIND YOU: NOT HYPERBOLICALLY SO - that would serve NO GOOD PURPOSE
    If you are concerned about smug dismissiveness, why did you write stuff like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by gallum View Post
    STAZI mate, you are feeding a crocodile with the hope he'll eat you last as does the whole forum with VERY PREDICTABLE RESULTS.. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT
    The staff is trying to do the right thing. I am sorry a worthwhile thread got closed, but we are volunteers with limited time and interest in sorting out old feuds. Like I wrote: we are only human. We make mistakes.

    So, again, can we talk about this without hyperbolic attacks?

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  24. #24
    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    If you are concerned about smug dismissiveness, why did you write stuff like this?
    As it came to a response to you making the first step in that ground, perhaps you'd care to explain why you went there in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    The staff is trying to do the right thing. I am sorry a worthwhile thread got closed, but we are volunteers with limited time and interest in sorting out old feuds. Like I wrote: we are only human. We make mistakes.
    No problem there, i've already pm'd drone when the whole thing started to tell him that there's nothing personal and he replied back in kind. That is still my sentiment, its nothing personal, just please re-open the thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    So, again, can we talk about this without hyperbolic attacks?
    We've talked enough mate, if you've just admited that this was a mistaken call as i understood, please re-open the thread, nothing else to talk about.

    I'm not the one bending or breaking the rules - ever - just ask drone or anyone else in the forum except the ajalon person and his alt accounts.

    Please leave the characterisations out of it, and re-open the thread - as well as the previous one please
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-11-2019 at 08:59. Reason: typos

  25. #25

    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    Now that the staff have ceased to respond to me and considering that the staff don't have the time, by their own admission, I would again like to ask once more - what is the point of this thread being moved here?

    Can we just reopen the thread in the main hall, get rid of the troll post and resume?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    But hyperbolic rants only serve to antagonize people. The matter isn't quite as black-and-white as you make it out to be.
    Lots of things antagonise people. I expect some find others discussing iron man rules antagonising - threatening even...

    I for one don't feel antagonised by much here. I've seen a lot worse... so for me this is perhaps nothing that special, but for some this is some kind of enormous forum shit-storm...? I don't know.

    What does particularly annoy me (antagonises if you will) is this continued patronising bullshit approach and faux politeness from staff. The "feud" term annoys me just a little as well. I feel that you've deliberately used that term as a means of dismissively lumping both sides in this argument together...

    As we seem to be set on stating the obvious - the staff are not the forum, some of us put in countless hours here, contributed to some epic threads and opened new avenues in discussing the game. We "kept the lights on". In just locking that thread and then so condescendingly treating us as "one single problem", you've shown some considerable contempt and arrogance - and also just how disaffected and disinterested you are, how irrelevant and unimportant you feel that subsection of the forum to be...

    Anyway you'll be glad to know that the strategy is working, I for one am closer to just throwing the towel in, simply because there doesn't seem to be much point continuing (the one thread was locked after all). Somewhat disappointing, as I had wanted to remain here "on and off" indefinitely.

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  26. #26
    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    At the end of the Deadly Sins Thread, where the DEB8[=DEBATE] guy does all the dirty work, before 'da man' comes to offer the seal of approval of his points, drone picked up what was happening, at least in the surface, and commented trying to basically say to those trashing me [as i was absent] and the thread, to leave it alone:

    Using a 8 year old necro'd thread to take cheap shots at members that no longer visit the boards could be considered poor form, so please don't.
    he got THIS REPLY from Ajalon in person:

    I think that is stretching things pretty thin here (at least in my case)... I'm hardly using this thread for anything. I was merely recalling things related to what happened here back in the day and that I have another very different view and take of it these days. Anyhow that edit was lame Drone, really lame... All I said, was that one guy was/is ridiculous and that some other members are too - they all are, as far as I am concerned. I think that is pretty damn harmless, I have been called much worse things both here and elsewhere (many times by these very guys, no less) and I didn't even mention any names here, and if I had, it would still be pretty harmless all the same. Again, I have had to put up with worse shit both said or suggested, and little was done about it on these boards - even on your watch. Poor and weak call, I think...
    Your staff member is being told what to do/told off with the air of a judge to a culprit somewhere in IS territory, simply for stating the obvious..

