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Thread: Gerrymandering

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    Default Gerrymandering

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    Last edited by Montmorency; 07-04-2019 at 19:17.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gerrymandering

    And it's going to get a whole lot worse.... my prediciton is that there will be a permanently entrenched ruling minority in the USA on the heels of this:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/u...mandering.html
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    And it's going to get a whole lot worse.... my prediciton is that there will be a permanently entrenched ruling minority in the USA on the heels of this:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/u...mandering.html
    Hmmm - I think the Supreme Court is probably correct here. Whilst the state Legislatures should act in the interests of the State and States in this matter I don't think the courts should be able to decide how elections are managed. If you want impartiality it needs to be written into the Constitution.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Hmmm - I think the Supreme Court is probably correct here. Whilst the state Legislatures should act in the interests of the State and States in this matter I don't think the courts should be able to decide how elections are managed. If you want impartiality it needs to be written into the Constitution.
    You seem to be making a technical argument, and from a technical standpoint, you are correct. However, it condemns my country's experiments in Democracy to a rapid demise. Once Montmercy's chart slides to the 34 state legislature tally point, all hell is going to break loose as the GOP enshrines itself as a one-party permanent ruler... either directly or indirectly. They will modify the constitution to ensure every election aftewards is decided in their favor. Just look at what Mitch McConnel has been able to accomplish over the past 9 years without that power.

    America's lurch into a false-Christian autrocratic theocracy will greatly accelerate on the heels of this.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  5. #5
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    You seem to be making a technical argument, and from a technical standpoint, you are correct. However, it condemns my country's experiments in Democracy to a rapid demise. Once Montmercy's chart slides to the 34 state legislature tally point, all hell is going to break loose as the GOP enshrines itself as a one-party permanent ruler... either directly or indirectly. They will modify the constitution to ensure every election aftewards is decided in their favor. Just look at what Mitch McConnel has been able to accomplish over the past 9 years without that power.

    America's lurch into a false-Christian autrocratic theocracy will greatly accelerate on the heels of this.
    Technical arguments are important. It can be argued that the tendency of the Supreme Court to "over-interpret" the Constitution in the past is what has led you to this point.

    The judiciary need to be a-political or the average American cannot be expected to have any faith in them. If you're expecting your Supreme Court to wilfully misinterpret your Constitution to protect you from your democratically elected legislature then, well, things have already gone far to far, haven't they?
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gerrymandering

    It seems to be that the "right" in all its multitude of forms is prepared to work together (how the Christian Right deal with working with Trump defeats me) to defeat the "left" which is much more focused on absolute principles than being in power.

    So, it seems that although the majority might be against Trump and what he stands for their unwillingness to work together is going to be a problem - AOC and her band of 4 will fight the rest of the Democrats rather than as they view it compromise.

    The "right" are happily stuffing the judiciary, moving boundaries and optimising voter disenfranchisement whilst it seems the Democrats are sticking to their principles. The only thing that might work against this is the demographic shift.

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  7. #7
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    It seems to be that the "right" in all its multitude of forms is prepared to work together (how the Christian Right deal with working with Trump defeats me) to defeat the "left" which is much more focused on absolute principles than being in power.

    So, it seems that although the majority might be against Trump and what he stands for their unwillingness to work together is going to be a problem - AOC and her band of 4 will fight the rest of the Democrats rather than as they view it compromise.

    The "right" are happily stuffing the judiciary, moving boundaries and optimising voter disenfranchisement whilst it seems the Democrats are sticking to their principles. The only thing that might work against this is the demographic shift.

    That's a good start boss, but you're missing the end goal. The entire point of gerrymandering (and voter disenfranchisement, as practiced so audaciously by Brian Kemp here in Georgia in 2018), is to counteract the effects of demographics. The whole point is that the 35% remain immune to the effects of the majority, staying in power regardless of the odds against them.

    The rallying cry on the Trump-right right now betrays their thinking on this "The United States never was, and was never intended to be, a Democracy". Implied in that is that government by and for the 35% who support Trump is ordained in our Constitution.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  8. #8

    Default Re: Gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Hmmm - I think the Supreme Court is probably correct here. Whilst the state Legislatures should act in the interests of the State and States in this matter I don't think the courts should be able to decide how elections are managed. If you want impartiality it needs to be written into the Constitution.
    What is your Constitutional argument for believing that attempts to disenfranchise populations and undermine the integrity of the vote are non-justiciable at the federal level? Which was basically Chief Roberts' core holding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Technical arguments are important. It can be argued that the tendency of the Supreme Court to "over-interpret" the Constitution in the past is what has led you to this point.

    The judiciary need to be a-political or the average American cannot be expected to have any faith in them. If you're expecting your Supreme Court to wilfully misinterpret your Constitution to protect you from your democratically elected legislature then, well, things have already gone far to far, haven't they?
    *sigh*

    It's the other way around, and that horse is a wild animal, what were you thinking trying to mount it. The courts are routinely partisan in willfully misinterpreting the Constitution* to suit their ideological precepts - typically toward the Right - and it's as well-established as apple pie in America.

    *More commonly just legislation I believe, because the Supreme Court is the final appeals court, not merely a constitutional court.

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    It seems to be that the "right" in all its multitude of forms is prepared to work together (how the Christian Right deal with working with Trump defeats me) to defeat the "left" which is much more focused on absolute principles than being in power.

    So, it seems that although the majority might be against Trump and what he stands for their unwillingness to work together is going to be a problem - AOC and her band of 4 will fight the rest of the Democrats rather than as they view it compromise.

    The "right" are happily stuffing the judiciary, moving boundaries and optimising voter disenfranchisement whilst it seems the Democrats are sticking to their principles. The only thing that might work against this is the demographic shift.

    You're attributing blame to the wrong place - the Democratic Party is experiencing a revolt by its most conservative dozen or two dozen Reps - and the wrong concept - compromise is not the deficit, deliberate Reagan-over-the-shoulder assimilationism toward Republican priorities is. The left wing of the Dem party is exactly the one increasingly-vocally expressing the need for procedural radicalism in countering Republican illegitimacy.
    Last edited by Montmorency; Yesterday at 18:38.
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