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Thread: UK General Election 2019

  1. #391
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    tedious, Monty. tedious.

    there are hundreds of pages of this here on the backroom, and you wish me to recap all this on behalf of all the people with all their various motivations on why they are so foolish as to hold views which you do not share.

    tedious.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  2. #392
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    tedious, Monty. tedious.

    there are hundreds of pages of this here on the backroom, and you wish me to recap all this on behalf of all the people with all their various motivations on why they are so foolish as to hold views which you do not share.

    tedious.
    It's Christmas, your time is better spent.
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  3. #393

    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    tedious, Monty. tedious.

    there are hundreds of pages of this here on the backroom, and you wish me to recap all this on behalf of all the people with all their various motivations on why they are so foolish as to hold views which you do not share.

    tedious.
    I've read many of those tedious pages, but I'm not skimming them to see if you've got answers to what I'm asking. They don't to my recollection. If you don't want to spend time recapitulating something you think is already out there, that's perfectly reasonable - there are no obligations here. But it's also reasonable for me to speak from my awareness.

    Recently the Canadian government expanded its price controls on pharmaceuticals in order to reduce their ongoing problem with expensive drugs (the Canadian Medicare does not cover prescription drugs). To my mind such a policy is justifiable insofar as it is a basically costless measure to reduce the burden of healthcare on Canadians, several millions of whom practice rationing or non-compliance with treatment due to cost. It's not that complicated; but no one can say it's merely because I love price controls.

    From all the reasoning on your priorities that you're revealing, what can I even tell? That you want a state capable of getting its hands dirty, but not of getting them clean?
    Vitiate Man.

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  4. #394
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    A kind reminder to all of the patrons here - personal attacks are under no form tolerated. No way, nada, nothing. This is the Backroom and tempers flare, but once we step into personal accusations the banhammer will fly swiftly.

    I kindly encourage you take a step back for reflection, a little breather of sorts, and to continue the political discussions afterwards.

    I thank you all for keeping the Org a civilised place of discussion.
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  5. #395

    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Some final notes on the UK election.

    Take a look at these amazing vote demographics (by age).

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    Something similar across the pond.

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    Some impressive bias from major media against Labour. Idaho, do you have any comment on this?

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    Something similar across the pond.

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    Donald Trump succeeded in shaping the election agenda. Coverage of Trump overwhelmingly outperformed coverage of Clinton. Clinton’s coverage was focused on scandals, while Trump’s coverage focused on his core issues.

    Meanwhile, I belatedly learned that between 1833 and 2015 the British government was paying off loans related to compensation to slave-owners for abolition of slavery.

    That is to say, nearly two centuries in hock for reparations to slavers. This is the part where I get flashing mad. Not at the reparations, per se. For all I know the government did what it had to do. Ideally the following would have been the proper response to any demands for compensation (actually highly apropos video reference) -



    But maybe there just wasn't sufficient power to impose such a resolution. If that were the case, reparations to slavers would be tolerable as a compromise to get things done, despite the the long-term fiscal imposition onto the public. The maddening part is the parallel dismissal of reparations to the slaves themselves, the actual victims who of course were in no socioeconomic position to demand concessions from anyone. Apparently it's always a matter of who can get away with what (flashback to Great Recession stimulus).


    Probably unrelated to anything at all, I liked this article on conservatism.

    https://www.dissentmagazine.org/arti...an-progressive

    This is what holds together all the myriad failures of conservative politics: a devotion to first principles that simply must be true, whatever the consequences, and whatever the human suffering left in their aftermath.
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    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  6. #396
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Johnson rejects Sturgeon's indyref2 demand

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    A very good response IMO.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


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  7. #397
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Johnson quoting promises. Only in politics eh?

    I think that England should have a referendum whether we want to subsidise the outliers. France is no longer a Catholic who will invade from the North. We can still be friends in the Commonwealth, of course.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  8. #398
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Incidentally I wasnt sure if I should put it here or in the UK politics thread, seeing as both were around the same level of buried, probably should have put it there in retrospect.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 01-14-2020 at 15:19.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


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  9. #399
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Interesting perspective on those who lost seats.

    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politi...st-their-seats
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.

    A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?

  10. #400
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Boris Johnson signed contract giving Dominic Cummings 'jurisdiction' over government projects

    Dominic Cummings asked Boris Johnson to sign a contract giving him special powers in Downing Street, The Telegraph has learned.

