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Thread: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47941794

    The current state of Notre Dame makes it a possibility that the structure of the Cathedral may collapse, although the BBC are currently downplaying this.

    God have Mercy

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    I am currently watching this on TV and I'm in disbelief - initially there was this contained fire in the south then it slowly took over the entire cathedral. The north tower is in danger right now.
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...-the-cathedral

    This explains some of the underlying issues with the structure, parts of the Cathedral were being held up by wood and metal paces which may now burn or otherwise fail.
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Even if it doesn't collapse, buttressing the remaining shell will take months if not years... the horrible decision of going quickly but less carefully or slow and methodically and hoping that time and even rain doesn't cause a collapse.

    Trump can't even keep quiet on this disaster either...

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    The BBC is reporting that the main structure is now safe, but Im still rather upset about this. I was so looking forward to seeing it when I visited next month.
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Apparently either some or most of the artwork was saved?

    Hopefully they can meticulously reconstruct what was lost and eventually the 2019 cathedral will seem just as monumentally present as the 1831 cathedral seems to us.

    Also:

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Apparently most of the artwork is safe - relics are preserved.
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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country.

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Well shall have to see, but the latest images show that some of the vaulting in the nave has collapsed. Like most medieval Cathedrals Notre Dame's wooden roof rested on stone vaulting, the actual ceiling of the cathedral. The vaulting exerts an outwards pressure which is countered by the inward pressure of the flying buttresses. Once the structure is weakened by fire the vaulting can collapse, which means there's no counterpoint to the flying buttresses, leading to a risk of an inward collapse of the entire nave.

    This sort of things can, of course, be countered by bracing etc. or (in an emergency) possibly undermining buttresses (although this could also cause the whole structure to twist and collapse. One possible bright spot here is that Notre Dame was already undergoing huge renovations which means there should be a Cathedral architect on-site with a thorough understanding of the structure and geometry of the cathedral.

    The whole structure will take days to fully cool and settle, so it could be a while before we know the true extent of the damage. Between then and now there's nothing to do but hope and pray.
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    On the plus side, the cathedral will probably get millions in renovation funding from around the world and the government. So it will be rebuilt in its magnificent glory.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    A new one is better than a refurbished one anyway. They can also introduce advanced materials such as fiberglass, carbon fiber and recycled ocean plastic with solar panels and windmills on top.

    I mean, I'm glad no humans go hurt. Shame for the building, but it could have been worse.


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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Sad but it will be rebuilt, just as it has before.
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    On the plus side, the cathedral will probably get millions in renovation funding from around the world and the government. So it will be rebuilt in its magnificent glory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    A new one is better than a refurbished one anyway. They can also introduce advanced materials such as fiberglass, carbon fiber and recycled ocean plastic with solar panels and windmills on top.

    I mean, I'm glad no humans go hurt. Shame for the building, but it could have been worse.
    I made this point of facebook -

    "Your cat died, but now you can get a new one that isn't blind in one eye."

    Classy.
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Fortunately, nobody appears to have been seriously harmed in the process.

    News reports that hundreds of millions of Euros have been pledged for the reconstruction. I am sure that the reconstruction will be controversial -- such things always are.

    The snarky in me wonders if the laïcité purists will insist it be rebuilt as a Temple of Reason again...
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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Seems the interior was mostly protected by the vaulted ceiling, only one section collapsed and was due to the spire falling on it, who knows at this point how much damage the heat did to the stonework.
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    I made this point of facebook -

    "Your cat died, but now you can get a new one that isn't blind in one eye."

    Classy.
    Then we remember the facts:
    - the "cat" is not dead.
    - the "cat" was severely in need of renovation and lacking material (money) support.
    - the "cat" is now going to be repaired and rebuilt better than ever with excessive material support.
    - the posts about the "cat" you were responding too was about this silver lining despite the tragedy which would ensure what is left can be enjoyed for future generations due to this outreach of support which was previously lacking.
    Last edited by Beskar; 04-16-2019 at 23:31.
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Then we remember the facts:
    - the "cat" is not dead.
    - the "cat" was severely in need of renovation and lacking material (money) support.
    - the "cat" is now going to be repaired and rebuilt better than ever with excessive material support.
    - the posts about the "cat" you were responding too was about this silver lining despite the tragedy which would ensure what is left can be enjoyed for future generations due to this outreach of support which was previously lacking.
    https://twitter.com/_theek_/status/1117895531563372544

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Vitiate Man.

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  18. #18
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    I made this point of facebook -

    "Your cat died, but now you can get a new one that isn't blind in one eye."

    Classy.
    Oh come on, you want to see windmills made of ocean plastic on it, too!
    Plus, unlike a cat, a building doesn't have a soul. It's terrible for the objectophiles of course.