    Who is antagonistic of whom??! This is pathological hatred and you end up closing up new threads on the same topics by new members [not myself as reprisal] that his alt accounts continue to troll, hi-jack and finally get locked AGAIN

    The same continued in the newer thread we are now debating, only the Ajalon guy didn't want to come out in the new thread as this would make it all too visible.. the DEB8 guy is nowhere to be seen here - appears out of the blue only for trolling as soon as a topic on iron man rules linked to that thread comes forth..

    wake up folks..
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-12-2019 at 14:51. Reason: added material

  27. #27
    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    The action is HERE: pages 2, 3 and 4 - watch the DEBATE guy and the Ajalon guy in co-ordinated action:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...TW-DEADLY-SINS

    PS Pages 2, 3 and 4 happened during 2017, when i was long gone.. hence not here to defend it, so it was a sitting duck for discrediting/hijacking by volume of dismissive/troll posting.. the timing the trashing happened again speaks volumes..
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-11-2019 at 11:07. Reason: added material

  28. #28
    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    There are many other members that dont find my points appealing or too appealing - but none of them bothers with them or me as those that take their dislike of my points or me personally.

    The difference is huge: with the first category there is a momentary disagreement and each goes his way.. with the second, we end up right here, many years later which is really sad
    Last edited by Goalum; 01-11-2019 at 11:22. Reason: added material

  29. #29

    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    On the subject of alts...

    I've known about a certain member being an alt account of a certain other member for quite a number of years...

    I've never felt it was worth mentioning, or highlighting - it's better to let these obviously disturbed types continue their little games - thinking they leave absolutely no clues, no trail, no signs... little do they know... but given enough rope, etc.

    If you look at the posting history from some years ago when these members joined, you can see it as it plays out. All utterly ridiculous and so very obvious even without the aforementioned (clues, signs and trail...)

    If you let on... if you, allude to the trail, the signs, the evidence, they will up their game - but they were not playing a very convincing game to start with.

    For me, it's better to just let them continue playing, continuing to delude themselves that people have been taken in by it... and just have a little laugh at their expense...

    I certainly wasn't, but it seems that, in that particular case, the staff certainly were...
    Last edited by caravel; 01-11-2019 at 12:43.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: regarding the cliffton thread that got locked

    watch the DEBATE guy and the Ajalon guy
    So Axalon and DEB8 are one and the same? If so, that sheds a different light on a debate/discussion I had with "those two" in the Shogun Forum awhile back about the value of muskets

    On topic, I find these duplicitous comments interesting:

    Folks, play 'ol MTW as you please, and above all feel free to post about that as you like on these boards. Don't bother with or conform to these notions of supposed "sins"- its little else then some arbitrary and snobbish drivel. In short, its BS. Besides, if you want to be really cheesy as you play this game at home - then that is still your headache and problem, not mine (or any others)
    Ah. The reason behind the "rant"... Not everyone has either the intelligence, time or inclination to either make a mod from scratch or to adjust a vanilla game to enable playing one
    In other words, those without sufficient intelligence can continue to make up "arbitrary and snobbish drivel" to make the game more enjoyable, OR....develop/enable a mod. Those comments are certainly a good way to "spark some screwed up drama".




    So, again, can we talk about this without hyperbolic attacks?
    Simply locking a thread because you don't wish to deal with the "drama" is the easy out, IMHO. OTOH, you can't simply ignore the barking dog (which I feel that some of you other guys should do) because you're staff. I realize you have a real life, and time spent here is limited. Perhaps that's the real reason behind the decline here. The passion for the games is gone, and so goes the commitment. That's not meant as a criticism, just an observation.
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 01-12-2019 at 08:41.
    High Plains Drifter

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