The XYZelensky Affair and the Whole Impeachment Shebang

[Montmorency]

Might as well have a thread.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conten...ied09.2019.pdf
https://www.lawfareblog.com/timeline...kraine-scandal
(Note that this was not a transcript but a summary "memorandum" of a 30-minute call.)


But again, this was being reported since as far back as April and Trump commits and repeats impeachable offenses on an ongoing basis. Do you masochists find this more entertaining than reading progressive Democrats' sweeping new antipoverty package?

[Greyblades]

Better hope this goes nowhere, dont think the dems will survive giving trump a clinton boost.

Not that they arent shaking themselves apart as it is.

[CrossLOPER]

Might as well have a thread.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conten...ied09.2019.pdf
https://www.lawfareblog.com/timeline...kraine-scandal
(Note that this was not a transcript but a summary "memorandum" of a 30-minute call.)


But again, this was being reported since as far back as April and Trump commits and repeats impeachable offenses on an ongoing basis. Do you masochists find this more entertaining than reading progressive Democrats' sweeping new antipoverty package?

I think someone forgot it was their turn to babysit Trump. I guess that it was their reasoning that no one takes him seriously, so he couldn't possibly do any harm.

Better hope this goes nowhere, dont think the dems will survive giving trump a clinton boost.

Not that they arent shaking themselves apart as it is.

I like how you finally gave into the "showing it to the libtards" mentality. You can't get your stupid way, so the best way to deal with it is a protracted temper tantrum.

[Montmorency]

I think someone forgot it was their turn to babysit Trump. I guess that it was their reasoning that no one takes him seriously, so he couldn't possibly do any harm.

No, it indicates that the old narrative of "adults in the room" mitigating Trump's impulses is now thoroughly bogus, if it was ever anything other than horsecrap. Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, apparently the Attorney General, and any number of other upper-level officials watched - at best passively watched along - as Trump engaged in this and other banana republic lawlessness. There is no White House, only Trump.

I'm still upset over losing my other post.

[Greyblades]

I like how you finally gave into the "showing it to the libtards" mentality. You can't get your stupid way, so the best way to deal with it is a protracted temper tantrum.

I like how you have remained determined to not react to what I have actually said but instead what you seem to want to believe I have said.

Your side is doomed, I'm getting my way and I am gloating. No tantrum here.

[CrossLOPER]

I like how you have remained determined to not react to what I have actually said but instead what you seem to want to believe I have said.

It borders on "woohoo dem lebturds r gettin a likkin", so I didn't respond; there was nothing to respond to.

Your side is doomed, I'm getting my way and I am gloating. No tantrum here.

I would like to point out that "my side" wants things like global stability and standards ensuring sustainability, as well as general equality. Your side appears to include blond orangutans screaming about- you know what? I'm not sure anymore. Brexit would objectively weaken the UK and complicate the EU-US union, which would weaken both in terms of being able to counter the RF and PRC.

If "your side" wants this, then I guess you are actively working against the interests of your country.

[Montmorency]

It is impossible that the whistle-blower is a hero and I’m not. And I will be the hero! These morons—when this is over, I will be the hero!

Once my mayor, now someone about to have a closeup of their gaping eyes as they die in an anime.

[spmetla]

I just gotta hope that the inquiry gets people from within the White House and forces them to corroborate the memo and whistle blower's report as well as perhaps the actual transcript that was sent to the more classified server. If the impeachment vote goes forward but on essentially party lines within the House I don't think the Republican Senators would dare break rank and give enough votes to remove POTUS from office.

It'll be interesting if the WH tries to use executive privilege to protect itself from an Impeachment investigation. It shouldn't stand as there is precedent from previous impeachment trials but still, convention hasn't been the norm with Trump in office.

I'll also hope that they do more closed door inquires if possible. While I'd like to see and hear the soundbites as well I'd much rather have the different committees and the people being questioned not working to get the right soundbite to add in the evening news or get a positive tweet from the president.