    Although employed under the lowly title of "assistant to the Prime Minister", Mr Cummings is understood to have a special agreement, believed to carry Mr Johnson’s signature, spelling out his authority over special advisers (SpAds).

    It also confirms his jurisdiction over other government projects such as ARPA, the Tories’ pledge to recreate the United States’ Advanced Research Projects Agency in Britain.
    What do Tory voters make of this?

  11. #401
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Does no one care that the power in the UK government lies with an unelected adviser who has already removed one chancellor and who has a signed contract giving him formal political powers?

  12. #402
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Does no one care that the power in the UK government lies with an unelected adviser who has already removed one chancellor and who has a signed contract giving him formal political powers?
    To the extent that he was brought in on the back of his enthusiasm for creating high-performance orgamisations, then this:

    "It also confirms his jurisdiction over other government projects such as ARPA, the Tories’ pledge to recreate the United States’ Advanced Research Projects Agency in Britain."

    Does not worry me in the slightest. It is in fact WHY I want him in government.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  13. #403
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    To the extent that he was brought in on the back of his enthusiasm for creating high-performance orgamisations, then this:

    "It also confirms his jurisdiction over other government projects such as ARPA, the Tories’ pledge to recreate the United States’ Advanced Research Projects Agency in Britain."

    Does not worry me in the slightest. It is in fact WHY I want him in government.
    And the special adviser who think the UK does not need a farming and fishing industry? If voters want to get rid of these people, what can they do?

  14. #404
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    ... have an election.

    but i do see your point, really, because we've just had an election and the opposition don't seem very good** at them!




    ** by which i mean 'winning them', and they bear every hallmark of being an excellent opposition for some time to come!
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  15. #405
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    To the extent that he was brought in on the back of his enthusiasm for creating high-performance orgamisations, then this:

    "It also confirms his jurisdiction over other government projects such as ARPA, the Tories’ pledge to recreate the United States’ Advanced Research Projects Agency in Britain."
    This has got to be a scam. The Brits already had an ARPA equivalent, DERA, which was promptly privatised out to Qinetiq in 2001.
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  16. #406
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    This has got to be a scam. The Brits already had an ARPA equivalent, DERA, which was promptly privatised out to Qinetiq in 2001.
    gov't R&D labs are not a novelty, what was (and is) was the management culture of arpa.
    this is what cummings professes to care about.
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  17. #407
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Unelected advisor wants to clear out other unelected advisors, seeing as any authority would come from the elected prime minister I dont see much of a problem of principle.

    As for the advisors being cleared out it depends on the department, considering the atrocities of the home office last twenty five years I think an purge is definitely in order, get rid of the bastards who went along with Theresa May and Amber Rudd's tenure of supressing speech and ignoring rape based on the religion of the perpetrator.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-03-2020 at 00:14.
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  18. #408
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    gov't R&D labs are not a novelty, what was (and is) was the management culture of arpa.
    this is what cummings professes to care about.
    DERA/DRA only lasted 10 years before selling off basically everything but the NBC labs. Not really sure how you try to instill a research culture like DARPA when there is a poor track record of long-term commitment. How long will this new lab last when NHS funding is short (moreso than usual) or some other treasury shortfall occurs? Or some powerful politician wants to cash in on a government funded "startup"?

    I'm not arguing about it's usefulness, you should definitely have a research agency like DARPA. I'm just suspicious of the motives...
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  19. #409
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    i see something that needs to be done, and someone determined to try.
    i'm willing to give him a shot.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  20. #410
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Unelected advisor wants to clear out other unelected advisors, seeing as any authority would come from the elected prime minister I dont see much of a problem of principle.

    As for the advisors being cleared out it depends on the department, considering the atrocities of the home office last twenty five years I think an purge is definitely in order, get rid of the bastards who went along with Theresa May and Amber Rudd's tenure of supressing speech and ignoring rape based on the religion of the perpetrator.
    Don't forget the deporting of law-abiding Commonwealth Citizens.
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  21. #411
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    this is a good look at the ambition:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...mmings/607363/
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  22. #412

    Default Re: UK Election 2019

    Any way you slice it, this looks pretty bad for the Tories.
    https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ads-misleading

    It's the one-two punch.

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    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
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