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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Then we remember the facts:
    - the "cat" is not dead.
    - the "cat" was severely in need of renovation and lacking material (money) support.
    - the "cat" is now going to be repaired and rebuilt better than ever with excessive material support.
    - the posts about the "cat" you were responding too was about this silver lining despite the tragedy which would ensure what is left can be enjoyed for future generations due to this outreach of support which was previously lacking.
    None of which will be of any comfort to the congregation on Maundy Thursday, who now do not have a Cathedral to worship in.

    Sometimes, Beskar, the person with a closer emotional connection just has the more appropriate emotional response. Obviously, you aren't having an emotional response, so would you kindly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Oh come on, you want to see windmills made of ocean plastic on it, too!
    Plus, unlike a cat, a building doesn't have a soul. It's terrible for the objectophiles of course.
    Oh, Cathedrals definitely have souls.

    Also, I had a thing with a visiting Dutch academic last year - she was able to help me better understand the German sense of humour, so now I can at least tell when you're trying to be funny.
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  20. #20
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ris-cathedral/

    Macron thinks he can do it in five years.

    The French aristocracy have already pledged 1 Billion Euros.

    France is a strange place, theoretically a Republic yet at times like this it feels more like the Ancien Regime.
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  21. #21
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Sometimes, Beskar, the person with a closer emotional connection just has the more appropriate emotional response. Obviously, you aren't having an emotional response, so would you kindly?
    Yes, instead of "Wow, there has been a big amount in donations which will help rebuild/repair the cathedral" I will now use trigger warnings about a dead cat and reply only with "thoughts and prayers" instead.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    None of which will be of any comfort to the congregation on Maundy Thursday, who now do not have a Cathedral to worship in.

    Sometimes, Beskar, the person with a closer emotional connection just has the more appropriate emotional response. Obviously, you aren't having an emotional response, so would you kindly?
    https://www.facebook.com/qaddafigong...type=3&theater


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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Terrible people are terrible?

    No other tragic event makes this less tragic?

    Sorry, I'm going to need more than just a troll link.
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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Communist gonna communist.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Terrible people are terrible?

    No other tragic event makes this less tragic?

    Sorry, I'm going to need more than just a troll link.
    Well, you claimed that the more emotional response may be more appropriate, but who is to judge that?
    It's nothing but an opinion.

    I do wonder though, why people sometimes have a more emotional connection to things than to other people.
    Maybe I'd cry if my house burnt down, but not having a Sunday service at the usual place, I don't know. Is it about the worship or the nice windows?


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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Well, you claimed that the more emotional response may be more appropriate, but who is to judge that?
    It's nothing but an opinion.

    I do wonder though, why people sometimes have a more emotional connection to things than to other people.
    Maybe I'd cry if my house burnt down, but not having a Sunday service at the usual place, I don't know. Is it about the worship or the nice windows?
    Actually, I said "closer emotional connection".

    The guys on that facebook page are basically the Left-Wing equivalent of Incels.
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  27. #27
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Actually, I said "closer emotional connection".

    The guys on that facebook page are basically the Left-Wing equivalent of Incels.
    So your response is not more emotional then? I wonder why you get so upset then.

    I don't know that Facebook page and didn't bother to check it out, you seem to know it better than I do.

    edit: UbiSoft are also giving away AC:Unity on UPlay because of this. In addition to donating 500,000€:
    https://register.ubisoft.com/acu-not...giveaway/en-GB

    Someone mentioned though, that, in France, people and corporations can get up to a 60% tax return for such donations, so a lot of these huge donations from French billionaires and corporations may largely be paid for by the public in the end.
    Last edited by Husar; Yesterday at 15:22.


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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Let's be honest here - a donation like this, while being of a very kind gesture and clearly from companies like LVMH and Kering it's actually very useful because they actually have very skilled artisans, is a very good tax write off.
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Someone mentioned though, that, in France, people and corporations can get up to a 60% tax return for such donations, so a lot of these huge donations from French billionaires and corporations may largely be paid for by the public in the end.
    I don't know how the cathedral was paid for when it was built in the first place, but I imagine it was paid for by royalty, nobility and the Catholic Church, all of which got their money by taxing commoners. Plus ça change.
    In those simple times there was a great wonder and mystery in life. Man walked in fear and solemnity, with Heaven very close above his head, and Hell below his very feet. God's visible hand was everywhere, in the rainbow and the comet, in the thunder and the wind. The Devil too raged openly upon the earth; he skulked behind the hedge-rows in the gloaming; he laughed loudly in the night-time; he clawed the dying sinner, pounced on the unbaptized babe, and twisted the limbs of the epileptic. A foul fiend slunk ever by a man's side and whispered villainies in his ear, while above him there hovered an angel of grace . . .

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  30. #30
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notre Dame de Paris in flame

    60% being subtracted from the tax income is better than the 100 that would need to be taken if they didnt.

    Hopefully the murmerings about the government planning on replacing the spire with some symbolic modern art eysore is just the rumor mill.
    Last edited by Greyblades; Today at 02:03.
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