[rory_20_uk]

The simple fact that Republicans are prepared to tolerate almost any amount of scandal to keep power means that this whole process is close to theatre.

[Greyblades]

The simple fact that Republicans are prepared to tolerate almost any amount of scandal to keep power means that this whole process is close to theatre.

Its what happens when the cry of wolf is sounded constantly for three years over worse scandals (ones that prove false positives more often than not by the by) without provoking this action. The less stalwart republicans have learned to suppress the instinct to preemptively condemn trump and now wait for confirmation of legitimacy of scandal before reacting.

I'll be suprised if they can even get all of the non safe seat democrats to vote for it now the chips have fallen into yet another "kinda sorta if you shake your head and squint" issue.

[rory_20_uk]

Its what happens when the cry of wolf is sounded constantly for three years without actually taking action. The less stalwart republicans have learned to suppress the instinct to preemptively condemn trump and now wait for confirmation of legitimacy of scandal before reacting.

I'll be suprised if they can even get all of the non safe seat democrats to vote for it now.

Indeed - to paraphrase Stalin - A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.

I would imagine that the majority in the USA are numb from the sheer number of things that for most others would have led an individual to resign. Everyone is realising that all you have to do is live in the moment - don't let what you said slow you down and what, in fact, can stop you? Where previously even the whiff of a scandal would have led to a nomination to the Supreme Court be removed - why should that be the case? Is lying a crime? After all, who knows what the truth is?

So it is all scandal. And equally all normal. I've seen people say the Muller report found nothing. In fact it found plenty but it was not the place to action - that is for Congress.

I can well sympathise with the apathy - as long as the Senate is Republican, Trump will stay since they know Bill Clinton benefited from the whole process - as if screwing an intern and lying about it could be considered a "crime"!

[Greyblades]

The word scandal has become like a swear word, use it rarely with good cause the impact is immense, use it often over nothing and soon noone gives a .

[Montmorency]

The word you're looking for is "fascism." A scandal is an episode of wrongdoing. Trump and the Republican Party are dismantling the government.

[Greyblades]

"Fascism", Another word that has become meaningless by incessant misuse, along with "racism", "sexism", "homophobia", "xenophobia", "transphobia", "islamaphobia", "anti-semitism" and of course "impeachable".

[Pannonian]

"Fascism", Another word that has become meaningless by incessant misuse, along with "racism", "sexism", "homophobia", "xenophobia", "transphobia", "islamaphobia", "anti-semitism" and of course "impeachable".

Here's another word: tyranny. In its classical definition, getting more and more like what's going on in the UK, perhaps not as far along in the US, but looking like a common MO of Bannonite politics.

[rory_20_uk]

Here's another word: tyranny. In its classical definition, getting more and more like what's going on in the UK, perhaps not as far along in the US, but looking like a common MO of Bannonite politics.

How many days since the Supreme Court ruling overturned the Government and Parliament was reopened? How many times has Boris had his plans voted down?

Just to be clear - who is the tyrant in the UK?

[Pannonian]

How many days since the Supreme Court ruling overturned the Government and Parliament was reopened? How many times has Boris had his plans voted down?

Just to be clear - who is the tyrant in the UK?

We're seeing threats of violence from the right. Does that count towards the definition of tyranny?

[rory_20_uk]

We're seeing threats of violence from the right. Does that count towards the definition of tyranny?

No... That's if anything anarchy.

And how safe does a country have to be before a few posts online is viewed as tyranny?

[Greyblades]

In this decade? Where some representatives's greatest concern while walking in the halls of the mighty is online trolling and harsh language?

[CrossLOPER]

We're seeing threats of violence from the right. Does that count towards the definition of tyranny?

I may actually go with rory and greymaids on this one. After what happened to the Leave Campaign after the referendum, I don't think anyone has any concrete plan to do anything except take the money and run away to Russia.

