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Thread: Total War Saga: Troy?

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    REX POLONIAE Moderator KLAssurbanipal's Avatar
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    Default Total War Saga: Troy?

    https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/08...be-set-in-troy

    "The next Total War Saga game seems to be set in the ancient city of Troy, possibly during the infamous Trojan War, according to a new trademark filing made by developer Creative Assembly.

    First reported by Eurogamer, Reddit user r/zhxws managed to discover the trademark filing for “Total War Saga: Troy” by Creative Assembly on the United Kingdom’s government’s Intellectual Property Office site, which appears to have been filed on July 23 of this year.

    Whether the city of Troy, and subsequently the Trojan War, were real is still hotly debated by archaeologists and historians, according to LiveScience.com. There’s a real city on the northwest coast of Turkey that’s known as Troy, and the common belief is that this is the city the legends refer to.

    In popular myth, the city of Troy was besieged for 10 years before falling to the forces of King Agamemnon, who led the Greek army. According to Homer’s “The Iliad,” the reason for this excruciatingly long war was because of Queen Helen’s abduction at the hands of Paris, the son of Troy’s king. In the Iliad, the gods routinely intervened in favor of one side or another. The Trojan War is thought to have taken place around 1,200 B.C., so near the end of the bronze age.

    This could all of course mean we'll get heroes such as Achilles (and his weak heel), Hector, Paris, King Agamemnon, and one giant wooden, horse-shaped siege tower.

    SEGA and Creative Assembly have yet to formally announce the game, and it’s anyone’s guess if they’ll announce something at this month’s Gamescom in Germany, considering the trademark has only recently been filed."

  2. #2

    Default Re: Total War Saga: Troy?

    From my perspective, while I do appreciate that they're bringing out new content, Troy TW will not really be something very historical due to the lack of credible sources around the whole event. It will be interesting to see a mini-pre-Rome 2 TW shaped out.

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: Troy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xantan View Post
    From my perspective, while I do appreciate that they're bringing out new content, Troy TW will not really be something very historical due to the lack of credible sources around the whole event. It will be interesting to see a mini-pre-Rome 2 TW shaped out.
    Oh I don't know - we actually know quite a lot about the period, just not a lot about the war itself.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: Troy?

    But we do know enough to have a good historical overview of the military aspects?
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: Troy?

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    But we do know enough to have a good historical overview of the military aspects?
    To a point? We can reconstruct the cities fairly well now, including Troy, and we have a fair idea of the sorts of ships they used. The major issue, if anything, would be the lack of variety of units.

    A dirty secret we don't like to talk about much is that we don't really know a lot about ancient warfare from the later Archaic and Classical periods. We know nothing of swordplay except what we see on a few sculptures and what we can infer from the weapons. We're not even sure hoe Greek hoplites held their spears.
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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: Troy?

    Ah the great underhand vs overhand spear debate.
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: Troy?

    Quote Originally Posted by lars573 View Post
    Ah the great underhand vs overhand spear debate.
    Yes, that one.

    Given that a lot of the depictions were Athenian and the Athenians had a citizen-army the potters probably would have seen practicing it seem incredible that they would consistently misrepresent the use of the primary hoplite weapon.

    On the other hand, there's very little you can do with an overhand spear except stab downwards.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: Troy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Yes, that one.

    Given that a lot of the depictions were Athenian and the Athenians had a citizen-army the potters probably would have seen practicing it seem incredible that they would consistently misrepresent the use of the primary hoplite weapon.

    On the other hand, there's very little you can do with an overhand spear except stab downwards.
    Throw it?

    There are a lot of possible reasons why pictures could be unlike reality.
    Artistic freedom - I do not want to depict it like that because my work of art should look like this.
    Potters with limited talent who outsourced the painting to others who did not observe the militia training firsthand.
    Untalented painters - Sure, a spear looks like that when used, but I can only draw it like that, else noone would recognize that it is a spear.
    Religious taboos: Oh no, you can’t depict a spear that way, the youth might misuse the amphores decorations as templates for nether actions.
    Heroic posture: The real use of a spear hardly looks inspiring, but depicted THAT way the fighter looks like a heros.
    A for us hidden code that would have been obvious to the ancient observer: e.g. like in western movies the good guys alway wore white and the bad guys black cowboy hats. Perhaps the underhanded spear user was the evil guy and the good guy had to be depicted using it overhand? Or you could see from the position of the spear who the winner of the battle was - everyone knew that the winning fighter had to be depicted using the spear overhand...

    After all even the much later tapestry of Bayeux is suspected not to show real life in every dirty realistic detail but an artistic expression of the events.
    Last edited by ConjurerDragon; 09-14-2019 at 09:34.

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: Troy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ConjurerDragon View Post
    Throw it?

    There are a lot of possible reasons why pictures could be unlike reality.
    Artistic freedom - I do not want to depict it like that because my work of art should look like this.
    Potters with limited talent who outsourced the painting to others who did not observe the militia training firsthand.
    Untalented painters - Sure, a spear looks like that when used, but I can only draw it like that, else noone would recognize that it is a spear.
    Religious taboos: Oh no, you can’t depict a spear that way, the youth might misuse the amphores decorations as templates for nether actions.
    Heroic posture: The real use of a spear hardly looks inspiring, but depicted THAT way the fighter looks like a heros.
    A for us hidden code that would have been obvious to the ancient observer: e.g. like in western movies the good guys alway wore white and the bad guys black cowboy hats. Perhaps the underhanded spear user was the evil guy and the good guy had to be depicted using it overhand? Or you could see from the position of the spear who the winner of the battle was - everyone knew that the winning fighter had to be depicted using the spear overhand...

    After all even the much later tapestry of Bayeux is suspected not to show real life in every dirty realistic detail but an artistic expression of the events.
    Oh ho.

    First of all "ritual" is the archaeologist's get out excuse and the anathema of Dr Peter Reynolds's "Form follows function". In this case, the simplest explanation for consistent depiction of overhand spear use is that hoplites used the spear overhand - as here:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wikipedia has an article on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplite_formation_in_art

    The complaint is that the overhand thrust is less powerful than the underhand thrust. Notably, Hoplites are depicted using their spears underhand when out of formation. One plausible explanation is that in the tight phalanx formation there wasn't actually enough space to use the spear underhand without striking the man behind you.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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