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Thread: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

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    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    I have noticed several articles and posts floating around following the theme of "it's just a building", or "there are starving children", or "the rich should give more often".

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverw.../#67e668007f60

    I understand the sentiments, but I have a difficult time understanding why people are so quick to dispose of history. Notre Dame is just one example, but there are other monuments and buildings that are meaningful, and often symbolic of a people or nations. I am not the type of person to ignore dark parts of history or whitewash bad behavior, but I still appreciate things for what they are. Yes, hundreds of millions of dollars can be used to feed people and yes it is frustrating that entities that have more money than many nations can be found to be quicker to fund reconstruction of a building than alleviating poverty. One user's post on my FB feed stated that Jesus did not care about buildings, but about people. However, could you ask a people to give away a symbol of their nation that has stood for nearly 1000 years in active service?

    This isn't a ruin of a forgotten civilization; this building has been looked after and taken care of for longer than anyone could possibly remember. It is possible that it will be there and cared when the current world evolves into the next. Even if the civilization went extinct instead of evolving, such as the case of Sumer or Akkad, the things they built are a look into another world, another form of thinking, even if they are just rocks with flecks of ancient paint and lumps of baked clay with an undecipherable script. Frankly, it is unlikely that we will ever see such things again, barring a profound change on Earth.

    In short: Is it immoral to spend money rebuilding Notre Dame, when the money could be spent on other humanitarian projects?

    I say no, but that more should be done in terms of the latter.
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    There is a great many heritage sites that have lost their splendour, many having to charge large to maintain their beauty due to inadequate donations or state funding (due to priorities). You are right there has been a decay in funding to preserve our history, which takes away from our culture and it's ability to inspire future generations. Unfortunately there are many issues such as poverty where more is needed than simply throwing money at the problem in order to correct it too and national governments generally fund these better than heritage sites (with exceptions), so there needs to be a source of good will to make up the short fall, even if some of those donations might be used to claim returns on tax.

    However, there was an unusual reaction from some which stated that donating to help rebuild/restore Notre Dame is like telling the owner of a dead cat to just buy another one.
    Last edited by Beskar; 04-18-2019 at 19:52.
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    Because some like to act as gatekeepers or rationers of grief.

    Of course then money is not the same thing as grief and sorrow ("thoughts and prayers"), and one could, in opposition to preservationists, entertain the ideological premise of Pol Pot that the vestiges of the Old World must be eradicated, but the bottom line is yes, we need bread, but we must have roses too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ris-cathedral/

    Macron thinks he can do it in five years.

    The French aristocracy have already pledged 1 Billion Euros.

    France is a strange place, theoretically a Republic yet at times like this it feels more like the Ancien Regime.
    Not only France.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    What cause is greater than others?

    Climate.

    Climate change because if we don't fix that... we're out.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    Well, that I don't cry when it burns, doesn't mean I think it's immoral to rebuild it.

    The people who really care about the building are probably the ones who already paid for its restauration before the fire and the media attention.


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  6. #6

    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    What cause is greater than others?

    Climate.

    Climate change because if we don't fix that... we're out.
    Correct. In fact, many historical sites and artifacts are going to be lost to climate change on an ongoing basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Well, that I don't cry when it burns, doesn't mean I think it's immoral to rebuild it.

    The people who really care about the building are probably the ones who already paid for its restauration before the fire and the media attention.
    You don't get it because the Allies blew up all of Germany's historical architecture before you were born.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    You don't get it because the Allies blew up all of Germany's historical architecture before you were born.
    I walked past the Cologne cathedral twice on Wednesday evening...
    I'd be sad if it burnt, just like it's sad that Notre Dame burnt, but tears...maybe I'm too much machine with too few emotions?


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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    Human altruism can't be relied on for disasters all over the world because there are simply too many of us for our mind to adequately comprehend. We weren't meant to be connected to everyone all the time. It shouldn't surprise people that a French billionaire would want to rebuild a French cultural landmark.

    Thankfully, God invented taxation and administrative law to limit the human element.
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    There are probably a couple of hundred people in the world who I would miss on a personal level (probably a lot less). I think that this is true for most people. Everyone else is just a massive sea of forgettable, replaceable beings: do I care if a machine or a person made my clothes or my car? Do I care what happened to the people involved? Frankly, no.

    Equally there are thousands of churches, most of which I really have no interest in. But there are some landmarks that are unique.

    Most of the time people choose not to view how worthless they view others. As Tim Minchin says so well in his song "F*ck the poor". Yes, a small amount of money to alleviate guilt but frankly that's about it.



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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    I would be sad if you died.
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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    I would be sad if you died.
    Would he die if you were sad?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  12. #12
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What cause is greater than others, and does this negate them?

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    There are probably a couple of hundred people in the world who I would miss on a personal level (probably a lot less). I think that this is true for most people. Everyone else is just a massive sea of forgettable, replaceable beings: do I care if a machine or a person made my clothes or my car? Do I care what happened to the people involved? Frankly, no.
    On a personal level, yes. I would say that I am capabble of empathising and rationalizing beyond a personal level though.
    I would prefer if my stuff were made by a machine.


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