[Montmorency]

I agree that fascists reject the normal communicative function of language.

I may actually go with rory and greymaids on this one. After what happened to the Leave Campaign after the referendum, I don't think anyone has any concrete plan to do anything except take the money and run away to Russia.

I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread, but the point is that the politicians of one major American party, for the sake of unlimited political power and out of fear of their constituents, are willing to tolerate their president using his office for political gain and personal enrichment while ruthlessly violating the law and eliminating or suborning the career civil service in favor of party flunkies and personal loyalists. They support him and themselves by restricting the electoral access of the lower-class and non-white when not committing outright electoral fraud. It is the continuation of an explicit generational project to capture the institutions of government and it has been wildly successful. In other words, the entire right-wing of the most powerful country in the world is a criminal junta and a conspiracy to seize power.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm honestly scared now at the lengths Trump will go to prevent losing.

[Montmorency]

I'm honestly scared now at the lengths Trump will go to prevent losing.

Are you still surprised? You shouldn't be.

Here's a helpful heuristic: Whatever bad shit you see them doing at any given moment, it will necessarily, dialectically get worse because they haven't reached the logical conclusion at the confluence of their goals and methods.

Please, please, remember, for now and for 10 years from now, if there's nothing else you will remember of our interactions: The worst-case scenario is the likeliest scenario.

"There is no bottom" etc.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'm honestly scared now at the lengths Trump will go to prevent losing.

Worry when you see a repeal of the two-term limitation pass one of the houses of Congress. All the sturm and drang Trump may care to deliver does not carry with a majority of the electorate, only his rabidly supportive 30%. I have no fears of a civil war or a race war and we are too aware of "wag the dog" conflicts as political tools to be snowed under by that (Note: Monty will likely assert that GWB's administration did just that in 2003 with the poorly reviewed (at best) evidence on Sadam Hussein's efforts at MDW; I would assert that that is one of the reasons WHY that card would be tough to play again right now).

[a completely inoffensive name]

Worry when you see a repeal of the two-term limitation pass one of the houses of Congress. All the sturm and drang Trump may care to deliver does not carry with a majority of the electorate, only his rabidly supportive 30%. I have no fears of a civil war or a race war and we are too aware of "wag the dog" conflicts as political tools to be snowed under by that (Note: Monty will likely assert that GWB's administration did just that in 2003 with the poorly reviewed (at best) evidence on Sadam Hussein's efforts at MDW; I would assert that that is one of the reasons WHY that card would be tough to play again right now).

This is such insane levels of cowardice masked as caution.

The dude is clearly strong-arming other countries to influence our election in his favor. You say worry when Congress starts dismantling the Constitution? Jesus man, you might as well ask people to take a day off when the illegals are executed in the streets.

[Greyblades]

You're edging on hysterical.

[a completely inoffensive name]

You're edging on hysterical.

I just understand the road this leads to, and you know where it goes as well.

[Crandar]

Support for impeachment increases, independents included, so I'm not sure that the failure to impeach Donald will harm the Democrats. An interesting perspective on the issue:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is such insane levels of cowardice masked as caution.

The dude is clearly strong-arming other countries to influence our election in his favor. You say worry when Congress starts dismantling the Constitution? Jesus man, you might as well ask people to take a day off when the illegals are executed in the streets.

I said it that way because it ain't gonna happen. People are reacting to this asshat as though the system will let him roll over and declare a dictatorship by fiat. Our system, culture, and outlook won't permit such absent a civil war. And if he somehow managed to inspire his yahoo 30% to take up arms they would lose. Instead, he probably loses in November and flitters away into the twitterverse in mid-January 2021.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is such insane levels of cowardice masked as caution.

The dude is clearly strong-arming other countries to influence our election in his favor. You say worry when Congress starts dismantling the Constitution? Jesus man, you might as well ask people to take a day off when the illegals are executed in the streets.

And you can shove the 'cowardice' comment sideways up your own orifice of your choice.